Greatest Athlete to never win highest Championship of their Sport

#26
#26
(hatvol96 @ Jul 2 said:
A cute theory, but simplistic and inaccurate. Williams, Plunkett, and Belew are not great because they don't have anything other than championships to indicate they should be considered so. Typical defense of Manning. At least you are creative enough not to drag out the tired, trite Trent Dilfer comparison. As an aside, we keep engineers, physicians, and other professionals off juries because we simply don't like them.
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At least you are honest, WRONG, but nevertheless honest!! :bow:
 
#27
#27
(rockydoc @ Jul 2 said:
At least you are honest, WRONG, but nevertheless honest!! :bow:
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Actually, anyone in sales, politics, trial law, etc., will tell you it's easier to work with a less formally educated audience. They aren't less intelligent, they just come to the table with fewer preconceived notions. I actually like doctors. Their mistakes make lawyers a great deal of money.
 
#28
#28
(hatvol96 @ Jul 2 said:
I'll take Oklahoma as an example. With the notable exception of the Gibbs/Schnellenberger/Blake debacle, they've been consistently winning conference titles and competing for national honors for the better part of 60 years. What did they do when they weren't getting production? Did they whine around with mediocre coaches? No, they sent those guys on their way until they got it right with Stoops. They demand excellence and receive excellence. Funny how that works.
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Funny, the PRO Tennessee crowd uses history to talk about how good we are, and you come back with ONLY RECENT HISTORY MATTERS, ONLY THE LAST SEVEN YEARS MATTER, BLAH BLAH BLAH.......

I saw someone post on here the other day, how we are the winningest program in the country since Robert Neyland came on board, and you countered with....

You're right. I can't think of anything more important to getting the program back on track than the result of a game against Sewanee in the 1930s.
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So, WHICH IS IT? Are the programs you listed "excellent" BECAUSE of thier history, or does their history......"games against Sewanee in the 1930's" not have ANYTHING to do with where their program is currently?

Wiggle out of this one......We're waiting.
 
#30
#30
(OrangeSquare @ Jul 2 said:
Funny, the PRO Tennessee crowd uses history to talk about how good we are, and you come back with ONLY RECENT HISTORY MATTERS, ONLY THE LAST SEVEN YEARS MATTER, BLAH BLAH BLAH.......

I saw someone post on here the other day, how we are the winningest program in the country since Robert Neyland came on board, and you countered with....
So, WHICH IS IT? Are the programs you listed "excellent" BECAUSE of thier history, or does their history......"games against Sewanee in the 1930's" not have ANYTHING to do with where their program is currently?

Wiggle out of this one......We're waiting.
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My patience with your silliness is now shot. Oklahoma has consistently, except for the small window I mentioned in the earlier post, been winning conference titles and competing for National Championships. While the "I'm just concerned about eating popcorn, watching the band, and being entertained" crowd, which you are apparently the spokesman for, doesn't grasp that championships are why you keep score, some of us in fact do. Count National and conference championships. Oklahoma dwarfs UT in these accomplishments. When they hit a lull in the late '80s and through the '90s, did they say "Oh well, at least the cheerleaders are pretty, the hot dogs are fresh, and my kids enjoyed the pretty colors at the game?" No, they made heads roll until they got back to their rightful place among the pantheon of college football's elite. Where is Oklahoma's program in comparison to UT's now? History is a convenient foxhole for those who are content with the current state of the program. Wave it proudly. I'm sure you'll be "entertained" this year. Fans like you are why UT deserves nothing more than Peach/Music City Bowl seasons.
 
#31
#31
(OrangeSquare @ Jul 2 said:
Funny, the PRO Tennessee crowd uses history to talk about how good we are, and you come back with ONLY RECENT HISTORY MATTERS, ONLY THE LAST SEVEN YEARS MATTER, BLAH BLAH BLAH.......

I saw someone post on here the other day, how we are the winningest program in the country since Robert Neyland came on board, and you countered with....
So, WHICH IS IT? Are the programs you listed "excellent" BECAUSE of thier history, or does their history......"games against Sewanee in the 1930's" not have ANYTHING to do with where their program is currently?

Wiggle out of this one......We're waiting.
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Look at Oklahoma's last seven years. They've been pretty good. Or did you miss that while you were being "entertained" to the tune of 5-6 last season?
 
#32
#32
(hatvol96 @ Jul 2 said:
Actually, anyone in sales, politics, trial law, etc., will tell you it's easier to work with a less formally educated audience. They aren't less intelligent, they just come to the table with fewer preconceived notions. I actually like doctors. Their mistakes make lawyers a great deal of money.
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True, but their input helps attorney's win workman compensation claims against companies though.
 
#33
#33
(hatvol96 @ Jul 2 said:
Look at Oklahoma's last seven years. They've been pretty good. Or did you miss that while you were being "entertained" to the tune of 5-6 last season?
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Why stop at 7? Lets do the full 8 years that Stoops has been at Oklahoma.

Stoops has gone 75-16, Fulmer has gone 74-26. Wasn't it also you saying earlier that it's easier to "pad" your numbers if you have less attempts? Looks like Oklahoma has attempted several games less than Tennesse over the eight yr span, so I guess this isn't really a fair comparison is it?

While we are at it though, do you really want to compare the SEC East with the Big12 South? Come on now. They won one more game, against FAR weaker opponents, and suddenly they are "Excellent" and Tennessee needs a new coach?

Give us all a break.
 
#34
#34
(hatvol96 @ Jul 2 said:
My patience with your silliness is now shot. Oklahoma has consistently, except for the small window I mentioned in the earlier post, been winning conference titles and competing for National Championships. While the "I'm just concerned about eating popcorn, watching the band, and being entertained" crowd, which you are apparently the spokesman for, doesn't grasp that championships are why you keep score, some of us in fact do. Count National and conference championships. Oklahoma dwarfs UT in these accomplishments. When they hit a lull in the late '80s and through the '90s, did they say "Oh well, at least the cheerleaders are pretty, the hot dogs are fresh, and my kids enjoyed the pretty colors at the game?" No, they made heads roll until they got back to their rightful place among the pantheon of college football's elite. Where is Oklahoma's program in comparison to UT's now? History is a convenient foxhole for those who are content with the current state of the program. Wave it proudly. I'm sure you'll be "entertained" this year. Fans like you are why UT deserves nothing more than Peach/Music City Bowl seasons.
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You are back to PROVING my point that YOU want Championships as the ONLY gage of where a program stands, simply because when you're in South Beach, wearing a team's colors, you want it to be a team that has recently won, as opposed to "simply" winning 10-11 games.
 
#35
#35
(utfantilidie @ Jul 2 said:
Dale Murphy - Atlanta Braves - NL MVP 1982,1983
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Hate to break the news to you, but Dale Murphy is mostly likely going to be left out of the hall of fame too.
 
#36
#36
(OrangeSquare @ Jul 2 said:
Why stop at 7? Lets do the full 8 years that Stoops has been at Oklahoma.

Stoops has gone 75-16, Fulmer has gone 74-26. Wasn't it also you saying earlier that it's easier to "pad" your numbers if you have less attempts? Looks like Oklahoma has attempted several games less than Tennesse over the eight yr span, so I guess this isn't really a fair comparison is it?

While we are at it though, do you really want to compare the SEC East with the Big12 South? Come on now. They won one more game, against FAR weaker opponents, and suddenly they are "Excellent" and Tennessee needs a new coach?

Give us all a break.
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It would be hard to do eight years, given that Stoops has only been at OU for seven. Stops won 75 games in 7 seasons. In those same seven seasons, Fulmer won 61 games. Guess your comparison doesn't bear out your ridiculous premise. Sorry, try again.
 
#37
#37
(OrangeSquare @ Jul 2 said:
Why stop at 7? Lets do the full 8 years that Stoops has been at Oklahoma.

Stoops has gone 75-16, Fulmer has gone 74-26. Wasn't it also you saying earlier that it's easier to "pad" your numbers if you have less attempts? Looks like Oklahoma has attempted several games less than Tennesse over the eight yr span, so I guess this isn't really a fair comparison is it?

While we are at it though, do you really want to compare the SEC East with the Big12 South? Come on now. They won one more game, against FAR weaker opponents, and suddenly they are "Excellent" and Tennessee needs a new coach?

Give us all a break.
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Stoops became the coach in 1999. You should really do your homework.
 
#38
#38
(hatvol96 @ Jul 2 said:
It would be hard to do eight years, given that Stoops has only been at OU for seven. Stops won 75 games in 7 seasons. In those same seven seasons, Fulmer won 61 games. Guess your comparison doesn't bear out your ridiculous premise. Sorry, try again.
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My appologies. I yield certainly, to the only OU fan on this site. This season will be Stoops 8th as opposed to him completing 8 already. Guess it's lucky for you that Stoops 7 years stops short of Phil's 13-0 season, which would certainly narrow the gap between two of your many "favorite teams". Even at that.... you want us all to believe that the difference in one season, and only 14 games makes the difference between "Excellent" and bottom feeders? I don't think so.
 
#39
#39
(OrangeSquare @ Jul 2 said:
Why stop at 7? Lets do the full 8 years that Stoops has been at Oklahoma.

Stoops has gone 75-16, Fulmer has gone 74-26. Wasn't it also you saying earlier that it's easier to "pad" your numbers if you have less attempts? Looks like Oklahoma has attempted several games less than Tennesse over the eight yr span, so I guess this isn't really a fair comparison is it?

While we are at it though, do you really want to compare the SEC East with the Big12 South? Come on now. They won one more game, against FAR weaker opponents, and suddenly they are "Excellent" and Tennessee needs a new coach?

Give us all a break.
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Now that I've set you straight on how long Stoops has been at OU, here's some more for Fulmerites to chew on. The season before Stoops came to OU, they finished with a losing season for the fourth consecutive season. Tennesee won the National championship. From those beginning points, Stoops has won 75 games, 3 conference titles, and a National Championship. Fulmer has won 61 games, 0 conference championships, and of course, 0 National Championships. That says it all.
 
#40
#40
:D
(hatvol96 @ Jul 2 said:
Now that I've set you straight on how long Stoops has been at OU, here's some more for Fulmerites to chew on. The season before Stoops came to OU, they finished with a losing season for the fourth consecutive season. Tennesee won the National championship. From those beginning points, Stoops has won 75 games, 4 conference titles, and a National Championship. Fulmer has won 61 games, 0 conference championships, and of course, 0 National Championships. That says it all.
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Yeah, but Tennessee didn't get to play in the 04 National Championship after losing to Auburn in the SEC Championship game........ :whistling:
 
#41
#41
(hatvol96 @ Jul 2 said:
Now that I've set you straight on how long Stoops has been at OU, here's some more for Fulmerites to chew on. The season before Stoops came to OU, they finished with a losing season for the fourth consecutive season. Tennesee won the National championship. From those beginning points, Stoops has won 75 games, 4 conference titles, and a National Championship. Fulmer has won 61 games, 0 conference championships, and of course, 0 National Championships. That says it all.
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It sure does.


BIG TWELVE SUCKS :yuck:
 
#42
#42
(OrangeSquare @ Jul 2 said:
It sure does.
BIG TWELVE SUCKS :yuck:
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That's it. You start out by looking silly by being unable to ascertain how long Stoops has been at OU, then it's made readily apparent that TCHFCAUTK's accomplishments are dwarfed by those of the OU coach, so you resort to conference jingoism. Beautiful. Yeah, Stoops is lucky he didn't have to play that Vanderbilt juggernaut that beat UT last year.
 
#43
#43
(hatvol96 @ Jul 2 said:
That's it. You start out by looking silly by being unable to ascertain how long Stoops has been at OU, then it's made readily apparent that TCHFCAUTK's accomplishments are dwarfed by those of the OU coach, so you resort to conference jingoism. Beautiful. Yeah, Stoops is lucky he didn't have to play that Vanderbilt juggernaut that beat UT last year.
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It is much harder for long term dominance and championships in the best conference in the land. Conference "jingoism" or not.
 
#44
#44
(vol_freak @ Jul 3 said:
It is much harder for long term dominance and championships in the best conference in the land. Conference "jingoism" or not.
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I'll grant the SEC is the best conference top to bottom. However, winning the Big 12 3 times in 7 years is much more impressive than winning the SEC twice in 13.
 
#45
#45
(hatvol96 @ Jul 3 said:
I'll grant the SEC is the best conference top to bottom. However, winning the Big 12 4 times in 7 years is much more impressive than winning the SEC twice in 13.
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It is very impressive and I am not arguing with OU's recent success, but the Vols would have won many more than 2-13 in the Big 12.

I agree that Fulmer should have at least a couple more championships in his tenure but it's unfair to compare us to these teams in weaker conferences.

Also, that little downfall for OU that you mentioned was 10 years. Just to clarify.
 
#46
#46
(vol_freak @ Jul 3 said:
It is very impressive and I am not arguing with OU's recent success, but the Vols would have won many more than 2-13 in the Big 12.

I agree that Fulmer should have at least a couple more championships in his tenure but it's unfair to compare us to these teams in weaker conferences.

Also, that little downfall for OU that you mentioned was 11 years. Just to clarify.
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Many more? Do you remember the beatings Nebraska, the Big 12 standard bearer during the Manning years, gave UT? You certainly don't think UT has been better than OU and Texas since '99. They might have won one other, depending on which division of the Big 12 they played in.
 
#47
#47
(vol_freak @ Jul 3 said:
It is very impressive and I am not arguing with OU's recent success, but the Vols would have won many more than 2-13 in the Big 12.

I agree that Fulmer should have at least a couple more championships in his tenure but it's unfair to compare us to these teams in weaker conferences.

Also, that little downfall for OU that you mentioned was 10 years. Just to clarify.
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10 years-3 coaches. They didn't wallow around waiting for someone to get better. They made changes until they found the right guy. They didn't sit around eating popcorn and watching the band while the program burned down.
 
#48
#48
Nah, I think more than that in 13 years. And I think we would have beaten Texas and won the Big 12 in 2001. As for Nebraska, we would have been more prepared for them had that been our only big game of the season. Not sure we could have beat that 95 team though even if they spotted us three touchdowns.
 
#49
#49
(hatvol96 @ Jul 3 said:
They didn't sit around eating popcorn and watching the band while the program burned down.
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They sure as heck tried to burn it. OU flat out sucked for most of the 90s.
 
#50
#50
(GAVol @ Jul 3 said:
They sure as heck tried to burn it. OU flat out sucked for most of the 90s.
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"Sucked" is being kind to the John Blake teams.
 
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