GM pays off its bailout loans

#51
#51
lumberjack4 said:
Hate to tell you this but companies don't 'disappear' when they file for bankruptcy. They restructure and come out again. Look at Citibank (CIT). It was in bankruptcy for all of 38 days.
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Don't come in here with facts, please. Everyone knows if GM declares bankruptcy that it will be as if that company never existed...
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#52
#52
truefan said:
I would think there are only a small number who are 100% GM, but even those that are diversified, if they have a predominant GM contract, at least 50% of their business must be to them
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I could be wrong, but I would imagine if they have a "predominant" contract with GM then that supplier would also be UAW organized.
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#53
#53
beergood said:
I can assure you that the guy driving the fork truck in an auto plant is not worth $25/hr. Neither is the person hitting stop and go on production presses, or the people that assemble stamped parts. orangeblooded will disagree because he is the local union steward, but any reasonable person can understand that a job that you can be trained to do effectively in a week is not worth 50K/yr compensation.
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What should they be making ?
 
#55
#55
This would have never been an issue had Bush not been elected. Sometimes you have sleep in the bed you made. Talk amongst yourselves.
 
#56
#56
OWB said:
This would have never been an issue had Bush not been elected. Sometimes you have sleep in the bed you made. Talk amongst yourselves.
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Just to be clear, what wouldn't be an issue: bailouts, the current administration's actions, or the financial crisis in general?
 
#57
#57
paul1454 said:
Just to be clear, what wouldn't be an issue: bailouts, the current administration's actions, or the financial crisis in general?
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Don't be silly. GM wouldn't be putting out shoddy products to make up for 40 years of pandering to unions over every decision.
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#60
#60
truefan said:
Do you have any idea the number of workers directly linked to GM's production? YOu don't. There are more companies who are nonunion that are affiliated with GM than ones that are unionized. Cars aren't built at the GM plants, they are built at the Tier 1 manufacturing facilities and most of these are nonunion. Had GM been forced to declare bankruptcy, the economic fallout in small town American would have been disasterous.
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Cars are built at the plants - the fact that Tier 1s take on much of the component assembly doesn't mean the cars are not built/assembled at the plants.

Can you provide data to show that most of the GM supply chain (Tier 1s in particular) are non-union? Plenty of Tier 1s are unionized. We have an old Delphi plant right down the road that is union through and through (and struggling BTW).
 
#62
#62
beergood said:
They should be making what uneducated, unskilled labor deserves to make. How much do you think that deserves?
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You reply to a question by asking a queston.

You are the one that said they don't deserve $50, 000 per year... What do they deserve?
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#63
#63
surely there's something between minimum wage and retirement packages that nearly bankrupt a company ...
 
#65
#65
Vols378 said:
You reply to a question by asking a queston.

You are the one that said they don't deserve $50, 000 per year... What do they deserve?
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Eagle Bend Mfg, a subsidy of Magna Corp, the worlds largest supplier of auto parts to OEMs, starts full time press operators out at around 12/hr. Top out wage is around 16/hr. That's very good money for unskilled labor. Most smaller places start in the 9-10/hr range and might top out at 12-13/hr. These wages are a long way from union rates in the mid 20's/hr.

Now let ask again...what do you feel they deserve to make?
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#66
#66
beergood said:
Eagle Bend Mfg, a subsidy of Magna Corp, the worlds largest supplier of auto parts to OEMs, starts full time press operators out at around 12/hr. Top out wage is around 16/hr. That's very good money for unskilled labor. Most smaller places start in the 9-10/hr range and might top out at 12-13/hr. These wages are a long way
from union rates in the mid 20's/hr.
Now let ask again...what do you feel they deserve to make?Posted via VolNation Mobile
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I think they should start out at $10-12
and top out $16-18. Union wages are
to high. At the same time several of the plants in my town are using temp services, hiring at $8-9per hour with no
benefits.
$8-9 is to cheap, that is extreme on the low side
 
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#68
#68
OWB said:
This would have never been an issue had Bush not been elected. Sometimes you have sleep in the bed you made. Talk amongst yourselves.
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right, because Al Gore would have banned the internal combustion engine and cars and trucks would now be running on a combination of faerie dust and unicorn farts.
 
#69
#69
MG1968 said:
right, because Al Gore would have banned the internal combustion engine and cars and trucks would now be running on a combination of faerie dust and unicorn farts.
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Good point about Gore being a looney toons idiot, and I live for the day I can piss on Kerry's tombstone.

Back to the GM payback.

No, not really.

The fact (which the news reports eventually point out, despite the misleading headlines and opening paragraphs) is that the US and Canadian governments poured $60 billion into GM. The vast majority of the bailout money was either forgiven or converted into post-bankruptcy ownership stake. The GM bailout is still expected to lose $36 billion--in other words, a 72% loss.

But perhaps more important is to ask where the $8.1 billion payback came from. Earlier this month, CNN Money reported that GM posted a $3.6 billion loss in fourth-quarter 2009. Even casting aside one-time expenses and various accounting complexities, the company was $600 million short of breaking even.

So how did a recently bankrupt company which is still hemorrhaging money pay back a multi-billion dollar loan five years early? Could it be that the mountain of bailout cash was much more than turned out to be necessary?
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In the real world this is known as outright FRAUD!!

But then democrats seem to have no trouble finding fools who will blindly cling to their every lie and will support them come hell or high water.
 
#71
#71
volinbham said:
Cars are built at the plants - the fact that Tier 1s take on much of the component assembly doesn't mean the cars are not built/assembled at the plants.

Can you provide data to show that most of the GM supply chain (Tier 1s in particular) are non-union? Plenty of Tier 1s are unionized. We have an old Delphi plant right down the road that is union through and through (and struggling BTW).
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Don't forget....true was a cost accountant for Nissan....he knows the auto industry inside and out!
 
#73
#73
T-TownVol said:
Don't forget....true was a cost accountant for Nissan....he knows the auto industry inside and out!
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Oh how could we forget ....... The only "accountant" in the entire US who doesn't know who Deloitte & Touche is.
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#74
#74
So not only was GM's self-pat on the back for paying back bailout money ridiculous in light of the fact that it only paid back a tiny portion of the total bailout (even though implying everything was now even) and they did so with other bailout money................they are now asking for another $10 million loan from the government? Absolutely ridiculous.

Sean McAlinden, chief economist at the Ann Arbor-based Center for Automotive Research, points out that the company has applied to the Department of Energy for $10 billion in low (5%) interest loan to retool its plants to meet the government's tougher new CAFÉ (Corporate Average Fuel Economy) standards.
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Forbes.com - Magazine Article
 
#75
#75
paul1454 said:
So not only was GM's self-pat on the back for paying back bailout money ridiculous in light of the fact that it only paid back a tiny portion of the total bailout (even though implying everything was now even) and they did so with other bailout money................they are now asking for another $10 million loan from the government? Absolutely ridiculous.



Forbes.com - Magazine Article
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That's not ridiculous. That's a CFO doing his job.
 
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