GOP breaking ranks ....

#1
lawgator1

lawgator1

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#1
Breaking news that at least 3 GOP senators will vote against the Ryan plan.

This Medicare thing is absolutely going to be hung around the neck of the GOP in the House in next elections.
 
#2
#2
lawgator1 said:
Breaking news that at least 3 GOP senators will vote against the Ryan plan.

This Medicare thing is absolutely going to be hung around the neck of the GOP in the House in next elections.
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Sad, because in the end, the cut needs to happen, along with SS and DoD spending.

We shouldn't expect anything to change until the crew on Capital Hill starts to vote based on what is needed, rather than what will get them re-elected.
 
#3
#3
We could get out of Iraq and Afghanistan and we wouldn't have to cut so damn much...
 
#4
#4
VOLatile said:
We could get out of Iraq and Afghanistan and we wouldn't have to cut so damn much...
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Is Iraq and Afghanistan in the same ballpark spending as Medicare and SS? Honest question....I didn't think it was.
 
#8
#8
I didn't say cut it all. Cuts need to happen across the board and gov't scaled back
 
#9
#9
VOLatile said:
We could get out of Iraq and Afghanistan and we wouldn't have to cut so damn much...
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I have to agree. We have to get out of Iraq by the end of this year, and stay no longer than a couple more years in Afghanistan. It would save several hundred billion...
 
#10
#10
I bet the 3 will suggest they are for serious reform - just not the exact version listed in the Ryan plan.
 
#11
#11
Of course it is not going to be popular. Whether I agree with the plan or not, changes have to be made -- and not for the sake of political gains. We have to swallow a little medicine and do something.
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#12
#12
bam15 said:
Of course it is not going to be popular. Whether I agree with the plan or not, changes have to be made -- and not for the sake of political gains. We have to swallow a little medicine and do something.
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Yep and that's ultimately the GOP bet - are people ready to discuss hard choices or not.

The Dem play to paint them as uncaring monsters is quite cynical IMHO. Such is politics.
 
#14
#14
volinbham said:
Yep and that's ultimately the GOP bet - are people ready to discuss hard choices or not.

The Dem play to paint them as uncaring monsters is quite cynical IMHO. Such is politics.
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A part of me says yes. The other part says our country is partially full of apolitical people who want status-quo, elderly people who will come out in droves against such plans, and others who will follow anything that the Dems or The President says. Of course, this goes both ways, but we are at such an ideological divide that I unfortunately come to the conclusion that common-sense, bipartisan legislation is almost a thing of the past. Frankly, a lot of people don't want to swallow their medicine, and this will be the downfall of our nation. We are living beyond our means and don't want to come to terms with our inevitable problems.
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#15
#15
bam15 said:
Entitlement spending is enormous.
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Yes - annual spending on Medicare and Medicaid = the total spent to date in Iraq (8 years) or 1/2 the amount spent in Afghanistan (10 years).

Here's some sobering data

Thus we see that Social Security and Medicare are underfunded relative to promised benefits by $56.4 trillion or 3.8 percent of G.D.P. per year forever. To put these programs on a sound footing, federal income taxes would have to rise from 6.2 percent of G.D.P. to 10 percent, an increase of 61 percent.
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The Real Social Security and Medicare Problem (and a Doable Fix) - NYTimes.com
 
#16
#16
bam15 said:
A part of me says yes. The other part says our country is partially full of apolitical people who want status-quo, elderly people who will come out in droves against such plans, and others who will follow anything that the Dems or The President says. Of course, this goes both ways, but we are at such an ideological divide that I unfortunately come to the conclusion that common-sense, bipartisan legislation is almost a thing of the past. Frankly, a lot of people don't want to swallow their medicine, and this will be the downfall of our nation. We are living beyond our means and don't want to come to terms with our inevitable problems.
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I agree with your assessment about the need for our medicine and hope your assessment of the populace's willingness to dicuss it is wrong.
 
#17
#17
lawgator1 said:
Breaking news that at least 3 GOP senators will vote against the Ryan plan.

This Medicare thing is absolutely going to be hung around the neck of the GOP in the House in next elections.
Click to expand...

let me guess, Snowe and Collins of Maine and Scott Brown in Massachusetts?

or, are there at least 3 GOP senators that will have tough re-elections next year who have been given the go-ahead by McConnell to vote no, just like Pelosi allowed a boatload of dems to vote against the healthcare bill.

What's truly amazing here is that the Ryan Plan is just that, a plan. It's not legislation, a vote for or against it isn't binding in any way. You (LG) groused over the right's focusing in on one aspect of Obama's Israel speech to the detriment of other, well reasoned points. Are you, and others, not doing the same thing regarding the Ryan plan? One would think that eventually you're going to be consistent in your political criticisms.
 
#18
#18
lawgator1 said:
Breaking news that at least 3 GOP senators will vote against the Ryan plan.

This Medicare thing is absolutely going to be hung around the neck of the GOP in the House in next elections.
Click to expand...

As it should be, but the Democrats are not blameless on the health care issue by a long margin.

How to reform Medicare? Medicare for All in a single payer system.

How to reform Social Security? Stop stealing from the kitty to pay for the wars.

How to balance the books? Progressive taxation with heavy cuts on defense, war, and police spending. Time to roll back the mess Reagan put us in.
 
#19
#19
Pawlenty was asked about it and said he'd have his own plan. Cantor said he would support a Ryan bid for presidency.

I think everyone is agreed that there have to be cuts and reforms in SS and Medicare for purposes of balancing the budget. But the Ryan plan does it in tandem with enormous tax breaks for the wealthiest. That was the mistake. Had he proposed reforms (not as harsh as those he actually put forward) along with a very modest tax increase on the wealthiest, the plan would have gotten a lot more support.

As is, the Democrats are rightfully warning seniors and seniors-to-be (its not a "scare tactic" if its true) that there will be sharp cuts in health care for them in their retirement years (not gradual and incremental, but sharp). They can also point out, correctly, that it would be done at the same time that the Republicans cut the tax burden on the wealthiest.

It was just idiotic politics by Ryan and the House GOP. They completely talked themselves into believing that everyone was on board with deep cuts in programs and also tax cuts, and they misread the situation, badly.
 
#20
#20
Isn't it about time Americans started planning for their own life after their career. I'm sick of this nanny-state crap. I am all for privatization of it all. Government needs to just get out of the way. Set a flat tax and be done with. It will never happen but that is what I would like to see.
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#21
#21
lawgator1 said:
I think everyone is agreed that there have to be cuts and reforms in SS and Medicare for purposes of balancing the budget. But the Ryan plan does it in tandem with enormous tax breaks for the wealthiest.
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please show me where any democrats, particurally obama, are saying there need to be cuts in SS and medicare. and i keep hearing there will be massive tax breaks for the wealthy, yet i've seen zero evidence to prove this.
 
#22
#22
droski said:
please show me where any democrats, particurally obama, are saying there need to be cuts in SS and medicare. and i keep hearing there will be massive tax breaks for the wealthy, yet i've seen zero evidence to prove this.
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Your wish .....


1) According to Fox News, Obama plan would cut Medicare spending by $500 billion. Sides Sharpen Medicare Attacks, but Both Plans Cut Benefits - FoxNews.com


2) The Ryan plan would cut corporate and the top personal rate to 25 %. News Headlines

In fact, Ryan's plan would cut taxes by $4.2 trillion, according to a chart in the proposal, itself.

A study by the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center shows that the wealthiest would receive all of these cuts -- in fact 117 % of the benefit goes to the top 1 percent of income earners. Indeed, the wealthiest 1 percent would receive a tax cut of roughly half of their current burden, while taxes would go up for 95 percent of the population. The Flimflam Man - NYTimes.com


The Democrats are not making up either the fact that there will have to be cuts in entitlements -- and Obama makes them -- nor are they making up that Ryan's plan does it by placing the entire burden of balancing the budget on cuts to programs while at the same time cutting taxes dramatically on the wealthiest.


The simple fact is that the TPers got into the House and Ryan came in with this plan and no one else had one. The conservative juggernaut, in their haste to criticize Obama and paint themselves as the level headed ones, insisted that all Republicans vote for the thing, and immediately.

They did not realize what they were signing onto. And now that its been figured out and people are rejecting at on a 4-1 basis, according to the most recent polls, the GOP candidates and soon-to-be candidates are running away from Ryan and his plan as though his head was on fire and he had Ebola virus.

I mean, my gosh, its so unpopular that the Democrats are the ones actually bringing it up for a vote in the Senate, to force the Republican members to either tie themselves to this albatross or further break ranks from the TPers.

Face it, politically speaking, the Ryan plan is an absolute gift to the Democrats in 2012 and an abject disaster for any Republican running for national office.
 
#23
#23
1. what a bunch of garbage. it doesn't cut medicare. it increases it with the proposed program. this is like arguing i'm going to cut your salary 50% but give you twice that in bonus and somehow i'm saving money

2. aren't you the person arguing all these rich people are getting away with skirting taxes? ryan wants to eliminate those things and you consider that a tax cut? really?
 
#24
#24
Ryan's budget plan wasn't even going to make a dent, so it really makes no difference. All these guys are pathetic.
 
#25
#25
lawgator1 said:
Breaking news that at least 3 GOP senators will vote against the Ryan plan.

This Medicare thing is absolutely going to be hung around the neck of the GOP in the House in next elections.
Click to expand...

Yes. The demagogury by Progressives will kill a plan that might have saved this benefit for future generations. You all are to be congratulated. Of course you have a plan, right? Yes. Same as everything else. Raise taxes or maybe just coast along until means testing becomes necessary. Means testing- code for if you have worked hard and paid for the program... you will have too much to be eligible for it. Never mind that increasing taxes will not and cannot work even if people were willing to pay it.

Just more evidence that the establishment GOP is every bit as bad as the Dem left. Yes. It will be "hung" around theire neck with abject lies like, "The Ryan plan would take away grandpa's healthcare" or the always popular, "Poor widows will have to choose between their food and their medicines".

Don't worry about the truth LG... don't even worry about the fact that this program is quickly going broke. All you need to worry about is effective propaganda so the Dems can impose more idiotic tax, borrow, and spend policies on the wealth producers of the country.
 
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