Guatemala to Legalize Drugs?

#153
#153
nbakerld said:
FYP.

Actually, from a crime perspective, there is a lot more evidence/support for legalization than prohibition. There is no support for the idea that prohibition leads to less crime, and it's counter-intuitive considering prohibition is inventing new crimes for people to commit.
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I don't quarrel that prohibition leads to crime. I readily concede that. My position is that fighting the crime is worth the result of less addicts. I will take less addicts over less crime, because addicts still commit crime.

And pointing to the prohibition of alcohol is misleading, because alcohol is so much more ingrained into the American (dare I say world) society moreso than the "hard" drugs. Social attitudes are much different and would make the results of their prohihition much different.
 
#154
#154
Would you be agreeable to legalizing some drugs? Marijuana, cocaine, etc?

Also, I don't use and wouldn't if it was legal, but the fact that marijuana is outlawed is horrible. I think that because it is illegal actually drives people to harder drugs that are easier to obtain.
 
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#155
#155
Grass? Absolutely. Cocain? Eh, probably not. I would put the line between those two. Allowing folks to GYO would take care of your second point.
 
#156
#156
Its about time we as a nation realize the war on drugs is an utter failure. Our prisons are full of non violent drug offenders. What does it say about us that the last "free" nation on earth has more people in prison than any other country.

Its past time to legalize, you criminalize the actions, not the product itself.
 
#157
#157
DEFENDTHISHOUSE said:
Its past time to legalize, you criminalize the actions, not the product itself.
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Exactly, we have laws on the books that will take care of criminal actions while under the influence. I'd rather see an addict who is not committing crimes treated than thrown in jail.
 
#158
#158
MystifyingVol said:
Exactly, we have laws on the books that will take care of criminal actions while under the influence. I'd rather see an addict who is not committing crimes treated than thrown in jail.
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They are treated through drug courts and furloughs. Treatment doesnt work for most.
 
#159
#159
distrovol said:
I don't quarrel that prohibition leads to crime. I readily concede that. My position is that fighting the crime is worth the result of less addicts. I will take less addicts over less crime, because addicts still commit crime.

And pointing to the prohibition of alcohol is misleading, because alcohol is so much more ingrained into the American (dare I say world) society moreso than the "hard" drugs. Social attitudes are much different and would make the results of their prohihition much different.
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?

distrovol said:
Abosolutely not. Between the two bad choices I simply hold my nose and pick prohibition. I firmly believe the devil we know is better than the devil we don't know. And, the best example to point to (of legalization) is prescriction meds and that has failed as well. We have more addicts. To say legalization will equal less addicts and crime is conjecture.
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#161
#161
nbakerld said:
?
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Just saw this. I suppose that you think that's a contradiction? The concession is that making anything illegal will lead to crime, but legalizing won't result in LESS crime (or addicts).It will still be there. Addicts very often commit crime because their judgement is faulty or need money to buy more drugs.
 
#162
#162
Has anyone ever heard of crime waves associated with opium use, cocaine use, or pot use back when they were totally legal?

See, we have this neat thing called history that we can reference to see if our theories have been tried and what the results were. They don't always translate directly into the present, but they do allow us to make more informed decisions.

How many people would risk jail to get pot money if they could raise their own for free? or buy it at the farmers market?

Coke is easier to make than chocolate. The trees grow in the same climates. Back when cocaine was legal, it was cheaper per pound than chocolate. Do many people need to commit crimes to get their hershey's money?

Of course legalizing will result in less crime. Consider: coke is illegal. using coke is a crime. stealing money to buy coke is a crime. that is two crimes. if everything stayed the same except that coke was legal, then the only crime would be stealing money. one crime. (now, I don't think people would steal to support their coke habit if it was cheap and legal, but for the sake of argument)

More people drink beer than drink pga. Why? One big reason is because alcohol is legal. Research has shown to a high degree of certainty that hard drug use is usually the result of searching for more bang for the buck or more conceal-ability for the same or greater high.

Does anyone on here personally know anyone from high school who avoided pot because it was illegal? I don't. I know people who never used, like me, but it was for different reasons (my dad would have beat the crap outta me!).

Either way, what we are doing is total lossage. It is time to try something new (or old, depending on your point of view).
 
#163
#163
I draw the line with coke. We have all heard about coke addicts that have drained the bank account and wrecked their family. Even if it was cheap and legal, the majority of addicts would put the addiction before anything else (like a job) which inexorably would lead to some other way of getting money to sustain the habit (crime).

And, my father was one of those "not cool because it's illegal" folks. We didn't see eye to eye on that, though.
 
#165
#165
Rasputin_Vol said:
Meanwhile, in Colombia...


At Americas summit, Obama says no to legalizing drugs - latimes.com

Also said no to legalizing prostitution...
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And a puzzling comment.. an Obama supporter (I assume) that happens to be a Christian Fundamentalist (I assume) that supports drug prohibition.

Mark Loughner at 10:38 PM April 14, 2012
People who want drugs legalized are wasting their time. The Christian Fundamentalists will never go for it, because they've always been angry at ANYTHING that--to them--smacks of "running away from your problems rather than facing them." Hogwash. Addicts use to thumb their nose at ANYONE who's part of the Establishment, and they won't listen to the Religious Right because they associate "Christian" with Adolf Hitler. What they fail to realize is that such attitudes play into the hands of terrorists--and others--who want to destroy America for any number of perceived wrongs. Obama is absolutely right to oppose legalization for that very reason; those who don't want the drug culture to flourish are people too, and have just as much right to their values as anyone else. Addicts should not be rewarded for their hatred of those who oppose their habits; bigotry is bigotry--whether based on race, religion, class or economic status. The president believes that a society with enough strong economics to offset the temptation (and profit motive) of drugs, plus leaders with enough backbone to stand up to criminals and cartels and refuse to be cowed, AND a strong belief in, and respect for, the rule of law will overcome the drug cartels and their criminal kingpins and will better serve society than just throwing up our hands and giving up. It had better. What other choice do we have?
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#170
#170
BearCat204 said:
Money well spent, but I'm afraid of it tearing my family apart :)
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This is your brain on drugs

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