Halladay is unreal.

#27
#27
GahLee said:
Matt Cain?

Do you think that Tim will become injury prone or something?

Or that teams will finally figure him out and he won't be able to adjust.

No way Roy would make the HOF right now, he only has 151 career wins.
Click to expand...

What do wins have to do with dominance? Roy has been a top 5 pitcher for 5+ years, no question...

Going by career wins, Blylevyn is in before Koufax, and Don Baylor should be in before Ted Williams.
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#28
#28
GahLee said:
Matt Cain?

Do you think that Tim will become injury prone or something?

Or that teams will finally figure him out and he won't be able to adjust.

No way Roy would make the HOF right now, he only has 151 career wins.
Click to expand...

Tim has one hell of a delivery that hitters can have trouble in figuring him out
 
#29
#29
JTrainDavis said:
What do wins have to do with dominance? Roy has been a top 5 pitcher for 5+ years, no question...

Going by career wins, Blylevyn is in before Koufax, and Don Baylor should be in before Ted Williams.
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Click to expand...

I don't get a vote man, I agree that he is a HOF talent but there is no way that Roy would even sniff the HOF with his career totals, baseball more than nay other sport is stat driven and there are certain numbers you have to achieve in order to even be considered.

You take back your statement about Ted Williams, greatest hitter ever.
 
#30
#30
Halladay, and it's not even close.

He has honed his craft against the best two lineups money can buy for the past like 8 years. The NL is child's play for him.
 
#31
#31
GahLee said:
He will have a boost in all of his stats...lower ERA, more K's, lower opponents BA....I would be surprised if his ERA is above 2.00 this year.
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Then the NL CY Young has been determined. Now it will be the battle for runner-up.

Just hope he does not get hurt or the Phillies rotation is screwed.
 
#33
#33
damn....now i know what it is like for a MLB pitcher to drop down and dominate AAA. the bane of timmy will be the same that pedro had. he is too little.
 
#34
#34
bam15 said:
I wouldn't say the best, but most definitely the most consistent upper echelon pitcher.

Lincecum is without a doubt the best.
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Halladay is in a different league.

There's also a very strong belief among many scouts that Lincecum will not be able to sustain a lenghty career.

I kind of agree with that myself.
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#37
#37
GahLee said:
I don't get a vote man, I agree that he is a HOF talent but there is no way that Roy would even sniff the HOF with his career totals, baseball more than nay other sport is stat driven and there are certain numbers you have to achieve in order to even be considered.

You take back your statement about Ted Williams, greatest hitter ever.
Click to expand...

So Dizzy Dean, Lefty Gomez, Sandy Koufax, and others should have their plaques removed because they didn't linger and compile stats by recording several above average seasons to meet miilestones that have lost any real meaning with the extended length of today's careers.

Halladay has sustained dominance for long enough to be a sure fire HoF'er
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#38
#38
JTrainDavis said:
So Dizzy Dean, Lefty Gomez, Sandy Koufax, and others should have their plaques removed because they didn't linger and compile stats by recording several above average seasons to meet miilestones that have lost any real meaning with the extended length of today's careers.

Halladay has sustained dominance for long enough to be a sure fire HoF'er
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Click to expand...

He wouldn't get voted in if he retired right now, not saying it's right, just the truth.
 
#39
#39
JTrainDavis said:
So Dizzy Dean, Lefty Gomez, Sandy Koufax, and others should have their plaques removed because they didn't linger and compile stats by recording several above average seasons to meet miilestones that have lost any real meaning with the extended length of today's careers.

Halladay has sustained dominance for long enough to be a sure fire HoF'er
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Click to expand...

i am one of the few that doesn't think sandy belongs in the hall. he had 4-5 good years and walked away cause he was hurt. would have let Pedro in the hall if he stopped pitching his first year in bos? there have been plenty of players that have started great and injury/death/some event caused them to end their career early. sorry...but that that short end of the stick, you shouldn't get in the hall for that.
 
#40
#40
dogsipod said:
i am one of the few that doesn't think sandy belongs in the hall. he had 4-5 good years and walked away cause he was hurt. would have let Pedro in the hall if he stopped pitching his first year in bos?
Click to expand...

Sanford not in the HOF. When he left, he had the most Cy Youngs ever, the most no-hitters, single season strikeout record, single game strikeout record and some WS rings. For that stretch of six seasons, he was the greatest pitcher in the game. Nobody has ever had a similar six seasons. Remember, homeboy was 37 and 37 when he started being the man. Thereafter, unhittable. Longevity is a crap measure for the hall. Guys like Sutton have no business there.
 
#41
#41
longevity has to play a factor. otherwise nothing stops ppl that had A good year from being hall worthy. regardless it's a hall of fame. it is completely subjective. any hall of fame is. baseball is probably the most alluring and despising at the same time. it started very inner circle with great players really forcing the picks, then they started giving out favors, owners used it for friends and to help influence players...the different eras... The hall lives and changes with the game. that's was makes it so interesting.
 
#42
#42
dogsipod said:
longevity has to play a factor. otherwise nothing stops ppl that had A good year from being hall worthy. regardless it's a hall of fame. it is completely subjective. any hall of fame is. baseball is probably the most alluring and despising at the same time. it started very inner circle with great players really forcing the picks, then they started giving out favors, owners used it for friends and to help influence players...the different eras... The hall lives and changes with the game. that's was makes it so interesting.
Click to expand...

but it wasn't "a good year." It was the best 6 years ever turned in by a pitcher. It will remain so.
 
#43
#43
BigPapaVol said:
but it wasn't "a good year." It was the best 6 years ever turned in by a pitcher. It will remain so.
Click to expand...

pedro's 7 year run from 97-03 was as good if not better then sandy from 61-66. pedro had a better winning percentage, era, whip, h/9, b/9, so/9, so/bb. sandy did have more innings pitched and he avg 30 more so per year. sandy did quite before they lowered the mound and played in a much more pitcher friendly ballpark then pedro. point is that you can find time periods like that for a lot of pitchers that aren't in the hall. had they stopped during their prime would they get an automatic bid? for the record i wouldn't put pedro in my hall either...though he would be close. i would like to see what some of the pitchers of this era could do back then. with the bigger ball parks, higher mound, dead ball. someone like halladay(to stay on topic :) ) would be a beast size wise. and the Ruths and Mantles would be ungodly now i think.

i remember reading somewhere that someone was looking at old score cards that ppl had recorded extra data on when ruth played. he said that ruth had at least 19 fly outs during his 60hr season to center field that would be homers by 25-30 feet in today's avg ball park. 490 to straight away center is quite a poke. lol
 
#44
#44
You discount the watered down league Pedro was pitching in. Sandy faced better lineups and better hitters every time out.

Pedro's stretch was close as were Maddux's and Johnson's, but neither as good. None ate the same number of innings. Sandy, with 7 inning outings against a watered down league might have set records we can't even understand.
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#45
#45
BigPapaVol said:
You discount the watered down league Pedro was pitching in. Sandy faced better lineups and better hitters every time out.

Pedro's stretch was close as were Maddux's and Johnson's, but neither as good. None ate the same number of innings. Sandy, with 7 inning outings against a watered down league might have set records we can't even understand.
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Click to expand...

You are completely discounting the steroid era and what effect that had on pitchers...looking at what Sandy did vs what Pedro did, I find what Pedro/Greg did more astounding.
 
#46
#46
GahLee said:
You are completely discounting the steroid era and what effect that had on pitchers...looking at what Sandy did vs what Pedro did, I find what Pedro/Greg did more astounding.
Click to expand...

Really? Look at the dilution and the absurd inning counts. Don't discount the luxury tgat the guys in the 90s had in getting yanked on days they didn't have it. That probably has the single largest ERA impact in the entire comparison.
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#47
#47
ip is kinda a lame duck stat. it has been decreasing at almost a constant rate since before the 1900s. what do you think pud galvin would do if he didn't avg 32 complete games a year or go the first 6 years of his career making 70+ starts and through 600+ innings. is the league "watered" down...to some extent, but you cannot make that claim with out acknowledging that koufax benefited from the pitchers era, much larger strike zone, higher mound, no slope, less physical balls used per game, bigger parks, always got to pitch to a pitcher....

batters didn't see the numbers the see now. in 64 there were 10 guys that hit 300 or better, 5 guys that hit 30 homers or more, 5 guys with 200 hits or more...

there is no way to really compare or make any judgement, everything is just opinion. all you can really say is koufax was a great pitcher in a pitcher Era and perdro/johnson/maddox/(whoever) was a great pitcher in a hitters Era. they put up similar numbers over a similar time span and that's about all anyone can really saw about it. i gotta head out for a bit. fun to talk baseball with someone though :rock:
 
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#49
#49
Anyone see Halladay tell Manuel hell no during a mound visit in the 7th yesterday? Old Charlie waddled back to the dugout and Doc got Holliday out one pitch later.
 
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