Gillispie in the news again

[kidbourbon]

Legality has everything to do with forgivability from the University's perspective. It is much harder for such institutions to publicly forgive and forget indiscretions that involve public trials, guilty pleas, prison sentences and the like than it is those that don't.

Thank you for qualifying your statement. It looks better now.

 

[hatvol96]

My post was about keeping it together as an aging alcoholic. He was young when this happened. I shoudl have thought of a different example of a functioning alcoholic as mentioning Teddy Kennedy was an invitation for the thread to go in a different direction.

How did he "keep it together?" The general public showed what they thought of him when he ran for president in '80. He was an ultraliberal getting elected by an ultraliberal electorate. The average American knew he was a drunk and a loser.
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[KB5252]

My post was about keeping it together as an aging alcoholic. He was young when this happened. I shoudl have thought of a different example of a functioning alcoholic as mentioning Teddy Kennedy was an invitation for the thread to go in a different direction.

He never really "kept it together", when he was younger his family and their connections kept things under wraps and fixed his problems. As he got older it was his name and his contacts and friends in the media and elsewhere that kept much of his actions out of the public eye.

 

[hatvol96]

He never really "kept it together", when he was younger his family and their connections kept things under wraps and fixed his problems. As he got older it was his name and his contacts and friends in the media and elsewhere that kept much of his actions out of the public eye.

The William Kennedy Smith rape trial, and the details that were exposed by it, showed exactly how much Teddy "kept it together."
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[KB5252]

The William Kennedy Smith rape trial, and the details that were exposed by it, showed exactly how much Teddy "kept it together."
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The way in which his career was launched and was protected by his family reminds me of Bush.

 

[kidbourbon]

How did he "keep it together?" The general public showed what they thought of him when he ran for president in '80. He was an ultraliberal getting elected by an ultraliberal electorate. The average American knew he was a drunk and a loser.
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Just forget I mentioned it. I should have picked a less polarizing figure as an example. Or maybe it was just a bad example.

My point was simply that there are certainly some functional alcoholics who remain functional. Examples are hard to come by because an alcoholic that "keeps it together" never gets exposed as an alcoholic. But I'll give it one more shot: Winston Churchill. Definitely a boozehound*. And I don't have any evidence to suggest he couldn't "keep it together."

*Different biographers have come to different conclusions about how much of a boozehound he really was, but I have little doubt he was a full-on alcoholic (I have some supporting anecdotal evidence: My great uncle -- who was a long-time contributor and eventual editor-in-chief of Look magazine (long defunct) -- met with Mr. Churchill on a couple of occasions in private settings (and one time with Churchill and FDR...just Churchill, FDR, and my great uncle...I found out all these stories after he passed, unfortunately). Anyway, that was a lot of wind-up. Bottom line: Churchill had a scotch in his hand, no matter what time of day it was.).

 

[Redlegs]

Billy didn't get fired because he drinks. He didn't get fired because he kicked a female reporter in the hoo-haa or hit on a recruit's girlfriend or otherwise displayed a lack of Christian virtue. He got fired because his teams weren't very good.

Eddie didn't get fired because he drinks. Eddie got fired because UK landed in the slammer under his watch. My semi-educated opinion is that UK fans and administrators don't care what their coaches do off the court or on the road or in the bedroom, so long as they win. Billy didn't. Eddie couldn't anymore.

Cotton, I didn't imply Billy G got fired because he was a drinker. My point was I was surprised the Cats athletic department went down that road in the first place due to the experience with Eddie Sutton. Coach Sutton would routinely be found intoxicated, to the point the university hired him a driver.

As for Gillispie, his teams weren't to Kentucky's high standards. That's true. But he was fired just as much for being a butthole than he was for losing to lesser teams. Truth be told, his mouth aided in his firing. When Billy G was asked about being an ambassador for the state of Kentucky, he replied, "That wasn't in my job description." That comment had as much to do with is firing as anything. If nothing else, it was the final nail in his coffin.

 

[cotton]

Cotton, I didn't imply Billy G got fired because he was a drinker. My point was I was surprised the Cats athletic department went down that road in the first place due to the experience with Eddie Sutton. Coach Sutton would routinely be found intoxicated, to the point the university hired him a driver.

I understand what you are saying, but it misses the point. Eddie's drinking didn't matter, and Gillispie's drinking didn't matter. It's like saying, "I can't believe they would hire another blue eyed football coach after the mess Mumme got them into." Next to whether the powers that be believe a guy will win or not, his personal habits are about as important as his eye color.

As for Gillispie, his teams weren't to Kentucky's high standards. That's true. But he was fired just as much for being a butthole than he was for losing to lesser teams. Truth be told, his mouth aided in his firing. When Billy G was asked about being an ambassador for the state of Kentucky, he replied, "That wasn't in my job description." That comment had as much to do with is firing as anything. If nothing else, it was the final nail in his coffin.

That comment only mattered because his teams weren't very good. Being a "butthole" only mattered because his teams weren't very good. I doubt you can identify a more arrogant yankee prick than Rick Pitino, c. 1990-1996, and there are still a good number of UK fans with alters to him on their mantle because the guy won. Think that New York Catholic Italiano was an ambassador for the state of Kentucky? Think saying that his job was winning games instead of politicking would have nailed his coffin?

The list of coaches that are jerks is long, indeed. Arenas get named after the ones that win. The ones that don't wind up in contract disputes after their dismissals.

 

[Redlegs]

I doubt you can identify a more arrogant yankee prick than Rick Pitino, c. 1990-1996, and there are still a good number of UK fans with alters to him on their mantle because the guy won. Think that New York Catholic Italiano was an ambassador for the state of Kentucky? Think saying that his job was winning games instead of politicking would have nailed his coffin?

Along with winning, Rick Pitino shook the hands, kissed the babies, and went to the charity golf outings when he was supposed to. Let's face it, being the head basketball coach at Kentucky is as high a profile position as governor. Billy Clyde was way out of his element and when you combine all those things with emabarrassing losses, you have a firing after just two years.

 

[jjay2518]

I understand what you are saying, but it misses the point. Eddie's drinking didn't matter, and Gillispie's drinking didn't matter. It's like saying, "I can't believe they would hire another blue eyed football coach after the mess Mumme got them into." Next to whether the powers that be believe a guy will win or not, his personal habits are about as important as his eye color.



That comment only mattered because his teams weren't very good. Being a "butthole" only mattered because his teams weren't very good. I doubt you can identify a more arrogant yankee prick than Rick Pitino, c. 1990-1996, and there are still a good number of UK fans with alters to him on their mantle because the guy won. Think that New York Catholic Italiano was an ambassador for the state of Kentucky? Think saying that his job was winning games instead of politicking would have nailed his coffin?

The list of coaches that are jerks is long, indeed. Arenas get named after the ones that win. The ones that don't wind up in contract disputes after their dismissals.

If being blue-eyed was a detriment to your ability to perform your job, then that would be a valid analogy. If you're honestly trying to argue that someone can consistently perform their job as an alcoholic as well as if they were sober, then you're way off base. It's hard to definitely say whether or not BG's drinking hurt his coaching or not, but the results definitely weren't good enough.