Gay marriage debate

#27
#27
Panthro said:
I don't feel passionately either way on this issue. I don't think I would vote to allow gay marriage, but I think I'd feel like a jerk while doing that.
I have a buddy who is adamantly opposed to gay marriage because of religious reasons, but he's divorced, and doesn't get it when I point out that irony.
As for it being a choice, not sure I think it's a choice, but I definitely don't think it's something you're born with. I think some factors along the way lead individuals to prefer that lifestyle to the alternative. Just like, I don't think I was born to strongly prefer brunettes. Just along the way, I fell in love with Kelly Kapowski and Sam Micelli. Front that point on I've always found blondes as just not as attractive.
Then again, I'm not gay, so I recognize that there's a strong possibility that I don't know what I'm talking about. It's a rare occurrence, but it happens.
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Agree totally with you. I don't particularly understand why homosexuals need the term marriage over the unions they now possess. I just don't understand how anyone could believe its a choice. Can't imagine a reason strong enough for me to choose to switch teams.
 
#28
#28
all should just be recognized by govt as civil unions. If you want to have a religious ceremony then you're free to do that too
 
#29
#29
It's sad this is even a debate. Take religion out of the equation and the whole thing becomes much more simple think through.

Imagine that.
 
#31
#31
KiffinKiller said:
Agree totally with you. I don't particularly understand why homosexuals need the term marriage over the unions they now possess. I just don't understand how anyone could believe its a choice. Can't imagine a reason strong enough for me to choose to switch teams.
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You can also ask the same question to the religious right. Why to they need exclusive rights to 'marriage'. When talking to many Christians, they all pretty much say the same thing; marriage is their word. It's like they went out bought it.
 
#32
#32
Jaytrain5 said:
Do you choose to be attracted to women, or is it just natural for you?
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Being "natural for you" is hardly an argument for the notion that they're born with it. Speaking english comes natural to me.
I wasn't born with that, nor did I choose to speak it as a kid. My theory is that homosexuality is similar. Outside factors lead individuals down that road that may lead others down another.
 
#33
#33
RespectTradition said:
I think homosexuality is a sin. I don't think it is my right to tell you that you can't do it, just that you shouldn't. In the same vein, it is wrong for you to be able to tell me that I have to accept it. If I have a business and I give my employees benefits, I should not have to give marriage benefits to people that I don't think are actually married.
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so you are fine with recognizing any religion's marriage? If so then imagine you think a certain one is not truly a religion but a cult. Should you have to recognize that one or is it fine to discriminate there too?
 
#34
#34
Panthro said:
Being "natural for you" is hardly an argument for the notion that they're born with it. Speaking english comes natural to me.
I wasn't born with that, nor did I choose to speak it as a kid.
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Don't really see the comparison there.

I don't think sexuality is learned. I think it's natural. You're attracted to who you're attracted to.
 
#35
#35
Panthro said:
Being "natural for you" is hardly an argument for the notion that they're born with it. Speaking english comes natural to me.
I wasn't born with that, nor did I choose to speak it as a kid. My theory is that homosexuality is similar. Outside factors lead individuals down that road that may lead others down another.
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speaking English is a learned skill and absolutely not natural. Not sure I see any similarities
 
#37
#37
Jaytrain5 said:
Don't really see the comparison there.

I don't think sexuality is learned. I think it's natural. You're attracted to who you're attracted to.
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Just an example of how something can come natural to you, but not be something you were born with.
My argument is that sexual preference is something affected by outside factors somewhere along the way. Like with my earlier comment about my clear preference to brunettes over blondes. I wasn't born with that, I just really dug Alyssa Milano on Who's The Boss because she reminded me of a girl in my class. If I had been younger, I might have fallen for Stephanie Tanner and been a blonde guy.
I don't claim to know the factors that influence different people to prefer different things, I just believe that's the way it works. Two people might lose a friend to DUI and react differently. One might swear off alcohol forever while the other might get depressed and become an alcoholic. It doesn't necessarily mean that each was born with the preference for their respective paths, they were just affected differently and chose different ways to move forward.
 
#38
#38
Panthro said:
Just an example of how something can come natural to you, but not be something you were born with.
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but it's not "natural" it's learned. For it to make sense then sexual preference would need to be a learned behavior as well. Is that your claim?
 
#39
#39
Panthro said:
Just an example of how something can come natural to you, but not be something you were born with.
My argument is that sexual preference is something affected by outside factors somewhere along the way. Like with my earlier comment about my clear preference to brunettes over blondes. I wasn't born with that, I just really dug Alyssa Milano on Who's The Boss because she reminded me of a girl in my class. If I had been younger, I might have fallen for Stephanie Tanner and been a blonde guy.
I don't claim to know the factors that influence different people to prefer different things, I just believe that's the way it works. Two people might lose a friend to DUI and react differently. One might swear off alcohol forever while the other might get depressed and become an alcoholic. It doesn't necessarily mean that each was born with the preference for their respective paths, they were just affected differently and chose different ways to move forward.
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or maybe Michael J Fox in Back to the Future? You're argument is apples and oranges.
 
#40
#40
Who cares! What's the big effin deal? If a couple of bundles of sticks want to get married does it mean my marriage is devalued?
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#41
#41
So is there any logical reason against gay marriage? They only thing I'm getting here is "gays are icky the bible says so, they cant have what we have."
 
#45
#45
utvolpj said:
so you are fine with recognizing any religion's marriage? If so then imagine you think a certain one is not truly a religion but a cult. Should you have to recognize that one or is it fine to discriminate there too?
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I am not fine with recognizing any religion's marriage. I think that for me to have freedom of religion, then I must be given the right whether to recognize someone's else's marriage based on my religious beliefs, not theirs. That is why some outside entity should not be able to force me to recognize one that I don't think is legitimate. Note, I am not saying that the government should make gay marriage illegal, I am saying that it is none of the government's business who is or is not married.

For those who want to make a complaint that marriage is not a religious institution, read some history. Just because the government poked its nose in the marriage business and now wants to marry people via options like a JoP does not change that marriage as a concept originated in religious thought. Government has created special legal rights and privileges for married couples that cause people to want equal access to those rights and privileges. Take the special rights and privileges out of the equation and marriage goes back to its rightful place as a private affair. Then there is absolutely no controversy.
 
#46
#46
justingroves said:
Marriage is a religious institution.

What religion is okay with homosexuality? (This isn't a rhetorical question btw. I really can't think of one)

I don't care what people do behind closed doors. I think it's ridiculous that a country founded on freedom of religion is using religion to discriminate. I don't think it's in politicians' best interests to legislate morality. If you think it's a sin, don't do it. Worry about yourself and not your neighbors.

If people would use a little common sense, they could say "Look, marriage is between a man and a woman. However, this legally binding union has all the same rights that marriage has"

Make both sides happy. Homosexuals aren't technically "married" but they get the same benefits.
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I could certainly live with this.
 
#49
#49
complete non issue, the govt has no business whatsoever defining marriage in any way. live as free as humsnly possible!
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#50
#50
OrangeEmpire said:
complete non issue, the govt has no business whatsoever defining marriage in any way. live as free as humsnly possible!
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Conservatives say that the federal government is interfering with their freedom if they allow gay marriage. According to the guy I debated in the OP, since the US Constitution says nothing about marriage, it should be left up to the states to make laws on marriage. However, since some states are now allowing gay marriage, if a gay couple gets married in one state and then moves to another state that has a law against gay marriage, the couple is "forcing" gay marriage on that state. They don't like it and are asking for a constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage to "protect their freedom."

It is completely backwards and crazy in my opinion. I still think gay marriage will be legal in all states in about 15-20 years.
 
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