Gators Get It Right-Vols Should Too

#26
#26
PMC2726 said:
It appears many posters on here engage in selective reading. I'm fine with the O+W game being a scrimmage. It's how we APPROACH it that's the problem.

The O+W game does not simulate a game-day situation. When seniors pick the teams and their coaches, when sports writers are calling plays, there's not much benefit there. It's about having fun. It's about rewarding the players. It's about making the fans happy. It's about loving on the media. It has very little to do with getting better as a team.

Local Journalists Named Celebrity Head Coaches for Orange & White Game - UTSPORTS.COM - University of Tennessee Athletics

I simply have a hard time understanding how UT fans, who so desperately want and deserve to have their team compete on an elite level, are so casual about the way we waste an opportunity that could be used to get better. Maybe I view the world through a different lens, but I've always been taught that when the going gets tough, you don't take a break and have fun, you get after it. JMO.
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Its not like they're dancing through a field of flowers....They are still doing what they do every day and if they mess up, they will still hear about it. Just because its a fun, game situation doesn't mean that nothing is being taught or learned. As far as that article, it explains Dooleys whole tenure as a coach/teacher/motivator....a joke. With that said, those "celebrity" coaches are just like the queen of England, a talking figure head that doesn't actually do anything.
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#27
#27
Vol865 said:
Its not like they're dancing through a field of flowers....They are still doing what they do every day and if they mess up, they will still hear about it. Just because its a fun, game situation doesn't mean that nothing is being taught or learned. As far as that article, it explains Dooleys whole tenure as a coach/teacher/motivator....a joke. With that said, those "celebrity" coaches are just like the queen of England, a talking figure head that doesn't actually do anything.
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Also we only did that one year did we not? Wasn't the most recent ow game 1st string offense/2nd string defense vs 2nd string defense/1st string offense?
 
#28
#28
CNCVol88 said:
Also we only did that one year did we not? Wasn't the most recent ow game 1st string offense/2nd string defense vs 2nd string defense/1st string offense?
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Honestly that's the one thing I'd change. I want to see the best against the best
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#29
#29
PMC2726 said:
I've posted a few times about my displeasure regarding how we handle the O+W game. In short, IMHO (you are welcome to disagree, many have) with the limited number of practices and scrimmages we are allowed, the O+W game is a circus and therefore equals a wasted opportunity at a decent practice/scrimmage.

You can see my thread here: http://http://www.volnation.com/forum/tennessee-vols-football/127116-o-w-new-approach.html For those of you who don't care about the responses to my thread (and there were many on both sides of the fence) or are simply too lazy to click on the thread, here it is:



I dislike just about everything there is to dislike about Muschamp, but I think he is spot on when it comes to UF's spring game. Florida Gators make spring game a regular practice - ESPN

My hope is that CBJ takes a look at our situation and makes a similar decision. We cannot waste one practice playing around if we want to contend with the SEC elites again.

JMHO. :mf_surrender:
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Let me ask you this:

Do you think eliminating the distraction and hooplah of one scrimmage in the Spring will be enough to win us a game in September?

If the awnswer is yes, then I think you are overestimating the value of one scrimmage, as well as the magnitude of the distractions.

I would argue that putting the players in a real game situation is as effective as anything when we are 6 months from the first game.

There is also something to be said for keeping the fans and players excited.
 
#31
#31
Given a few years of success I would agree with the op, however, Tennessee fans need the energy provided by the orange and white game. JMO.
 
#32
#32
I think it's used as an incentive for the players who have busted their ass for months to play in front of our fans and in Neyland Stadium. It also puts a little more pressure on them to make that catch, block, tackle, etc when there are other people watching and not just the coaches or other players.
 
#33
#33
Ten_Titans said:
Let me ask you this:

Do you think eliminating the distraction and hooplah of one scrimmage in the Spring will be enough to win us a game in September?

If the awnswer is yes, then I think you are overestimating the value of one scrimmage, as well as the magnitude of the distractions.

I would argue that putting the players in a real game situation is as effective as anything when we are 6 months from the first game.

There is also something to be said for keeping the fans and players excited.
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I have a hard time answering your questions, b/c once again, I'm fine keeping it a scrimmage. I think scrimmages have a lot of value (for many of the reasons you and other folks have posted). By all means, invite the fans! Let there be distractions and hoopla -- there certainly is on game day. Just don't make a mockery of the scrimmage/practice -- take advantage of it for all it's worth. Yes, there is SOME value to the O+W game, but I don't think anyone is arguing that we get as much done as our other scrimmages and practices. The one thing the O+W game is not is a "real game situation".

I read your question more like this: "Do you really think that half-assing one scrimmage could lose us a game in September?" I would answer 100% yes. As much as you think I'm overestimating one scrimmage/practice, I think you are underestimating it. There are so few practices and scrimmages allowed by the NCAA, that each one is VERY scripted by the coaching staff. If the seniors are split in half, if the ones play the twos, etc., etc., we are not working on the things we need to work on to get better and that's a missed opportunity. It's like Muschamp said, we need good playing good. We don't need seniors playing freshman just for the sake of it. We don't need ones playing twos.

How many times did we practice something as basic as substitutions UNDER PRESSURE in DD's first year? I don't know that answer, but after the LSU game, would you agree that no matter how much or little we practiced substitutions, practicing it one more time might have been worthwhile? I would and so would the 15 players we had on the field when that game ended! IT COST US THE GAME.

There are no half days/half efforts for guys like Saban and Meyer. That's why they are champions. They expect the best and practice/scrimmage like the best every chance they get. We will not out-scheme the SEC elite. We will not out-talent the SEC elite. We can be more disciplined and tougher than the SEC elite and that will win us some games, but you have to practice/scrimmage that way.
 
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#35
#35
PMC2726 said:
I've posted a few times about my displeasure regarding how we handle the O+W game. In short, IMHO (you are welcome to disagree, many have) with the limited number of practices and scrimmages we are allowed, the O+W game is a circus and therefore equals a wasted opportunity at a decent practice/scrimmage.

You can see my thread here: http://http://www.volnation.com/forum/tennessee-vols-football/127116-o-w-new-approach.html For those of you who don't care about the responses to my thread (and there were many on both sides of the fence) or are simply too lazy to click on the thread, here it is:



I dislike just about everything there is to dislike about Muschamp, but I think he is spot on when it comes to UF's spring game. Florida Gators make spring game a regular practice - ESPN

My hope is that CBJ takes a look at our situation and makes a similar decision. We cannot waste one practice playing around if we want to contend with the SEC elites again.

JMHO. :mf_surrender:
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why is it that every year that there is always a few fans that argue, piss, moan, grip, or just b**** about having the O & W game? Everything I read on here pertaining to the game clearly shows alot of support for it. but you have that small minority gripping about it each year. Do they support it? Do they go to it? and if they do, do they enjoy it? In 55 years I've never been to one. I always make it up to at least a couple reg. season games each year. but this year I'm going to the O & W and I can't wait cause I'm going to enjoy the he!! out of it.
 
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#36
#36
Does mean that the 100k that's showing up should stay home since no game just practice?? Just a thought...lol
 
#37
#37
You're talking about practice...We talking about practice. Not a game. Not a game. We talking about practice. That's my best Allen Iverson impression.
 
#38
#38
if you think one practice is the problem you're like shaq at the free throw line.
 
#40
#40
In the Orange and White game we actually have a chance to win.......we need a win desperately!
 
#41
#41
PMC2726 said:
I have a hard time answering your questions, b/c once again, I'm fine keeping it a scrimmage. I think scrimmages have a lot of value (for many of the reasons you and other folks have posted). By all means, invite the fans! Let there be distractions and hoopla -- there certainly is on game day. Just don't make a mockery of the scrimmage/practice -- take advantage of it for all it's worth. Yes, there is SOME value to the O+W game, but I don't think anyone is arguing that we get as much done as our other scrimmages and practices. The one thing the O+W game is not is a "real game situation".

I read your question more like this: "Do you really think that half-assing one scrimmage could lose us a game in September?" I would answer 100% yes. As much as you think I'm overestimating one scrimmage/practice, I think you are underestimating it. There are so few practices and scrimmages allowed by the NCAA, that each one is VERY scripted by the coaching staff. If the seniors are split in half, if the ones play the twos, etc., etc., we are not working on the things we need to work on to get better and that's a missed opportunity. It's like Muschamp said, we need good playing good. We don't need seniors playing freshman just for the sake of it. We don't need ones playing twos.

How many times did we practice something as basic as substitutions UNDER PRESSURE in DD's first year? I don't know that answer, but after the LSU game, would you agree that no matter how much or little we practiced substitutions, practicing it one more time might have been worthwhile? I would and so would the 15 players we had on the field when that game ended! IT COST US THE GAME.

There are no half days/half efforts for guys like Saban and Meyer. That's why they are champions. They expect the best and practice/scrimmage like the best every chance they get. We will not out-scheme the SEC elite. We will not out-talent the SEC elite. We can be more disciplined and tougher than the SEC elite and that will win us some games, but you have to practice/scrimmage that way.
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Meh.. I doubt anyone will say... "Man, wish we practiced hard that one day in April" if we lose to Florida.

It would be different if you were implying that the spring game is a slippery slope for laziness and complacency, but I don't think either of us believe that to be the case.

One day does not a season make. One day in the spring more less? Lets not get carried away.

Also, don't underestimate a day to let the kids play loose and have some fun. That last paragraph you wrote is what DD fed his team last two years. It resulted in our players not having fun out there. More importantly, it resulted in players that were not trying to win, but were trying to not lose.

One thing Kiffin brought was some swag to a team that had none. Dooley took it away with shower gate, field trips, and his stupid warden attitude at games and practice.

Butch is trying to bring that back. Please let him.
 
#42
#42
dovervolz said:
why is it that every year that there is always a few fans that argue, piss, moan, grip, or just b**** about having the O & W game? Everything I read on here pertaining to the game clearly shows alot of support for it. but you have that small minority gripping about it each year. Do they support it? Do they go to it? and if they do, do they enjoy it? In 55 years I've never been to one. I always make it up to at least a couple reg. season games each year. but this year I'm going to the O & W and I can't wait cause I'm going to enjoy the he!! out of it.
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I can't speak for other fans, but for me, I enjoy the O+W game in years when we want to fire our coach for only winning 10 games the prior season. The pissing and moaning starts when we are fighting to stay out of last place in the SEC East.

I do support the O+W game. I do go to the O+W game. I do enjoy the O+W game! In 37 years, I've been to 6. I always make it to at least a couple reg. season games each year. This year I'm going as well and I can't wait because I'm going to enjoy he!! out of it too!
 
#43
#43
Boy... I bet that the gator fans are disappointed 😭. I hate that...Really if I was some dumb azz gator fan I would be pissed.
 
#44
#44
PMC2726 said:
I have a hard time answering your questions, b/c once again, I'm fine keeping it a scrimmage. I think scrimmages have a lot of value (for many of the reasons you and other folks have posted). By all means, invite the fans! Let there be distractions and hoopla -- there certainly is on game day. Just don't make a mockery of the scrimmage/practice -- take advantage of it for all it's worth. Yes, there is SOME value to the O+W game, but I don't think anyone is arguing that we get as much done as our other scrimmages and practices. The one thing the O+W game is not is a "real game situation".

I read your question more like this: "Do you really think that half-assing one scrimmage could lose us a game in September?" I would answer 100% yes. As much as you think I'm overestimating one scrimmage/practice, I think you are underestimating it. There are so few practices and scrimmages allowed by the NCAA, that each one is VERY scripted by the coaching staff. If the seniors are split in half, if the ones play the twos, etc., etc., we are not working on the things we need to work on to get better and that's a missed opportunity. It's like Muschamp said, we need good playing good. We don't need seniors playing freshman just for the sake of it. We don't need ones playing twos.

How many times did we practice something as basic as substitutions UNDER PRESSURE in DD's first year? I don't know that answer, but after the LSU game, would you agree that no matter how much or little we practiced substitutions, practicing it one more time might have been worthwhile? I would and so would the 15 players we had on the field when that game ended! IT COST US THE GAME.

There are no half days/half efforts for guys like Saban and Meyer. That's why they are champions. They expect the best and practice/scrimmage like the best every chance they get. We will not out-scheme the SEC elite. We will not out-talent the SEC elite. We can be more disciplined and tougher than the SEC elite and that will win us some games, but you have to practice/scrimmage that way.
Click to expand...

It's a game. Played by young men. A select few will go on to a payday. A vast majority will not. The O&W game has become a tradition that allows the fans a closer look at their upcoming team. It allows the team to show off some of their skills in front of their fans for the upcoming season. In other words, it's fun for the fans and the team. Take the bat out of your arse and go enjoy the spring game without dissecting what "another practice" will do.
 
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#45
#45
OW game is more than just a scrimmage. It's also a recruiting tool. Recruits do come to the game and they see the fans and players interact. It shows the family atmosphere we like to say exists at UT. It's a multi-purpose tool for the coaches. So I think giving up a little intensity for one practice is worth it. Besides, the real work is in the summer when everyone is on campus. You never know if one of the froshes is going to come in and compete immediately. That's when the true chemistry of the team is put together.
 
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#46
#46
Ten_Titans said:
Meh.. I doubt anyone will say... "Man, wish we practiced hard that one day in April" if we lose to Florida.

It would be different if you were implying that the spring game is a slippery slope for laziness and complacency, but I don't think either of us believe that to be the case.

One day does not a season make. One day in the spring more less? Lets not get carried away.

Also, don't underestimate a day to let the kids play loose and have some fun. That last paragraph you wrote is what DD fed his team last two years. It resulted in our players not having fun out there. More importantly, it resulted in players that were not trying to win, but were trying to not lose.

One thing Kiffin brought was some swag to a team that had none. Dooley took it away with shower gate, field trips, and his stupid warden attitude at games and practice.

Butch is trying to bring that back. Please let him.
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NAAIIILED IT!!!
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#47
#47
That's all about Derek Dooley, Not Butch Friggin Jones! Give the man a chance! He's already brought Swag back to the Hill. He's done more than Dooley has in the past 3 years! Go Big Damn Orange.
 
#48
#48
Ten_Titans said:
Meh.. I doubt anyone will say... "Man, wish we practiced hard that one day in April" if we lose to Florida.

It would be different if you were implying that the spring game is a slippery slope for laziness and complacency, but I don't think either of us believe that to be the case.

One day does not a season make. One day in the spring more less? Lets not get carried away.

Also, don't underestimate a day to let the kids play loose and have some fun. That last paragraph you wrote is what DD fed his team last two years. It resulted in our players not having fun out there. More importantly, it resulted in players that were not trying to win, but were trying to not lose.

One thing Kiffin brought was some swag to a team that had none. Dooley took it away with shower gate, field trips, and his stupid warden attitude at games and practice.

Butch is trying to bring that back. Please let him.
Click to expand...

Dooley had it totally mixed up -- he was no tyrant on the field and he was a total and complete douche to his team off the field. Letting them have fun in the O+W game, which is exactly what he did, didn't loosen anyone up or help cure the team's problems on or off the field (and the circus he put on didn't make him any less of a douche, even though we all love a good circus).

So far, Butch seems to have it right -- my impression is he is more demanding of his team on the field than DD AND more of a player's coach off the field. And I think that's a great step in the right direction for us -- I'm not against Butch bringing swagger and the team having fun off the field and playing loose on the field as a result. My hope, and the simple point of the thread, is that Butch continues the trend of using his practices to the fullest and demanding the most of his players on the field each and every time they lace it up, including for the O+W Game.
 
#49
#49
Weezer said:
OW game is more than just a scrimmage. It's also a recruiting tool. Recruits do come to the game and they see the fans and players interact. It shows the family atmosphere we like to say exists at UT. It's a multi-purpose tool for the coaches. So I think giving up a little intensity for one practice is worth it. Besides, the real work is in the summer when everyone is on campus. You never know if one of the froshes is going to come in and compete immediately. That's when the true chemistry of the team is put together.
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Why do you have to sacrifice intensity? Did you see the Ohio St. spring game last year? Packed house that was absolutely electric. Players interacted with fans and family both before and after. Recruits loved it.

This is what makes news and brings you recruits: Ohio State football circle drill before 2012 Spring Game - YouTube
 
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#50
#50
PMC2726 said:
I can't speak for other fans, but for me, I enjoy the O+W game in years when we want to fire our coach for only winning 10 games the prior season. The pissing and moaning starts when we are fighting to stay out of last place in the SEC East.

I do support the O+W game. I do go to the O+W game. I do enjoy the O+W game! In 37 years, I've been to 6. I always make it to at least a couple reg. season games each year. This year I'm going as well and I can't wait because I'm going to enjoy he!! out of it too!
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lol.. now this what i'd call irony. on one hand you talk about your displeasure with the O&W game and on the other hand you talk about going to , supporting it, and enjoying it. oh well, it is what it is. I'm going to leave west tenn at midnite fri before the game, drive 5 hours , get there early and enjoy every minute of the day that I can. Hope you have as much fun as I plan to.
 
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