GM pays off its bailout loans

[rjd970]

how about just paying people what they are worth.
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But you don't understand Droski...how is the little guy supposed to get cadillac retirement plans and lifetime healthcare?

 

[Nash270]

I have yet to understand why unions are looked at in a different light than companies. In a laissez faire market, unions are a eventual outcome. Companies want to make as much money for stock owners as possible, unions want to make as much as much money for members as possible. In the case of GM the unions reached too far, and the company didnt have good enough leadership to see that or push back.

 

[paul1454]

I have yet to understand why unions are looked at in a different light than companies. In a laissez faire market, unions are a eventual outcome. Companies want to make as much money for stock owners as possible, unions want to make as much as much money for members as possible. In the case of GM the unions reached too far, and the company didnt have good enough leadership to see that or push back.

Unions are perfectly acceptable associations of individuals in a free society for a generally rational purpose. What upsets this equation is when the government attempts to intervene to tilt the playing field either towards employers or unions in their negotiations — but this is a government intervention issue, not a union issue per se.

 

[truefan]

how about just paying people what they are worth.
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And in your uninformed opinion, what do you think the auto workers are worth? Easy to make the statement, but making the determination is extrememly difficult. The UAW were overpaid, but by how much?


As usual the conservatives can see nothing positive, even though GM is starting to pay back their loans. AND anyone who thinks it would have been a good idea to let GM go bankrupt, doesn't have a clue

 

[paul1454]

And in your uninformed opinion, what do you think the auto workers are worth? Easy to make the statement, but making the determination is extrememly difficult. The UAW were overpaid, but by how much?


As usual the conservatives can see nothing positive, even though GM is starting to pay back their loans. AND anyone who thinks it would have been a good idea to let GM go bankrupt, doesn't have a clue

Really?

 

[truefan]

Really?

Yes

 

[Nash270]

Unions are perfectly acceptable associations of individuals in a free society for a generally rational purpose. What upsets this equation is when the government attempts to intervene to tilt the playing field either towards employers or unions in their negotiations — but this is a government intervention issue, not a union issue per se.

i can agree on that point, i just get tired of this idea that free market and unions are opposing sides. Unions are a outcome of a free market.

 

[Gramps]

how about just paying people what they are worth.
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What is an auto plant worker worth?

What is a shipping room clerk worth?

What is a truckdriver worth?

What is the store manager at Walmart worth?

What is a hedge fund manager worth?

What is a mortage banker worth?

What is a fast food worker worth?

What is a carpenter worth?

What is a plumber worth?

What is a bank teller worth?

What is a load officer worth?

What is store manager at a 7/11 worth?

What is the CEO of Goldman Sachs worth?

 

[MG1968]

What is an auto plant worker worth?

What is a shipping room clerk worth?

What is a truckdriver worth?

What is the store manager at Walmart worth?

What is a hedge fund manager worth?

What is a mortage banker worth?

What is a fast food worker worth?

What is a carpenter worth?

What is a plumber worth?

What is a bank teller worth?

What is a load officer worth?

What is store manager at a 7/11 worth?

What is the CEO of Goldman Sachs worth?

whatever the market will bear.

what's a "load" officer? sounds like a job for LG, considering all the BS he peddles.

 

[droski]

And in your uninformed opinion, what do you think the auto workers are worth? Easy to make the statement, but making the determination is extrememly difficult. The UAW were overpaid, but by how much?


As usual the conservatives can see nothing positive, even though GM is starting to pay back their loans. AND anyone who thinks it would have been a good idea to let GM go bankrupt, doesn't have a clue

the are worth what the market will bear. i.e worth whatever a competing company is willing to pay for them.

when GM goes bankrupt again because of the many tens of billions of union contracts and benefits what will you say then? sure obama bailed them out today, but what happens when the obligations from the unions come due? allowing gm to fail would have done little to the economy except break the unions. it's pathetic that obama covered his own ass like this.

 

[droski]

i can agree on that point, i just get tired of this idea that free market and unions are opposing sides. Unions are a outcome of a free market.

having the president in your pocket to make your union contracts whole at the expense of hundreds of years of US bankruptcy law while screwing the rightful owners (who would have sued and won if not for vile threats by the president) is the exact opposite of a free market.

 

[beergood]

What is an auto plant worker worth?

What is a shipping room clerk worth?

What is a truckdriver worth?

What is the store manager at Walmart worth?

What is a hedge fund manager worth?

What is a mortage banker worth?

What is a fast food worker worth?

What is a carpenter worth?

What is a plumber worth?

What is a bank teller worth?

What is a load officer worth?

What is store manager at a 7/11 worth?

What is the CEO of Goldman Sachs worth?

I can assure you that the guy driving the fork truck in an auto plant is not worth $25/hr. Neither is the person hitting stop and go on production presses, or the people that assemble stamped parts. orangeblooded will disagree because he is the local union steward, but any reasonable person can understand that a job that you can be trained to do effectively in a week is not worth 50K/yr compensation.

 

[Nash270]

having the president in your pocket to make your union contracts whole at the expense of hundreds of years of US bankruptcy law while screwing the rightful owners (who would have sued and won if not for vile threats by the president) is the exact opposite of a free market.

Yeah, i agree the unions have a firm grip on the democratic party.

Good thing republicans get no funding from special interest groups, or major companies. That is why we let the major banks fail.

I was not intending to make this political (left/right) with my previous comments, more of a theoretical statement about free markets.

 

[lumberjack4]

I can assure you that the guy driving the fork truck in an auto plant is not worth $25/hr. Neither is the person hitting stop and go on production presses, or the people that assemble stamped parts. orangeblooded will disagree because he is the local union steward, but any reasonable person can understand that a job that you can be trained to do effectively in a week is not worth 50K/yr compensation.

You rich bastage you...

 

[rjd970]

And in your uninformed opinion, what do you think the auto workers are worth? Easy to make the statement, but making the determination is extrememly difficult. The UAW were overpaid, but by how much?


As usual the conservatives can see nothing positive, even though GM is starting to pay back their loans. AND anyone who thinks it would have been a good idea to let GM go bankrupt, doesn't have a clue

There is a simple answer to that, and that fact that you think it is based on opinion says a lot.

 

[droski]

Yeah, i agree the unions have a firm grip on the democratic party.

Good thing republicans get no funding from special interest groups, or major companies. That is why we let the major banks fail.

I was not intending to make this political (left/right) with my previous comments, more of a theoretical statement about free markets.

you are really arguing these are comparable situations? What great terms did the banks get exactly? Obama didn't simply bail out GM he gave it directly to the unions.
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[beergood]

You rich bastage you...

I wish. I'm just a toolmaker that recognizes the waste and abuse that goes on in a typical union environment.

 

[truefan]

the are worth what the market will bear. i.e worth whatever a competing company is willing to pay for them.

when GM goes bankrupt again because of the many tens of billions of union contracts and benefits what will you say then? sure obama bailed them out today, but what happens when the obligations from the unions come due? allowing gm to fail would have done little to the economy except break the unions. it's pathetic that obama covered his own ass like this.

Do you have any idea the number of workers directly linked to GM's production? YOu don't. There are more companies who are nonunion that are affiliated with GM than ones that are unionized. Cars aren't built at the GM plants, they are built at the Tier 1 manufacturing facilities and most of these are nonunion. Had GM been forced to declare bankruptcy, the economic fallout in small town American would have been disasterous.

 

[truefan]

There is a simple answer to that, and that fact that you think it is based on opinion says a lot.

I know it isn't based on opinon. I spent 12 years costing automobiles for Nissan, Honda AND GM. I was trying to see what our resident stock broker thought about it.

 

[paul1454]

Do you have any idea the number of workers directly linked to GM's production? YOu don't. There are more companies who are nonunion that are affiliated with GM than ones that are unionized. Cars aren't built at the GM plants, they are built at the Tier 1 manufacturing facilities and most of these are nonunion. Had GM been forced to declare bankruptcy, the economic fallout in small town American would have been disasterous.

Bankruptcy wouldn't have stopped GM's production and killed those "small town" operations.

 

[beergood]

Do you have any idea the number of workers directly linked to GM's production? YOu don't. There are more companies who are nonunion that are affiliated with GM than ones that are unionized. Cars aren't built at the GM plants, they are built at the Tier 1 manufacturing facilities and most of these are nonunion. Had GM been forced to declare bankruptcy, the economic fallout in small town American would have been disasterous.

Any Tier One manufacturer that is supplying solely to GM, rather than diversifying and catering to OEMs across the board, deserves to be shut down for gross stupidity.

 

[droski]

Do you have any idea the number of workers directly linked to GM's production? YOu don't. There are more companies who are nonunion that are affiliated with GM than ones that are unionized. Cars aren't built at the GM plants, they are built at the Tier 1 manufacturing facilities and most of these are nonunion. Had GM been forced to declare bankruptcy, the economic fallout in small town American would have been disasterous.

And by what theory of yours does GM cease to exist in a bankruptcy?
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[truefan]

Any Tier One manufacturer that is supplying solely to GM, rather than diversifying and catering to OEMs across the board, deserves to be shut down for gross stupidity.

I would think there are only a small number who are 100% GM, but even those that are diversified, if they have a predominant GM contract, at least 50% of their business must be to them

 

[BigPapaVol]

And by what theory of yours does GM cease to exist in a bankruptcy?
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Duck! The student handbook is en route.

 

[lumberjack4]

Hate to tell you this but companies don't 'disappear' when they file for bankruptcy. They restructure and come out again. Look at Citibank (CIT). It was in bankruptcy for all of 38 days.