glad we fired Holly for this

[DeerPark12]

Losing Zaay Green had a bigger impact across the board than imagined.
1) team leading scorer 2) lead shooting guard 3) lead point guard 4) best role model for Jordan ,better than Davis.5) ball handler 6) more options for coach 7)
great fit next to Jordan up tempo style 8) offense would
be more up tempo and on and on and on.
There would be plenty of games we wouldn't have lost.
Her injury this year was socio huge. Keep the faith

The above post is the end of the thread. If Green is playing, we’re not having this conversation.

 

[glv98]

I agree, Horston looked like a candidate for Freshman of the Year early in year. Kellie has destroyed her game to the point I'm not sure she will get it back this season...

FOY really? I was trying to remember when she looked that good and thought well maybe against the cupcakes. So I looked. Oh goodness, almost wish I hadn't.

She had one outstanding game, 17 pt and NO TURNOVERS against Central Ark. She's had a handful of games with good assist numbers. She's sporadically scored well, though never shot well. But it's all overshadowed by dear Lord, the turnovers.

JH has struggled mightily with turnovers from literally the very first game against ETSU when she had 7 t.o.s in just 15 mins of play. Unfortunately, a harbinger of what was to come. Level of competition has made absolutely no difference in her t.o.s, except she's consistently made 6 or 7 against the best teams. But she also had 8 against Arky Pine Bluff, 8 against Notre Dame, 6 against Ole Miss and 5 against Howard. The problem is clearly not the competition and clearly did not go downhill from earlier in the season. It's been consistently alarming.

SEC play has been brutal for her. Had 2 t.o. games against both Vandy and Florida and 3 against Missouri. Beyond those fairly normal efforts, she's had one 7 t.o. game, four 6 t.o. games, three 5 t.o. games, and one 4 t.o. game in league play. Also had 6 against UConn.

KJH did not break Jordan. She came to us that way. But it is fair to say the current coaching staff has sure not found a way to fix her; in fact, it's worsened to the point the kid is clearly gone mental with it. That's so scary because it so fits the terrible pattern of some recent players

I don't know the answer but I sure hope someone on the staff does. In spite of her struggles, I still think Horston has a big upside and want to see her break free of the t.o. plague. But it's flat out wrong to say KJH "destroyed her game."

 

[madtownvol]

Some may not remember this, but when Sabrina Ionescu and Ruthy Hebard were freshmen at Oregon and they were ranked #10, they lost in the NCAA tournament to #1 UCONN by a score of 90-52.

Yet look where they are today.

Yes, and both should have had their scholarships revoked and the coach fired immediately because if a team is not #1 with 5 all-americans, freshman or not, then the only "logical" choice is to burn it all down or something like that.....


You know, Rome was built in a day, patience is a virus, good things come to those who can't wait, leap before you look, throw the first stone at the sinners so no ask questions are asked about you and so on....

It is all right there....

 

[madtownvol]

FOY really? I was trying to remember when she looked that good and thought well maybe against the cupcakes. So I looked. Oh goodness, almost wish I hadn't.

She had one outstanding game, 17 pt and NO TURNOVERS against Central Ark. She's had a handful of games with good assist numbers. She's sporadically scored well, though never shot well. But it's all overshadowed by dear Lord, the turnovers.

JH has struggled mightily with turnovers from literally the very first game against ETSU when she had 7 t.o.s in just 15 mins of play. Unfortunately, a harbinger of what was to come. Level of competition has made absolutely no difference in her t.o.s, except she's consistently made 6 or 7 against the best teams. But she also had 8 against Arky Pine Bluff, 8 against Notre Dame, 6 against Ole Miss and 5 against Howard. The problem is clearly not the competition and clearly did not go downhill from earlier in the season. It's been consistently alarming.

SEC play has been brutal for her. Had 2 t.o. games against both Vandy and Florida and 3 against Missouri. Beyond those fairly normal efforts, she's had one 7 t.o. game, four 6 t.o. games, three 5 t.o. games, and one 4 t.o. game in league play. Also had 6 against UConn.

KJH did not break Jordan. She came to us that way. But it is fair to say the current coaching staff has sure not found a way to fix her; in fact, it's worsened to the point the kid is clearly gone mental with it. That's so scary because it so fits the terrible pattern of some recent players

I don't know the answer but I sure hope someone on the staff does. In spite of her struggles, I still think Horston has a big upside and want to see her break free of the t.o. plague. But it's flat out wrong to say KJH "destroyed her game."

Good points all the way around but some folks don't want facts in the way of their lambasting narrative.

Jordan needs to get out of her own head. She is missing shots that an average high school would make. She is playing nervous and jittery.

There was one play against Texas A&M that stuck with me,. She made an elite ball fake and cut to the basket and had a wide open, uncontested lay-up. This play came when the LVs were trying to close the gap which had been hovering around 4 and the whole arena would have erupted.

As Jordan floats to the rim, she double pumps her shot, as though some imaginary defender appeared in her head, and she blew the lay-up.

To me that play sums up her whole season, she has the talent to put herself into great positions to score and then she makes an unnecessary extra move with the ball, a double pump, a more dramatic scoop on a lay-up that does not work out or she decides (so it seems) why take this wide 5 footer when I can make a thread the needle pass to my post whose back is turned to me and has three defenders around her.

Some of these problems should not be that hard to fix unless Jordan has become like the NY Jets QB who said he was seeing ghosts when playing the Pats defense.

 

[Darth_Vol]

FOY really? I was trying to remember when she looked that good and thought well maybe against the cupcakes. So I looked. Oh goodness, almost wish I hadn't.

She had one outstanding game, 17 pt and NO TURNOVERS against Central Ark. She's had a handful of games with good assist numbers. She's sporadically scored well, though never shot well. But it's all overshadowed by dear Lord, the turnovers.

Well, in addition to that game she had:
12 points, 7 rebounds, 5 assists against Notre Dame
14 points, 5 rebounds, 7 assists against Stetson
10 points, 14 rebounds, 7 assists against against Colorado State
20 points, 4 rebounds, 5 assists against Portland State
14 points, 8 rebounds, 6 assists against Howard

Yes you're right she had some pre-conference duds as well, mostly against the better teams, but never the sustained period of putrid play that we're seeing now. You would like to see some level of improvement over the course of the season, but now it's a struggle for her just to hit a layup...

 

[Coach Jumper]

Coach Jumper,
Are you hurting recruiting???

To start with, I do appreciate your knowledge and have learned a lot reading your posts.
In some of your posts you say you don’t criticize players because recruits might read this forum and if we are critical of players, it may turn them away from Tenn...

@glv98 @madtownvol @Darth_Vol

Please read the above post and fill in your names

I hope you three stooges feel good about trashing Jordan
What a pathetic bunch of "fans"

Sleep well

 

[Coach Jumper]

Some of these problems should not be that hard to fix unless Jordan has become like the NY Jets QB who said he was seeing ghosts when playing the Pats defense.

Those two I expected immature and wounding posts from
But you,,,you were having "posts of the year"

This isn't one of them

Your credibility is hurt with BS like this...pitiful mtv...pitiful
This kind of post is personal.
I expected much more out of you

 

[glv98]

@glv98 @madtownvol @Darth_Vol

Please read the above post and fill in your names

I hope you three stooges feel good about trashing Jordan
What a pathetic bunch of "fans"

Sleep well

Us pathetic? How creepy to constantly personalize totally impersonal discussion on a fan critique board so that you can step in and be the "hero" by "defending". You personalize EVERYTHING about the LV players and I find that truly disturbing, especially coupled with your numerous attempts to make actual contact with them.

I've said over and over nothing we say here is of any interest nor harm to recruiting. But if anything could be, it would be your attempts to constantly set yourself as their "coach", savior, and best friend. I know its bitterly disappointing to you, but none of this is personal "trashing" and no one needs defending. It's a board dedicated to discussing the play of the LVs, not a crusade for or against anyone. Why is that so hard for you?

Just curious, do you go on the Vol Nation Men's Bball or Football boards and call everyone nasty bullies for discussing games and the play of players and vow to defend and aid "your" players? Bet you don't!

 

[Coach Jumper]

Us pathetic? How creepy to constantly personalize totally impersonal discussion on a fan critique board so that you can step in and be the "hero" by "defending". You personalize EVERYTHING about the LV players and I find that truly disturbing, especially coupled with your numerous attempts to make actual contact with them.

I've said over and over nothing we say here is of any interest nor harm to recruiting. But if anything could be, it would be your attempts to constantly set yourself as their "coach", savior, and best friend. I know its bitterly disappointing to you, but none of this is personal "trashing" and no one needs defending. It's a board dedicated to discussing the play of the LVs, not a crusade for or against anyone. Why is that so hard for you?

Just curious, do you go on the Vol Nation Men's Bball or Football boards and call everyone nasty bullies for discussing games and the play of players and vow to defend and aid "your" players? Bet you don't!

dig a deeper hole glv
your spoon is becoming a shovel
Like I said, you being part of this doesn't shock me

 

[T_Vol376]

Us pathetic? How creepy to constantly personalize totally impersonal discussion on a fan critique board so that you can step in and be the "hero" by "defending". You personalize EVERYTHING about the LV players and I find that truly disturbing, especially coupled with your numerous attempts to make actual contact with them.

I've said over and over nothing we say here is of any interest nor harm to recruiting. But if anything could be, it would be your attempts to constantly set yourself as their "coach", savior, and best friend. I know its bitterly disappointing to you, but none of this is personal "trashing" and no one needs defending. It's a board dedicated to discussing the play of the LVs, not a crusade for or against anyone. Why is that so hard for you?

Just curious, do you go on the Vol Nation Men's Bball or Football boards and call everyone nasty bullies for discussing games and the play of players and vow to defend and aid "your" players? Bet you don't!

Finally somebody besides me gets how strange, disturbing, and downright creepy it is. Notice how he is constantly defending Jordan. He’s done it with others....

 

[glv98]

Your credibility is hurt with BS like this...pitiful mtv...pitiful

Without one bit of apparent irony, mtv's credibility is called out by the man busted just hours ago for completely plagerizing the story of a deceased coach as his own.

Never thought I'd wish for a heavily moderated board where no one is allowed to post anything about the board or other posters, but I swear, this overpersonalization and self-agrandizing is getting so tiresome.

 

[Coach Jumper]

To be fair Horston never played for Holly, she reeks on her own right now. I want to think she'll get better and seems to have the tools, but probably is a lost cause in need of total psychological rebuild in off season.

I've never been personal with Coach K...She is a peer, not a young girl
She knows my intentions are honorable
Her staff and the UT staff knows my intentions are honorable
And yas, sometimes my emotions get the better of me, but at least I admit it and repent

Jordan is a young woman
A freshman
Not a 40 year old mature woman
Remember Jaz and Rae last year...look at them this year

Like I said, feel good about what you say, I knew you would

 

[T_Vol376]

Without one bit of apparent irony, mtv's credibility is called out by the man busted just hours ago for completely plagerizing the story of a deceased coach as his own.

Never thought I'd wish for a heavily moderated board where no one is allowed to post anything about the board or other posters, but I swear, this overpersonalization and self-agrandizing is getting so tiresome.

It’s a trip - everybody’s “credibility is shot,” including mine. Hell, I wasn’t trying to have credibility. I was privy to some information and know he contacted JH’s
mom. Don’t care about credibility or if anybody else on here believes it, but it really needs to stop. JH’s DAD has coached her since she was a kid and has folks playing in the league. I think they’re good....

 

[madtownvol]

Those two I expected immature and wounding posts from
But you,,,you were having "posts of the year"

This isn't one of them

Your credibility is hurt with BS like this...pitiful mtv...pitiful
This kind of post is personal.
I expected much more out of you

Dude, you shouldn't grab one sentence from a post and treat it like a stand alone entity because context matters.

I have never said anything about Jordan other than she is a supremely talented Freshman who is struggling to adjust to the college game and who appears to be letting past struggles effect her.

I am not on "the JH was over rated" bandwagon or "the bench her" camp. I have consistently said that some of her TOs are less her fault and more due to a stagnant offense that lacks good outlets via 3 pt shooters who spread the floor or a dominating post player (Key is not there yet).

Against, Texas A&M, however, it was abundantly clear that she was playing jittery and nervous and when she missed the wide open break away lay-up she literally stood under the basket and hung in her head in frustration.

[She did hit a big three late but then things did not go well for her in subsequent play when the game still sort of hung in the balance]

So, yeah I think she has a mental block to work through along with her other adjustments. It happens players can lose confidence and get themselves into major slumps. It happens to pros and it can sure as heck happen to an 18 year old kid.

Jordan is going to be a fantastic player. The only question is how much of that potential brilliance will we see THIS season.

So, don't paint me as some internet bully lambasting an 18 year old kid. That is not what I am about and you know it.

 

[Coach Jumper]

Without one bit of apparent irony, mtv's credibility is called out by the man busted just hours ago for completely plagerizing the story of a deceased coach as his own.

Never thought I'd wish for a heavily moderated board where no one is allowed to post anything about the board or other posters, but I swear, this overpersonalization and self-agrandizing is getting so tiresome.

I had an exchange with a referee in the early 2000's
I have/had no idea of Coach Valvano's authorship until it was told to me here.
One of the Pistol coach's told me he had said it and I told him I was going to use it
doesn't matter, you will only believe what you believe
Now that I know it was stolen from Jimmy V, I will never repeat it as my personal story again
My "plagiarism" was done in innocence

Just back off of the kid, huh
you have been on her like a bully for a while now
I can take it
I can give it back to a bully like you
all she can do is be a victim

 

[glv98]

Yes you're right she had some pre-conference duds as well, mostly against the better teams, but never the sustained period of putrid play that we're seeing now.

.
But that's not true. See my post, Arky Pine Bluff, Howard, Old Miss. etc. And never, not once, put together consecutive games with less than 4 t.o.s. It has been sustained, and against everyone.

You would like to see some level of improvement over the course of the season

This is true, and the biggest knock on KJH tenure IMO. This must be fixed, both for the team and the player.

 

[glv98]

all she can do is be a victim

I rest my case. Them: poor victims, tied to the railroad tracks. Us: mustache twirling villians. Him: their knight in shining armor!

Disturbing indeed.

 

[madtownvol]

I've never been personal with Coach K...She is a peer, not a young girl
She knows my intentions are honorable
Her staff and the UT staff knows my intentions are honorable
And yas, sometimes my emotions get the better of me, but at least I admit it and repent

Jordan is a young woman
A freshman
Not a 40 year old mature woman
Remember Jaz and Rae last year...look at them this year

Like I said, feel good about what you say, I knew you would

Without one bit of apparent irony, mtv's credibility is called out by the man busted just hours ago for completely plagerizing the story of a deceased coach as his own.

Never thought I'd wish for a heavily moderated board where no one is allowed to post anything about the board or other posters, but I swear, this overpersonalization and self-agrandizing is getting so tiresome.

You know, this whole thing reminds me of many years ago when I was saving civilization from a terminator, who had been sent back from the future to kill the leader of the resistance movement while he was still a child. I was coaching the young leader in a my patented "14 drills to save the world" system.

Anyway, I blew the terminator away and I said Hasta La Vista, Baby

So, "shot credibility" or not well....

I'll be back

 

[madtownvol]

I rest my case. Them: poor victims, tied to the railroad tracks. Us: mustache twirling villians. Him: their knight in shining armor!

Disturbing indeed.

Do the victim! Wasn't that a big disco hit back in the 80s? I guess Jordan likes to dance maybe......

 

[Coach Jumper]

Keep digging, a hole only gets bigger

And now someone I posted concern to rings in,,,thanks!

I have defended Rae, Tamari, Coach K and would defend any of this team against badgering
Not just JH

She just happens to be the "whipping girl" right now and I think it is distasteful and bad for the organization

Do I make mistakes, yes,
At least I admit them

Do I personally attack, no.
Do I concentrate on Coach K more than others, yes, because I am a coach who posts as a coach
But it is never personal

 

[Coach Jumper]

Back off of the kids guys

Be adults

They probably aren't feeling too good right now

Focus on me,
I can take it, I am a fully grown man with a skin of armor.

 

[madtownvol]

Back off of the kids guys

Be adults

They probably aren't feeling too good right now

Focus on me,
I can take it, I am a fully grown man with a skin of armor.

 

[Voltopia]

It’s a trip - and everybody’s “credibility is shot,” including mine. Hell, I wasn’t trying to have credibility. I was privy to some information and know he contacted JH’s
mom. Don’t care about credibility or if anybody else on here believes it, but it really needs to stop. JH’s DAD has coached her since she was a kid and has folks playing in the league. I think they’re good....

The interesting thing to me -- well ... let's ... it's all interesting in a sort of a "let's analyze the psychology of what's going on here" kind of way, for a bit, but -- the interesting thing to me is that, if all things were normal? I'd probably be pretty doubtful. Sort of a "ehh, internet stuff" kind of deal. But considering everything to date? Yeah, I believed it. And funny thing, that. Not that it matters, nor do I need it to matter. It's just a message board. But in my decade on the old SUmmiTT and then I guess eleven years hanging out here, never thought I'd see anything like this. *shrug*

 

[T_Vol376]

Back off of the kids guys

Be adults

They probably aren't feeling too good right now

Focus on me,
I can take it, I am a fully grown man with a skin of armor.

Nobody you named is bashing anybody! To quote my favorite movie line, “Are you HIGH Claree?”

 

[Coach Jumper]

I am talking about
Ephesians 6:10-18