Graduation Rates for Top 25 Teams........

[hatvol96]

Of course it is a diversion for them. That's why they bail out when their draft report gets high enough. Then they get that big bonus, spend it, get hurt, fall to the wayside, and become nothing to themselves. I've just always had the belief that it is a contract, and if you accept a scholly from a school you are obligated to fulfill that scholly. Atleast then, when the average pro athlete plays the average numbers of years of an average pro athlete, he has a more than average chance of becoming something more on the outside from having been prepared. In essence they are getting paid. Everything it costs to attend school except for spending cash is provided. Plus they get way better meals than joe student. And, I'm not a bookworm. I'm a former athlete. Not one you've heard of.

The scholarship is year to year on the university's side. Why should the athlete owe them more than they are providing in return?

 

[lawgator1]

I figured you would be gloating LG.:question: What are you guys hiding down there? I'll have my private investigator to check in on that too while he's trying to figure out how Marcus Thomas had such a time lapse between drug test, which are normally 4 weeks apart, not approximately 45 days.:whistling: see attached
Marcus Thomas Scouting Report - 2007 NFL Draft Prospect

Dude, I'm not gloating. I'm saying the Florida rate could be a function of coddling athletes, easy classes, or maybe they use tutors and really push them. I just don't know. And neither do you. And neither do the people who assembled these statistics. That is one reason that comparing graduation rates across different institutions, with different ways they treat players, is so intellectually bankrupt.

As to Marcus Thomas, you lost. Get over it.

 

[GVF]

The scholarship is year to year on the university's side. Why should the athlete owe them more than they are providing in return?

Technically speaking of course. In reality, have you ever seen an incoming full ride freshman lose that scholly just because the U didn't want to renew it. Other than violations from the athlete. Generally speaking, it is an offer for the duration of eligibility. It is a rare occurance, indeed, to rescind schollies.


Like I said, it's just my opinion that it's an honor code. It should be honored.

 

[GVF]

The scholarship is year to year on the university's side. Why should the athlete owe them more than they are providing in return?

Let's take your hit on Munoz from the other thread. He didn't get drafted. Not even sure he a made a free agent contract or practice squad at that. Let's say he had left as a junior w/o degree in hand. Where would he be then. Not that you HAVE to have a degree to be successfull. But, most of these guys really need the degree to fall back on. It's their only proof they may have attended a class.

 

[hatvol96]

Technically speaking of course. In reality, have you ever seen an incoming full ride freshman lose that scholly just because the U didn't want to renew it. Other than violations from the athlete. Generally speaking, it is an offer for the duration of eligibility. It is a rare occurance, indeed, to rescind schollies.

Yes. many times. In basketball in particular, coaches come in and clean house. Larry Eustachy is one of the primary practitioners of that method. Rick Pitino and Bob Knight are two other notable coaches who have pulled scholarships for performance reasons. Mike Stoops did a lot of it at Arizona. It's not that uncommon.

 

[hatvol96]

Let's take your hit on Munoz from the other thread. He didn't get drafted. Not even sure he a made a free agent contract or practice squad at that. Let's say he had left as a junior w/o degree in hand. Where would he be then. Not that you HAVE to have a degree to be successfull. But, most of these guys really need the degree to fall back on. It's their only proof they may have attended a class.

Would there have been something stopping him from coming back to school? That's a rather tepid arguement.

 

[GVF]

Yes. many times. In basketball in particular, coaches come in and clean house. Larry Eustachy is one of the primary practitioners of that method. Rick Pitino and Bob Knight are two other notable coaches who have pulled scholarships for performance reasons. Mike Stoops did a lot of it at Arizona. It's not that uncommon.

Maybe not in BBall. It does not get publicity in D1 Football anyway. And you are also citing some elite coaches. Outside a select group, I'd not expect to see too much of it. I have no problem with it from a performance standpoint, or disciplinary. But, if a player is working hard, and not dogging it, he deserves it. I can see Knight killing a scholly.

 

[utchatt]

Would there have been something stopping him from coming back to school? That's a rather tepid arguement.

I would just like to see our players be champions in the classroom the same way they are on the field. I have players in my classroom and I stress the importance of why they are here. Thier primary focus should be school but all to often they think they are going to beat the odds and make it to the pros. I remind my students that with out the universities there would be no teams.

 

[hatvol96]

Maybe not in BBall. It does not get publicity in D1 Football anyway. And you are also citing some elite coaches. Outside a select group, I'd not expect to see too much of it. I have no problem with it from a performance standpoint, or disciplinary. But, if a player is working hard, and not dogging it, he deserves it. I can see Knight killing a scholly.

Those were just a few examples. Almost anytime you have a coaching change in D-I football or basketball, you're going to have some level of scholarship recission. Sometimes, as in the case of the Matthew Dotson, the player and coach make it seem mutual to allow the kid to save face.

 

[GVF]

Would there have been something stopping him from coming back to school? That's a rather tepid arguement.

It shouldn't stop him or anyone else. I guess we should use another example before I get slammed for thinking he didn't graduate. It's a either way you like it viewpoint, but I 've always just viewed it as such, and still feel it's an obligation and honor to fulfill the scholly. There's nothing paranormal to it. Unless a player violates a code of conduct or fails performance measures as used by Knight and company, the U should also honor the offer.

 

[hatvol96]

I would just like to see our players be champions in the classroom the same way they are on the field. I have players in my classroom and I stress the importance of why they are here. Thier primary focus should be school but all to often they think they are going to beat the odds and make it to the pros. I remind my students that with out the universities there would be no teams.

Then you should be a huge Bob Knight fan. There's not a coach in college athletics who stresses academics more than the General.

 

[utchatt]

Then you should be a huge Bob Knight fan. There's not a coach in college athletics who stresses academics more than the General.

It is funny you say that because I was a teaching assistant at IU while he was still coaching there.

 

[hatvol96]

It shouldn't stop him or anyone else. I guess we should use another example before I get slammed for thinking he didn't graduate. It's a either way you like it viewpoint, but I 've always just viewed it as such, and still feel it's an obligation and honor to fulfill the scholly. There's nothing paranormal to it. Unless a player violates a code of conduct or fails performance measures as used by Knight and company, the U should also honor the offer.

Even though I'm a huge Bob Kight fan, I believe as long as the player does their academic work and steers clear of trouble they should retain their scholarship. If a player can't perform at a certain level, that's on the coach. They recruited the young man. If they made a mistake in judging the player's talent, that should be one they have to live with.

 

[GVF]

Those were just a few examples. Almost anytime you have a coaching change in D-I football or basketball, you're going to have some level of scholarship recission. Sometimes, as in the case of the Matthew Dotson, the player and coach make it seem mutual to allow the kid to save face.

True, and it's not a foolproof theory of mine. Certainly not one that can be enacted fairly from the broader viewpoint. It's just a verbal committment from the onset, and those should be good. You'll always have no fault bad fits where one does need to transfer, as one example.

 

[GVF]

Even though I'm a huge Bob Kight fan, I believe as long as the player does their academic work and steers clear of trouble they should retain their scholarship. If a player can't perform at a certain level, that's on the coach. They recruited the young man. If they made a mistake in judging the player's talent, that should be one they have to live with.

That is more than valid. The punishment as long as you are meeting all your base expectations is just not starting or getting significant playing time.

 

[FLG8tor]

Graduation Rate is such an over-hyped statistic, and is painted with a negative stigma before justifying why people are deciding to leave school on each individual basis.

Let's stick with Football first. Like another post said, school is a diversion, yet it's a necessary one for a player to get to the NFL. If you come from a lower income situation, or even middle class on a scholarship, and you are told you can make 7 figures by leaving for the next level, in most situations you'd be an idiot NOT to take the money and run, rather than risk an injury by staying put.

It's not an insult to the school, nor a knock on the student athletes' academic aptitude, it's a real life business decision!

What is the purpose for college? To prepare students for life and to be able to make a decent enough living for yourself and family. Society as a whole shows a bitterness (or jealousy) towards athletes who go pro early, because they make a ton of money quick, whereas the normal "athletically un-gifted folk" have to spend 4-6 years for a BS and\or MBA to get to a point where they can make ends meet.

Who's keeping track of the normal working student who quits after a couple of years because they fell into a good job situation?

Some of these people, (including athletes) do come back to get degrees later on. (Michael Vick)

One final thing. Those percentages would be WAY lower for overall athletics if their sport had a lucrative professional league. Vollyball players, swimmers, etc. are staying in school because there is NO OTHER option for them like football, baseball and basketball. (Even Hockey in the Northeast) But don't think for a minute, that if there WAS such a light at the end of the tunnel for these other sports, they'd be leaving early too.

These percentages are meaningless.

 

[utchatt]

That is more than valid. The punishment as long as you are meeting all your base expectations is just not starting or getting significant playing time.

Unfortunatley there has been a large amount of my students who say that a college degree will not help them in the pros. Now there are the obvious players that are going to get drafted, I have no problem with them leaving for the pros. However my concern is for the players that have NFL aspirations but D1 AA talent. Those are the kids that slip through the cracks. I have actually had students who said to me why do I need to pick a major now I am only going to be here three years. And at the end of the second year and they have hardly sniffed the playing field they come to us with sob stories of the classes they need to get into. It is very frustrating.

 

[utchatt]

Graduation Rate is such an over-hyped statistic, and is painted with a negative stigma before justifying why people are deciding to leave school on each individual basis.

Let's stick with Football first. Like another post said, school is a diversion, yet it's a necessary one for a player to get to the NFL. If you come from a lower income situation, or even middle class on a scholarship, and you are told you can make 7 figures by leaving for the next level, in most situations you'd be an idiot NOT to take the money and run, rather than risk an injury by staying put.

It's not an insult to the school, nor a knock on the student athletes' academic aptitude, it's a real life business decision!

What is the purpose for college? To prepare students for life and to be able to make a decent enough living for yourself and family. Society as a whole shows a bitterness (or jealousy) towards athletes who go pro early, because they make a ton of money quick, whereas the normal "athletically un-gifted folk" have to spend 4-6 years for a BS and\or MBA to get to a point where they can make ends meet.

Who's keeping track of the normal working student who quits after a couple of years because they fell into a good job situation?

Some of these people, (including athletes) do come back to get degrees later on. (Michael Vick)

One final thing. Those percentages would be WAY lower for overall athletics if their sport had a lucrative professional league. Vollyball players, swimmers, etc. are staying in school because there is NO OTHER option for them like football, baseball and basketball. (Even Hockey in the Northeast) But don't think for a minute, that if there WAS such a light at the end of the tunnel for these other sports, they'd be leaving early too.

These percentages are meaningless.

School should not be a diversion, it should be a priority. If you can leave early and be drafted that is great and the best of luck to you. But as much as they are expected to be great athlete's they are also expected to be great students.

 

[GVF]

Unfortunatley there has been a large amount of my students who say that a college degree will not help them in the pros. Now there are the obvious players that are going to get drafted, I have no problem with them leaving for the pros. However my concern is for the players that have NFL aspirations but D1 AA talent. Those are the kids that slip through the cracks. I have actually had students who said to me why do I need to pick a major now I am only going to be here three years. And at the end of the second year and they have hardly sniffed the playing field they come to us with sob stories of the classes they need to get into. It is very frustrating.

No offense intended because I know alot of pro talent regardless of sport does come from other than D1. There will be a respectable amount come from smaller programs. Even DII, and DIII. But, proportionately speaking as an athlete, I'd be more optimistic about making the pros through Grand Valley State than UTChatt.

 

[utchatt]

No offense intended because I know alot of pro talent regardless of sport does come from other than D1. There will be a respectable amount come from smaller programs. Even DII, and DIII. But, proportionately speaking as an athlete, I'd be more optimistic about making the pros through Grand Valley State than UTChatt.

Why Grand Valley State ? (Just curious) But I am not refering to my current school I taught at three other universities before coming here, and the are D 1 schools.

 

[utchatt]

No offense intended because I know alot of pro talent regardless of sport does come from other than D1. There will be a respectable amount come from smaller programs. Even DII, and DIII. But, proportionately speaking as an athlete, I'd be more optimistic about making the pros through Grand Valley State than UTChatt.

By the way I am willing to bet there will not be a player from this team make it to the pros.

 

[volfan2024]

Dude, I'm not gloating. I'm saying the Florida rate could be a function of coddling athletes, easy classes, or maybe they use tutors and really push them. I just don't know. And neither do you. And neither do the people who assembled these statistics. That is one reason that comparing graduation rates across different institutions, with different ways they treat players, is so intellectually bankrupt.

As to Marcus Thomas, you lost. Get over it.

Gosh LG, you're awfully touchy today.My message was that you actually weren't gloating.As far as Marcus Thomas,what's over?If there are no incrimminating facts,I wouldn't sweat the small stuff.Who knows for sure.If you can get away with shooting illegal firearms in illegal places, surely you can squeak pass this one.This is little league .

 

[volfan2024]

Gators graduate on time | Gainesville.com | The Gainesville Sun | Gainesville, Fla.

 

[lawgator1]

Gosh LG, you're awfully touchy today.My message was that you actually weren't gloating.As far as Marcus Thomas,what's over?If there are no incrimminating facts,I wouldn't sweat the small stuff.Who knows for sure.If you can get away with shooting illegal firearms in illegal places, surely you can squeak pass this one.This is little league .

On first point, oh, okay, misunderstood. My apologies.

On Thomas, now I have to kill you. You know full well that I am deeply troubled by that shooting incident and have my doubts about whether the right result was reached. But I confess I don't know everything I need to know to make a judgment. Suffice it to say, any time there's kids and guns like these involved -- even if innocent in that particular incident -- I am VERY worried about what else is going on.

As to Thomas, I know even less. All I know is he failed two tests, was suspended after the first and has been suspended after the second. There are now two different issues at work.

The first is whether the appropriate coaching staff person was aware of the second positive result before the UT game such that an argument can be made that he ought to have been suspended earlier. I don't know if that is the case. Haven't seen anything on it. If you have, I'd like to read it because it does make a difference to me and would bother me if they "sat" on that result just to play him against UT. (I am NOT saying, even if that were true, that UT has a right to complain. As indicated here before, the rules at issue are internal and not inended to benefit the opposition. What would bother me is the principle whereby acting on the result is delayed for competitive reasons.)

The second issue is whether the second positive result relfects the same usage for which he got suspended after the first positive result. He is claiming that. There is an appeal. Last I heard they were going to go back and re-analyze the samples to see if that might be the case. If you know the result, I'd like to know it, too. If he's lying, as good a football player as he is, good riddance. In fact, I'd suspend him for the entire year for lying in the appeal, if in fact that were the case.

 

[GVF]

Why Grand Valley State ? (Just curious) But I am not refering to my current school I taught at three other universities before coming here, and the are D 1 schools.

Grand Valley State= DII power from Mich. 4of5 or 5of6 last DII NC's.