Greatest Athlete to never win highest Championship of their Sport

#1
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rockydoc

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#1
One poster on this board (won't mention his name :banghead: ) constantly puts down PM because of his failure to win a college national championship and so far not a NFL ring.

I got to thinking of great athletes that for one reason or another never reached the pinnacle of their sports during my five decade life. Of course Earnie Banks of the hapless Cubs as well as Dan Marino come to mind, but the person that I think of is Jim Ryun who would have to be regarded as the best middle distance runner in track and field history.(His high school record mile time of 3:55.3 stood for 36 years).

Jim Ryun, in the late 60's and early 70's was a sports phenom, equal to Tiger Woods and Lance Armstrong today, setting world records in the mile that persisted for years. Though Ryun ran in 3 Olympics (64, 68 and 72) he never got the ultimate prize; a gold medal! He only got a silver in the 68 olympics in the high altitude of Mexico City.

If you call Jim Ryun a failure to people that lived and remember him then you run the risk of being called a Lunatic! Same way with Peyton, I don't care if he doesn't win the a Super Bowl or not, he will go down as one of the best college and pro QB ever! :gun:
 
#5
#5
Barry Sanders, Charles Barkley, Carl Yazstremski . . .
 
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I was about to say Eric "Butterbean" Esch but I double checked his bio and learned that he was the IBC intl. super heavyweight champion for awhile in 1996.
 
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(rockydoc @ Jul 2 said:
One poster on this board (won't mention his name :banghead: ) constantly puts down PM because of his failure to win a college national championship and so far not a NFL ring.

I got to thinking of great athletes that for one reason or another never reached the pinnacle of their sports during my five decade life. Of course Earnie Banks of the hapless Cubs as well as Dan Marino come to mind, but the person that I think of is Jim Ryun who would have to be regarded as the best middle distance runner in track and field history.(His high school record mile time of 3:55.3 stood for 36 years).

Jim Ryun, in the late 60's and early 70's was a sports phenom, equal to Tiger Woods and Lance Armstrong today, setting world records in the mile that persisted for years. Though Ryun ran in 3 Olympics (64, 68 and 72) he never got the ultimate prize; a gold medal! He only got a silver in the 68 olympics in the high altitude of Mexico City.

If you call Jim Ryun a failure to people that lived and remember him then you run the risk of being called a Lunatic! Same way with Peyton, I don't care if he doesn't win the a Super Bowl or not, he will go down as one of the best college and pro QB ever! :gun:
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Would someone explain to me how pointing out a significant hole in someone's resume is "putting him down?" So, Doc, if someone applies for a residency at your hospital, but didn't attend medical school, refusing to hire them is being unfair? Those who constantly beat the drum of Manning's greatness need to face a simple fact of modern American sports. To be considered truly great, you've got to win a championship. The NBA is a great example of this phenomenon. Barkley, Ewing, and Malone will always fall below Olajuwon for a simple reason, Dream won two rings. I would also like someone to find a single post where I have called The Starting Quarterback at the University of Tennessee-Knoxville from 1994-97 a "failure." I've simply pointed out that he has not helped his teams achieve ultimate success.
 
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(checkerboard_charly @ Jul 2 said:
Barry Bonds

any great cubs player

Hank Aaron
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Hank Aaron was on the 1957 World Champion Milwaukee Braves.
 
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(hatvol96 @ Jul 2 said:
Would someone explain to me how pointing out a significant hole in someone's resume is "putting him down?" So, Doc, if someone applies for a residency at your hospital, but didn't attend medical school, refusing to hire them is being unfair? Those who constantly beat the drum of Manning's greatness need to face a simple fact of modern American sports. To be considered truly great, you've got to win a championship. The NBA is a great example of this phenomenon. Barkley, Ewing, and Malone will always fall below Olajuwon for a simple reason, Dream won two rings. I would also likw someone to find a single post where I have called The Starting Quarterback at the University of Tennessee-Knoxville from 1994-97 a "failure." I've simply pointed out that he has not helped his teams achieve ultimate success.
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sure, when you put it like that.......... :biggrin2:
 
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The difference is, IN YOUR EYES, someone must win a championship to be great. That's not the way it is in everyone's eyes, and this thread is the best thing I have seen to show the difference between you and the other Vol fans.

You Hat, and others like you, think the Vols must win a Championship every year, or every 2 years, or whatever your magic number is today. (Yes I know, it hasn't happened in 7 Years.)

Other Vol fans like myself are VERY HAPPY with the Vols competing each season. Winning 10 games or so, winning a bowl game, recruiting some guys we all wanna see play in the Big Orange, and just otherwise be something we can go with our familes to see, and HAVE A FUN TIME.

It's not ALL about Championships. It isn't ALL about Championships with the Vols, and it isn't ALL about Championships with guys like Marino, Barkley, Malone, Yaz, etc. It's about these men touching our lives and entertaining us. It's about taking our friends and families to GAMES and watching these men PLAY their game, and leaving being happy what we saw, or not being happy, but knowing "They'd get them next time".

I know you are entitled to your opinion on the Vols, and Manning, and the rest of this thread, but I also know that myself and those that agree with me, have a right to just simply ENJOY THE GAME without being called names and being constantly talked down to, because we don't hold Championships in as high a place as you.
 
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Not that he was the greatest but I felt the need to put Jim Kelly's name into the conversation.
 
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(OrangeSquare @ Jul 2 said:
The difference is, IN YOUR EYES, someone must win a championship to be great. That's not the way it is in everyone's eyes, and this thread is the best thing I have seen to show the difference between you and the other Vol fans.

You Hat, and others like you, think the Vols must win a Championship every year, or every 2 years, or whatever your magic number is today. (Yes I know, it hasn't happened in 7 Years.)

Other Vol fans like myself are VERY HAPPY with the Vols competing each season. Winning 10 games or so, winning a bowl game, recruiting some guys we all wanna see play in the Big Orange, and just otherwise be something we can go with our familes to see, and HAVE A FUN TIME.

It's not ALL about Championships. It isn't ALL about Championships with the Vols, and it isn't ALL about Championships with guys like Marino, Barkley, Malone, Yaz, etc. It's about these men touching our lives and entertaining us. It's about taking our friends and families to GAMES and watching these men PLAY their game, and leaving being happy what we saw, or not being happy, but knowing "They'd get them next time".

I know you are entitled to your opinion on the Vols, and Manning, and the rest of this thread, but I also know that myself and those that agree with me, have a right to just simply ENJOY THE GAME without being called names and being constantly talked down to, because we don't hold Championships in as high a place as you.
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I have no problem with that at all. Just be up front about the fact that you're more concerned with your entertainment than you are with the program being excellent.
 
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(OrangeSquare @ Jul 2 said:
NO ONE'S PROGRAM IS "EXCELLENT".

You have VERY unreal expectations.
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Oklahoma-Excellent.
USC-Excellent.
Miami-Excellent.
Ohio State-Excellent.
There are some others, for example Texas, who are on the cusp. I don't see where expecting a program to consistently be one of the top 3-4 teams in their league, win a conference title every 4 years, and contend nationally in their best years is unrealistic. Your expectations are far too low. Were this Oklahoma, SC, or Texas, we wouldn't be having a discussion on Fulmer because he would no longer be the coach. If the fan base doesn't demand results, they don't get them. You get the program you deserve. Given the attitudes of our fan base, 5-6 is exactly what we deserve.
 
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(hatvol96 @ Jul 2 said:
Oklahoma-Excellent.
USC-Excellent.
Miami-Excellent.
Ohio State-Excellent.
There are some others, for example Texas, who are on the cusp. I don't see where expecting a program to consistently be one of the top 3-4 teams in their league, win a conference title every 4 years, and contend nationally in their best years is unrealistic. Your expectations are far too low. Were this Oklahoma, SC, or Texas, we wouldn't be having a discussion on Fulmer because he would no longer be the coach. If the fan base doesn't demand results, they don't get them. You get the program you deserve. Given the attitudes of our fan base, 5-6 is exactly what we deserve.
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I don't think any of those programs would meet your expectations of excellence over a long term. Those teams have all had stretches of losing.

Also, note that none of them play in the nation's best conference, the SEC. :)
 
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(hatvol96 @ Jul 2 said:
Would someone explain to me how pointing out a significant hole in someone's resume is "putting him down?" So, Doc, if someone applies for a residency at your hospital, but didn't attend medical school, refusing to hire them is being unfair? Those who constantly beat the drum of Manning's greatness need to face a simple fact of modern American sports. To be considered truly great, you've got to win a championship. The NBA is a great example of this phenomenon. Barkley, Ewing, and Malone will always fall below Olajuwon for a simple reason, Dream won two rings. I would also like someone to find a single post where I have called The Starting Quarterback at the University of Tennessee-Knoxville from 1994-97 a "failure." I've simply pointed out that he has not helped his teams achieve ultimate success.
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Then with your logic the converse must be true that guys like Doug Williams, Jim Plunkett must be hall of fame QB's and much, much better QB's than Manning and Marino since they won super bowls just as Buck Belew has to be a better college QB than Manning since he led UGA to a national championship.

Sheezeee! I now see why you guys won't allow engineer, physicians and other professionals who use scientific principles of thinking on juries!! :dunno:

 
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#23
Also add Ted Williams to the list (one of the greatest baseball players of all time)
 
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(vol_freak @ Jul 2 said:
I don't think any of those programs would meet your expectations of excellence over a long term. Those teams have all had stretches of losing.

Also, note that none of them play in the nation's best conference, the SEC. :)
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I'll take Oklahoma as an example. With the notable exception of the Gibbs/Schnellenberger/Blake debacle, they've been consistently winning conference titles and competing for national honors for the better part of 60 years. What did they do when they weren't getting production? Did they whine around with mediocre coaches? No, they sent those guys on their way until they got it right with Stoops. They demand excellence and receive excellence. Funny how that works.
 
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(rockydoc @ Jul 2 said:
Then with your logic the converse must be true that guys like Doug Williams, Jim Plunkett must be hall of fame QB's and much, much better QB's than Manning and Marino since they won super bowls just as Buck Belew has to be a better college QB than Manning since he led UGA to a national championship.

Sheezeee! I now see why you guys won't allow engineer, physicians and other professionals who use scientific principles of thinking on juries!! :dunno:
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A cute theory, but simplistic and inaccurate. Williams, Plunkett, and Belew are not great because they don't have anything other than championships to indicate they should be considered so. Typical defense of Manning. At least you are creative enough not to drag out the tired, trite Trent Dilfer comparison. As an aside, we keep engineers, physicians, and other professionals off juries because we simply don't like them.
 
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