GM declaring bankruptcy..

#76
#76
Rasputin_Vol said:
Wow... Midwest got slaughtered. Spring Hill got spared for right now.
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I thought SH was Saturn and it's being sold off so it may or may not be spared. I believe the list refers to plants for the restructured GM after getting rid of Saab, Saturn and 2 other brands.
 
#77
#77
Rasputin_Vol said:
Outside of your spelling correction, you did nothing to counter my two claims. GM's problems were there long before Wagoner got there and you still just mentioned their hourly salaries, not benefits on top of that.
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Again, your "claim" that Rick Wagoner has been gone for thirty years is untrue. He was fired in March after heading GM since 1992 as President and later as CEO. He was most responsible for destroying GM. He was a bureaucrat, not an innovator.

Active GM employees are paid at the rate I indicated. Legacy costs affect pricing. The same thing will happen to the new foreign owned manufacturing plants producing in the U.S. in 20-25 years.

Alan Malolly has been at Ford for about three years. To state the obvious, Ford is also unionized as is GM. One is being well run, one is not. The union has the same contract at both companies.

The UAW is only a small part of the problem.
 
#78
#78
volinbham said:
I thought SH was Saturn and it's being sold off so it may or may not be spared. I believe the list refers to plants for the restructured GM after getting rid of Saab, Saturn and 2 other brands.
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The Spring Hill plant hasn't made Saturns in a few years. They are currently assembling the Traverse. In November or sometime after that though, who knows...
 
#80
#80
NorthwestVol said:
Again, your "claim" that Rick Wagoner has been gone for thirty years is untrue. He was fired in March after heading GM since 1992 as President and later as CEO. He was most responsible for destroying GM. He was a bureaucrat, not an innovator.

Active GM employees are paid at the rate I indicated. Legacy costs affect pricing. The same thing will happen to the new foreign owned manufacturing plants producing in the U.S. in 20-25 years.

Alan Malolly has been at Ford for about three years. To state the obvious, Ford is also unionized as is GM. One is being well run, one is not. The union has the same contract at both companies.

The UAW is only a small part of the problem.
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I'm glad you were a shuffler. Real resposibility would have been a disaster.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
 
#81
#81
Brewerw said:
Excuse me, the original post was referring to American car manufacturers. And as ptclaus98 stated, GM had the same practices. Just to a lesser extent.
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wrong, no mention of Ford in OP, thanks for playing
 
#82
#82
NorthwestVol said:
Again, your "claim" that Rick Wagoner has been gone for thirty years is untrue. He was fired in March after heading GM since 1992 as President and later as CEO. He was most responsible for destroying GM. He was a bureaucrat, not an innovator.

Active GM employees are paid at the rate I indicated. Legacy costs affect pricing. The same thing will happen to the new foreign owned manufacturing plants producing in the U.S. in 20-25 years.

Alan Malolly has been at Ford for about three years. To state the obvious, Ford is also unionized as is GM. One is being well run, one is not. The union has the same contract at both companies.

The UAW is only a small part of the problem.
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This overlooks the overarching picture of how well any US car company, Ford included, does against foreign competitors. The common thread there is unions, and the obscenely high rates they demand for there people that would be a pipe dream in a real free job market.

Ford may not be filing for bankruptcy, but they are still getting their butt kicked because they can't invest in the R&D and innovation its foreign competitors can.

Unions are far from a "small part of the problem". I would venture to say without union hags demanding the rates and benefits they do, Ford is in an even better position than it is right now and GM isn't filing for bankruptcy.
 
#83
#83
Just as a side note on the UAW.

With the restructuring of the contract they now own 17 1/2 percent of General motors and according to the terms of the contract have a chance to gain an additional 2 1/2 percent.This arrangement was accepted for the forgiveness of $10 BILLON DOLLARS owed the pension, roughly have the total debt owed to the retirement fund.

I am sure everyone will be watching and studying this arrangement.Frankly I see it as a chance to prove multiple points I have made (Tried to make) about Corporations and Unions sharing responsibilities.Not only Do I beleive that the arrangement will work.I beleive they will thrive.

Time will tell.
 
#85
#85
ford is well run? they are practically in bankruptcy.

anyone thinking the unions aren't by far the #1 problem for the automakers clearly have never looked at the financials of the two companies. obama blaming the bondholders is absurd. the debt payment on the bonds is 1/10th of the pension obligations just by itself.
 
#86
#86
orangeblooded2 said:
Just as a side note on the UAW.

With the restructuring of the contract they now own 17 1/2 percent of General motors and according to the terms of the contract have a chance to gain an additional 2 1/2 percent.This arrangement was accepted for the forgiveness of $10 BILLON DOLLARS owed the pension, roughly have the total debt owed to the retirement fund.

I am sure everyone will be watching and studying this arrangement.Frankly I see it as a chance to prove multiple points I have made (Tried to make) about Corporations and Unions sharing responsibilities.Not only Do I beleive that the arrangement will work.I beleive they will thrive.

Time will tell.
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Here's the problem: $10 billion got them 17 - 20% while $27 billion got the bond holders (those that should have been first in line legally) only 10 - 12%.

I believe that the union also got moved ahead of secured debt holders in terms of claims on the new company. Team Obama screwed the bond holders hard.
 
#87
#87
exactly volinbham. the unions have no secured legal claim in bankruptcy for that pension obligation. thne bondholders come first BY LAW. and on top of that they still handed the unions 3 times more of the company. amazing.
 
#88
#88
volinbham said:
Here's the problem: $10 billion got them 17 - 20% while $27 billion got the bond holders (those that should have been first in line legally) only 10 - 12%.

I believe that the union also got moved ahead of secured debt holders in terms of claims on the new company. Team Obama screwed the bond holders hard.
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yes they did...basically just flushed the bailout money!
 
#90
#90
orangeblooded2 said:
Just as a side note on the UAW.

With the restructuring of the contract they now own 17 1/2 percent of General motors and according to the terms of the contract have a chance to gain an additional 2 1/2 percent.This arrangement was accepted for the forgiveness of $10 BILLON DOLLARS owed the pension, roughly have the total debt owed to the retirement fund.

I am sure everyone will be watching and studying this arrangement.Frankly I see it as a chance to prove multiple points I have made (Tried to make) about Corporations and Unions sharing responsibilities.Not only Do I beleive that the arrangement will work.I beleive they will thrive.

Time will tell.
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I don't know about "thrive", but they will exist so long as BO is president. He may have to install money printing presses in GM factories, create car buying departments, etc. But they will exist for at least his tenure in office.
 
#94
#94
cd12 said:
I googled him. Its amazing what you will remember!
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I did a while back. I remember the female chimp always nagging him and saying his name Laaance-aaah-lottt (kinda like the Ricola cough drop commercials).
 
#96
#96
droski said:
ford is well run? they are practically in bankruptcy.

anyone thinking the unions aren't by far the #1 problem for the automakers clearly have never looked at the financials of the two companies. obama blaming the bondholders is absurd. the debt payment on the bonds is 1/10th of the pension obligations just by itself.
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Compared with GM, they are a benchmark run company.
 
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