Game Thread - Tennessee Lady Vols vs #2 Shady Trees & Referees

[lvocd]

Women's basketball is getting more and more physical every season it seems, but it feels to me like maybe some of the better top-ranked programs' coaches are now coaching the back pushes on box outs. Used to be that an occasional push-off would happen, but I sure do think a lot more coaches are taking the "we'll push hard in their backs, shove them aside on drives, and grab arms as often and aggressively as we can until it hurts us" -- knowing that officials are simply not calling it most of the time.

Thing is, I don't think Tennessee is taking advantage of the new normal as much as they probably should. Yes, our players do some of it, sometimes, but it feels more like a mistake instead of a strategy.

It just felt so obvious to me that Stanford has been practicing going as far as they possibly can without hurting someone, and I can't be mad at them for it. I want to try to find some other Stanford games from this season to see if my theory holds up.

 

[youcancallmeAl]

Good day VolNation,
I have been registered for a while now but decided to post today after watching the Lady Vols vs Stanford. I have been a life long lady vols fan but this team need a coach who can install an offense and coach defense. Also, her judgement in keeping certain players on the floor is very poor. Powell was constantly getting beaten back door by the much bigger guard Jones yet she kept her in. When she did take her out, she brings in Jordan Walker smh. Kaiya Wynn is a much better defender than both Walker and Powell. Coach Harper kills the momentum of her team with her constant substitution patterns. She didn’t kill Stanford momentum by calling a timeout early in their run in the 4th quarter.. Rickea was the reason you got the 8 point lead in the second quarter and you took her out the game.. I love Kelly Harper as a player for Pat Summit Lady Vols but not as the coach of this team. This team desperately need an offensive system, it’s just individual ball. Too many forced shots and terrible team defense. How can you not coach your team to defend back door passes which is a staple of Stanford’s triangle offense? I’m not bashing coach Harper in any way, the evidence is clear in the performances of this team against ranked opponents. Without an offensive system and great team defense, this team will not make the sweet 16 this year. She needs to let Rickea play so that she can get into a rhythm. I will not be surprise if many of the players on this team decide to leave. I’m pulling for the lady Vols but coach Harper need to get it together. Pat Summit went to the Chicago Bulls to see Tex Winter and Phil Jackson in the 1990’s to learn the triple post offense and taught it to her lady Vols teams. This Lady Vols team doesn’t have an offensive system and it has been killing this team the past 3 years..

Don't we already have a thread for the Stanford game? How come you didn't post this there instead of creating a second Stanford game thread? i'm gonna ignore this one from now on and go back to the real thread.

 

[glv98]

Women's basketball is getting more and more physical every season it seems, but it feels to me like maybe some of the better top-ranked programs' coaches are now coaching the back pushes on box outs. Used to be that an occasional push-off would happen, but I sure do think a lot more coaches are taking the "we'll push hard in their backs, shove them aside on drives, and grab arms as often and aggressively as we can until it hurts us" -- knowing that officials are simply not calling it most of the time.

Thing is, I don't think Tennessee is taking advantage of the new normal as much as they probably should. Yes, our players do some of it, sometimes, but it feels more like a mistake instead of a strategy.

It just felt so obvious to me that Stanford has been practicing going as far as they possibly can without hurting someone, and I can't be mad at them for it. I want to try to find some other Stanford games from this season to see if my theory holds up.

Safe to assume everyone wants to play as physically as possible without getting a foul called. Maybe wily ole Tara and staff are better at assessing where the boundary lies.

 

[allenfan1]

Hey George welcome…..if you wanted to express your disdain for Kellie, we have a wholeeee thread for that already. With 3000000 post similar to this one. You should post more often.

I agree that it is about time that Rickea is placed back in the starting lineup. Rickea and Jordan H are a formidable force. These two need to play 30 or more minutes per game. GBO.

I agree with everything you said. I think it is time to worry about making the tournament instead of the sweet 16. Keeping your best player on the bench for extended periods of time makes no sense . The last game it was almost half time before she came in, and how do you even compare her with the starter Darby, slow as molasses and has not proved to be a great 3 point threat. Game preparation has been awful, and never a play out of a timeout to get a basket. Turn loose of some of the money and hire us an SEC Coach

 

[youcancallmeAl]

I hope those who doubted Key's value to this team defensively watched all of this game. The Stanford bigs had their way with us offensively. We are a completely different team defensively without her. We are going to have to figure out how to play without her. From my vantage point, we're making good progress but still not there.

 

[LasVegasBill23]

towards the end of the game, they were probably playing in defense-mode
by then the team probably didn't have confidence in the refs ever calling it clean
I'd be playing with a chip on my shoulder at the end too

but also sorry you feel this way
thanks for the input

It is fine.... I really have no axe to grind...... and we did play a pretty good game.....

 

[LasVegasBill23]

i counted 6-7 of Stanfords (box outs) as actually being pushes in the back. One of them (Belibi) i believe sent players flying out of bounds 2-3 times and nothing was called but the same play was called an offensive foul on us. I'm sure they missed calls on both ends but something that's not up for debate is Brink should of had a tech when she blocked Rickea and then turned in her face and talked ish...

If that was our player (Rickea) it would have been a tech and an unending amount of criticism about her attitude. Rickea kept her cool with her being that close in her face... Good on her

yes as I have already responded to Coach, I sincerely wish I had said nothing..... I take back what I said, and will leave the volleying to others....

we played well today.... very happy for that

 

[Volfan1000]

Stanford played very physically in this game like Arisona did in the men's game last night.

The Pac 12 is a lot more physical than I thought it would be.

 

[Voluble2]

Safe to assume everyone wants to play as physically as possible without getting a foul called. Maybe wily ole Tara and staff are better at assessing where the boundary lies.

If that were the case then it would be the same boundary line for both teams.

It wasn't.

 

[LasVegasBill23]

Women's basketball is getting more and more physical every season it seems, but it feels to me like maybe some of the better top-ranked programs' coaches are now coaching the back pushes on box outs. Used to be that an occasional push-off would happen, but I sure do think a lot more coaches are taking the "we'll push hard in their backs, shove them aside on drives, and grab arms as often and aggressively as we can until it hurts us" -- knowing that officials are simply not calling it most of the time.

Thing is, I don't think Tennessee is taking advantage of the new normal as much as they probably should. Yes, our players do some of it, sometimes, but it feels more like a mistake instead of a strategy.

It just felt so obvious to me that Stanford has been practicing going as far as they possibly can without hurting someone, and I can't be mad at them for it. I want to try to find some other Stanford games from this season to see if my theory holds up.

well i think one thing we all can agree on is that WCBB referring sux and it has for some time.... is improvement on the horizon? I think not

and that is too bad

 

[mudcat1973]

6 losses (8 losses assuming UConn and USC), that leaves very little wiggle room to drop more games in league play and a early exit in SECT.

vols should first top 4 sec teams regerlar season that get them in . but need top 25 win to have chance for top 4 seed ncaa

 

[Lucy]

I agree with everything you said. I think it is time to worry about making the tournament instead of the sweet 16. Keeping your best player on the bench for extended periods of time makes no sense . The last game it was almost half time before she came in, and how do you even compare her with the starter Darby, slow as molasses and has not proved to be a great 3 point threat. Game preparation has been awful, and never a play out of a timeout to get a basket. Turn loose of some of the money and hire us an SEC Coach

Let’s face it. Kellie is damned if she does and damned if she doesn’t! There has been an unbelievable amount of bitching and moaning on here about Kellie no being tough enough! “If I were coach I would do blah, blah (fill in the blank with some stupid discipline Knute Rockne would have used) to (fill in the blank, our crabby a$$ fan base has a couple of favorites to beat up on).”
And now, predictably, there is whining about Kellie not starting and playing a kid 30+ minutes that she is apparently working with regarding practice habits.
Make up your mind people!

 

[creekdipper]

I noticed that last year we lost to Stanford by 9 at Thomson-Boling (our first loss)...but what stood out was that they led in that game by as much as 20 points. Today was far more competitive the whole way and showed massive improvement...and without Tamari to keep Brink in check.

 

[LV renaissance]

Let’s face it. Kellie is damned if she does and damned if she doesn’t! There has been an unbelievable amount of bitching and moaning on here about Kellie no being tough enough! “If I were coach I would do blah, blah (fill in the blank with some stupid discipline Knute Rockne would have used) to (fill in the blank, our crabby a$$ fan base has a couple of favorites to beat up on).”
And now, predictably, there is whining about Kellie not starting and playing a kid 30+ minutes that she is apparently working with regarding practice habits.
Make up your mind people!

Let’s face it. Kellie is damned if she does and damned if she doesn’t! There has been an unbelievable amount of bitching and moaning on here about Kellie no being tough enough! “If I were coach I would do blah, blah (fill in the blank with some stupid discipline Knute Rockne would have used) to (fill in the blank, our crabby a$$ fan base has a couple of favorites to beat up on).”
And now, predictably, there is whining about Kellie not starting and playing a kid 30+ minutes that she is apparently working with regarding practice habits.
Make up your mind people!

I am not sure if Kellie will work out in the long run or not, but I totally respect the strength of what she is doing in setting goals and limits with RJ. With some of the complaining about it here, you would think that we were playing great until RJ was held out, but in fact we have played better as a team since then. If RJ comes around under Kellie's guidance, then we will then have the team we have been waiting for. Kellie has sacrificed in the short term for more important long-term goals. Not may leaders do this anymore.

 

[Darth_Vol]

So RJ's 6-13 has you upset more than JH's 7-24. Who took a ton of shots? This is not to down JH, but RJ did not take a "ton of shots". I wish she had been in enough to take more. Exactly what we needed today was someone who could hit a shot down the stretch. I believe RJ could have.

Death, taxes, Horston playing like trash in a big game. RJ needs to be this team's go-to player down the stretch...

 

[Darth_Vol]

With some of the complaining about it here, you would think that we were playing great until RJ was held out, but in fact we have played better as a team since then.

Or maybe you're singling out the wrong player. One could make an even stronger case that they are playing better since Key left the lineup, yet with all the complaining about not having her in this game you would think Tennessee was undefeated when she was playing.

Fact is, the team looked pretty good when RJ was in. Maybe she should get more than 20 minutes or, dare I say, starting?

 

[Mr.Vol2U]

This team was, IIRC, the best or 2nd best rebounding team in the country last year, and brought back everyone except Rae Burrell, and added a bunch of talent in the portal. It just doesn’t make sense how much we’ve regressed in that department. Yes, losing Key hurt, but this team already wasn’t nearly as good on the boards as last year even when she was playing.

Wrong we lost Kenyen Green who rebounded well and we also lost Snoop who was the best rebounder on the team

 

[volnationnj]

She should not talk about it none of our businrss

A couple of years ago, I was right with you. But I have to say, NIL makes a difference.
It's been rumored that each of the LV starters "earn" a minimum of $75,000 each, through NIL. If this is remotely accurate, and when added to their free ride at UT, then, quite frankly, they are no longer "amateurs". I realize that many are not even 21 years old yet, but when you accept that kind of money to play, it puts you in an entirely different category.
You gain monetary success but lose some personal privacy.

 

[volnationnj]

Or maybe you're singling out the wrong player. One could make an even stronger case that they are playing better since Key left the lineup, yet with all the complaining about not having her in this game you would think Tennessee was undefeated when she was playing.

Fact is, the team looked pretty good when RJ was in. Maybe she should get more than 20 minutes or, dare I say, starting?

What I need a clarification of is...
If Jackson is allowed to play, why play only half a game ?
She is obviously their best offensive player. Is she physically incapable of playing more than 20 minutes ? Is she so poor in the other aspects of the game (e.g. rebounding, defense, passing) that it more than offsets her scoring ability ?
I'll have to watch the game again and focus on Jackson's individual play.

 

[Volfaninfl2]

So RJ's 6-13 has you upset more than JH's 7-24. Who took a ton of shots? This is not to down JH, but RJ did not take a "ton of shots". I wish she had been in enough to take more. Exactly what we needed today was someone who could hit a shot down the stretch. I believe RJ could have.

In 34:35 minutes, Horston made 8 of 24 shots 19 points (30%). In almost half the time, 19:28 minutes, Rickea made 6 of 13 shots 14 points (46%). Walker played 24:05 minutes, had 1 assist, and scored 2 points.

Horston does so much good in the game before the final minutes of a close game, but at that point, neither she nor Walker needs to be shooting. In the final minutes of this game, the Gonzaga game, and the Virginia Tech games, Horston either 1. missed shots, 2. made poor decisions, or 3. had a turnover, sometimes all 3. Some think she’s tired or tight, and that may be, but the results are the same. At the end of close games, Horston needs to focus on what she does best, rebounding, and Rickea or Sara or anyone shooting well, needs to be taking the shots. If Rickea got tired today, she needs to become strong enough to play more minutes. When she gets rolling, she seems unstoppable.

No one really thought our team would beat Stanford on Stanford’s floor. When we tied at halftime, and later when we went ahead, I was ecstatic. Since we came so close, that made the ending more painful, but our team proved to us, and to themselves, they can play with anyone. They should hold their heads high, because no one is going to overlook the game they have to play against the Lady Vols.

 

[Coach Jumper]

What I need a clarification of is...
If Jackson is allowed to play, why play only half a game ?
She is obviously their best offensive player. Is she physically incapable of playing more than 20 minutes ? Is she so poor in the other aspects of the game (e.g. rebounding, defense, passing) that it more than offsets her scoring ability ?
I'll have to watch the game again and focus on Jackson's individual play.

we do not know what the infraction was
we do not know what the reprimand entails
The amount of and timing of RJ's playing time to get back in good graces will ultimately subside
(hopefully SOON)

What we do know is this team
as it is can compete with the #2 team in the land and did

Both Coach K and RK will get this thing worked out
For the sake of the team, it can't be about each other winning this battle, it has to be about both fighting the same fight

 

[Majors]

Up 8 in the 3rd, lost by 7

year 4 we should be winning benchmark games not excited to compete

 

[glv98]

Up 8 in the 3rd, lost by 7

year 4 we should be winning benchmark games not excited to compete

I worked in health care. A patient is far sicker than you thought they would be when they were admitted. Now they're finally getting better. But the focus is on "yeah but they never should have been this sick"?

Pretty sure both things can be true at the same time. Of course we're shocked things got this bad. Does that mean we can't be happy it's finally getting better?

Of course we want full healing. But rfor now we're happy the trend is in the right direction.

 

[Majors]

I worked in health care. A patient is far sicker than you thought they would be when they were admitted. Now they're finally getting better. But the focus is on "yeah but they never should have been this sick"?

Pretty sure both things can be true at the same time. Of course we're shocked things got this bad. Does that mean we can't be happy it's finally getting better?

Of course we want full healing. But rfor now we're happy the trend is in the right direction.

We lost, again. Worst start in 40 years isn’t a trend/healing you want. Last year we lost by 9, this year we lost by 7. 12 point swing in the fourth.


For the breakdown of the losses being to “good” teams, this is still Tennessee. Nice way of spinning that we got past up by teams we used to beat.

 

[mudcat1973]

Let’s face it. Kellie is damned if she does and damned if she doesn’t! There has been an unbelievable amount of bitching and moaning on here about Kellie no being tough enough! “If I were coach I would do blah, blah (fill in the blank with some stupid discipline Knute Rockne would have used) to (fill in the blank, our crabby a$$ fan base has a couple of favorites to beat up on).”
And now, predictably, there is whining about Kellie not starting and playing a kid 30+ minutes that she is apparently working with regarding practice habits.
Make up your mind people!

you got some who want to horston plus jackson 30 mins one problem puckett,darby , marta have show they are improving. none of those should left for end of game mins. Jill ,karoline , frankin are sharing time at center. And if she plays three or four thirthy plus mins and does got nine champship and next year team sucks because she benchedd young players improving they stop improving the ones who got their way on two to four players most of the game will be in the bunch saying send kellie packing. for next year sucking. you never know who they might lose we lost key this year. last year was green,horston,rae not 100% So i like plan for play players who are improving. lets hope injury bug who bite lady vols back side in smaller this year than last year and bug does not got its way.