Give CBJ Some Credit

#26
#26
VKAman said:
I mean his history of leaving teams worse than he found them, and his history of losing every single big game he coaches.
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So who would have been your logical choice with the coaches left. Wich one was so much better.
 
#27
#27
VKAman said:
His 1-12 record against teams better than 7-5, with the best team in the conference (and the 1 was against a MAC team). That's like taking over Alabama right now, when they're top dogs, and losing to Florida/Georgia/South Carolina/LSU/A&M/Mississippi State--all of them--every single time you play them. Only instead of Bama, he gets Tennessee.

Or his 12-9 Big East record. That's a good source too.
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Looked up the numbers and found 2 wins over teams better than 7-5 immediately... And at that point I stopped looking... Are these the only statistics you're familiar with??? Because a) they're incorrect, b) you seem to have an agenda...

Another added to the ignore list...
 
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#28
#28
4 championships in 6 years. If the teams went down hill when he left.....it was probably because he left.
 
#29
#29
SmokeyFTW said:
So who would have been your logical choice with the coaches left. Wich one was so much better.
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Butch Davis.

But even aside from the big name guys, someone like Dave Doeren would still have made a better choice. I'm actually having trouble thinking of a single other team in the country that made a worse hire than we did. Maybe Gus Malzahn, and I don't want Petrino anywhere near here, but that's about it.
 
#30
#30
howie87 said:
Looked up the numbers and found 2 wins over teams better than 7-5 immediately... And at that point I stopped looking... Are these the only statistics you're familiar with??? Because a) they're incorrect, b) you seem to have an agenda...

Another added to the ignore list...
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At Cincinnati, Miami (OH) was the only one. Might want to keep looking.
 
#32
#32
SmokeyFTW said:
4 championships in 6 years. If the teams went down hill when he left.....it was probably because he left.
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It's 2 in 6 years. Being in four-way ties isn't a championship. If Cincinnati actually won the Big East, they'd be in a BCS bowl, no?

I was referring to Cincinnati being substantially worse under Jones than it was under Kelly.
 
#33
#33
VKAman said:
Butch Davis.

But even aside from the big name guys, someone like Dave Doeren would still have made a better choice. I'm actually having trouble thinking of a single other team in the country that made a worse hire than we did. Maybe Gus Malzahn, and I don't want Petrino anywhere near here, but that's about it.
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Butch Davis??? I'm on my phone so not able look easily, but how many championships has he won?
Plus last stop had ncaa violations all over it.
Doeren? And I thought you were wanting a proven track record.
 
#34
#34
Petrino? Did you want his mistress to come and help recruit with him, because wether she came or not she would be in the recruits living room while there parents are bringing it up. Really
 
#35
#35
SmokeyFTW said:
Butch Davis??? I'm on my phone so not able look easily, but how many championships has he won?
Plus last stop had ncaa violations all over it.
Doeren? And I thought you were wanting a proven track record.
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He's actually won his conference and gone to a BCS bowl, unlike Jones. Also, he assembled the greatest roster in college football history. Think a great recruiter would help?

He was cleared of all wrongdoing by the NCAA. And as far as Doeren, he took a good team and made it dominant. I didn't say anything about years of coaching experience, I just said I'd rather have a guy who made his program better than one who saw it get worse.
 
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#37
#37
VKAman said:
Anyone could take over Alabama and have a couple 9-3 seasons. That's basically what Jones did at Cincy.

Willie Taggart took an 0-12 team to 7-5. Butch Jones took a 12-1 team to 9-3. But of course, here, people would just be like "9 > 7!! Jones is a better coach!!"
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So you don't think losing 6 or 7 of your best players to the NFL had anything to do with that. A 9-3 rebuilding year hmmmm
 
#38
#38
SmokeyFTW said:
So you don't think losing 6 or 7 of your best players to the NFL had anything to do with that. A 9-3 rebuilding year hmmmm
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Kelly was there 3 years, taking over an 8-5 team, and went 33-7 (17-4 in the Big East) with 2 conference titles--the real ones that come with BCS bowls--and 10+ wins every season.

Jones was there 3 years, taking over a 12-1 team, and went 23-14 (12-9 in the Big East) with zero actual conference titles.

Do you see the difference? Yes, Jones went 8-5 on average, but that's less impressive when their average season was 11-2 before he got there.
 
#41
#41
If you count bowl games, NC State was 8-5 in 2011 and Jones' record against those teams goes to 2-13. Here it is:

2010 1-8
Fresno State (8-5) L
NC State (9-4) L
Oklahoma (12-2) L
Miami (OH) (10-4) W
USF (8-5) L
Syracuse (8-5) L
WVU (9-4) L
UConn (8-5) L
Pitt (8-5) L

2011 1-2
NC State (8-5) W
WVU (10-3) L
Rutgers (9-4) L

2012 0-3
Toledo (9-3) L
Louisville (10-2) L
Rutgers (9-3) L

In other words, you could count on every other good Big East team to beat him, 100% of the time. He was literally 0-9 against them, and he started with the best team in the conference.
 
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#43
#43
burntorangeVOLffle said:
So one win above .500 is chumpville but 2 is the magic number?
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Considering he inherited a 12-1 team, I don't really care what he did against 7-5 teams. He could dominate them and it's still the equivalent of Alabama beating up on Vanderbilt.

Also, it's a good cutoff based on sheer numbers.
 
#44
#44
VKAman said:
Considering he inherited a 12-1 team, I don't really care what he did against 7-5 teams. He could dominate them and it's still the equivalent of Alabama beating up on Vanderbilt.

Also, it's a good cutoff based on sheer numbers.
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Why do you discount his CMU career? He had 4 more wins over 8+ win teams. And say what you want about their record he also beat Mich St once too.
 
#45
#45
VKAman said:
Considering he inherited a 12-1 team, I don't really care what he did against 7-5 teams. He could dominate them and it's still the equivalent of Alabama beating up on Vanderbilt.

Also, it's a good cutoff based on sheer numbers.
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It's done. Butch is the coach. You obviously don't agree with the hire and that's fine. But there's nothing you can do. So go ahead and piss and moan all you want bc that's all you are doing while accomplishing absolutely nothing.
 
#46
#46
SmileyVol_c/o_10 said:
It's done. Butch is the coach. You obviously don't agree with the hire and that's fine. But there's nothing you can do. So go ahead and piss and moan all you want bc that's all you are doing while accomplishing absolutely nothing.
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And the people acting like the sun shines out his ass, just like the people who did the same with Dooley, aren't accomplishing a single thing more.
 
#47
#47
While CBJ wasn't my top choice nothing can be done about it now. I am not upset that CBJ took the job. I am upset that Dave and Jimmy offered it to him. I think it would be a much bigger help to the school and football program to support the new coaches and players. Maybe we should be more worried about the resume's of Hart and Cheek and a little less worried about Coach Jones. I feel like CBJ is going to give us 110% effort. Getting the players, fanbase, and university to match his level of effort will be his biggest challenge.
 
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#48
#48
VKAman said:
And the people acting like the sun shines out his ass, just like the people who did the same with Dooley, aren't accomplishing a single thing more.
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You tend to exaggerate your statements about how people feel about cbj and you're doing a lot of work to convince people that this is a bad hire. Why? Do you need other people to be miserable with you every time butch wins a game? Do you need that security blanket? And for the rest of butch's time here at UT are you gonna relish in his losses just to say "I told you so"? What's is your agenda? I get it. You don't agree with the hire but nobody is going to come looking for vkman to do their coaching search anytime soon.
 
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#49
#49
SmileyVol_c/o_10 said:
You tend to exaggerate your statements about how people feel about cbj and you're doing a lot of work to convince people that this is a bad hire. Why? Do you need other people to be miserable with you every time butch wins a game? Do you need that security blanket? And for the rest of butch's time here at UT are you gonna relish in his losses just to say "I told you so"? What's is your agenda? I get it. You don't agree with the hire but nobody is going to come looking for vkman to do their coaching search anytime soon.
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I would love for Jones to do well. But people who actually believe that he was the best we could get, or that the AD actually did a good job, are part of the reason our program is getting bent over by Jimmy Cheek.
 
#50
#50
VKAman said:
I would love for Jones to do well. But people who actually believe that he was the best we could get, or that the AD actually did a good job, are part of the reason our program is getting bent over by Jimmy Cheek.
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You would love for CBJ to do well. And if Coach does well, then the AD did well to hire him. It's all to be determined. So why spend the next 9 months second guessing the decision before he's even coached a game? Seems like you're taking away your ability to enjoy any success we might have.
 
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