Has the talent dropped this much?????

[VolunteerHillbilly]

And as we've shown over the past 6 years, you can get your butt kicked with superior talent.

I hear this all the time but I would really like someone to tell me which teams in the BCS era have won the NC with a bunch of Joe Schmos? CPF is not known for player development. His system has always been to recruit great players and let the athletes win games by "out physicalling" the opponents.

 

[Lexvol]

I hear this all the time but I would really like someone to tell me which teams in the BCS era have won the NC with a bunch of Joe Schmos? CPF is not known for player development. His system has always been to recruit great players and let the athletes win games by "out physicalling" the opponents.

Good point HB. Either we are undercoached, or less talented, or both. There is a deficiency somewhere.

 

[VolunteerHillbilly]

However, lightning won't strike twice, meaning the Vols won't finish with 6 losses this season. Their record won't be any worse than 8-4 and they have the potential to win them all. I don't see a sure loss on the schedule.

Try and consider that maybe the lightening struck in 2004 because UT got some lucky bounces and what happened last year is a more accurate representation of where the team is right now. Scary huh?

 

[Tnwoodsman]

A widely recognized "talent" meter is also special teams, which generally consists of speedy second string players. One could make a case that marginal talent, along with attention to detail has been the main problem recently with UT's special teams play.

I agree........ talent is important but we have had talent for most of the last 10 years. I think Coach Fulmer became too lax and complacent. He has almost said so himself. Cutcliffe is a saviour... not necessarily in what he does in coaching (His reputation as a QB coach is overrated. The QB's he coached at Tn were so talented I could have coached them) but what he has done in making Fulmer realize that it is time for discipline and paying attention to details. Someone posted the "star" level of this year's Auburn team and it probably didn't average a 3 and they are predicted as conference champions. I am not at all concerned with our talent level, nor am I concerned about the team now that I sincerely believe Coach Fulmer has received a wake up call.

 

[allvol]

Why is it so hard for people to admit that the talent level has been marginalized at the very least? When you don't win the SEC for 7 years coming off of a NC, that speaks volumes about the talent you have.

I think it speaks volumes as to how tough the SEC is. In the 7 seasons since 1998, 5 different schools have won the SEC Championship. Tennessee has won or tied for the SEC East lead 3 times ('01,'03,'04), going to the SEC Championship game twice. The representatives from the EAST since 1998 are: Georgia ('02,'03,'05), Tennessee ('01,'04), and Florida ('99,'00).

If you go back 10 full seasons, Tennessee leads the SEC East with 4 Championship game appearances ('97,'98,'01,'04), followed by Florida ('96,'99,'00) and Georgia ('02,'03,'05). Over the past 10 seasons, the Vols have the best record of any other SEC school. I know this includes '96-'98, but you have to take the good along with the bad.

 

[allvol]

Try and consider that maybe the lightening struck in 2004 because UT got some lucky bounces and what happened last year is a more accurate representation of where the team is right now. Scary huh?

Every loss last season.... EVERY loss last season, including to the top 10 teams.... the Vols were in each game in the 4th quarter.... they had the opportunity to win EVERY game. Not your typical 5-6 team. Probably one of the best 5-6 teams in the history of college football. They WON'T lose 6 games this season.

A few unlucky bounces in 2004 may have ended up with the Vols at 8-4, but definately not a losing season. (Assume 2 more regular season losses + no loss to Auburn in the SECCG)

I've never seen a team as highly ranked and talented as Tennessee was last season lose so many close ballgames. At least the 5-6 team in 1988 was getting blown out by other teams.

Another comparison would be the 1980 Tennessee football team. Coming off of Johnny Majors first winning season at UT (7-5) and a bowl appearance, and with the No. 1 recruiting class in the nation now in their 4th season at UT.... the Vols finished the '80 season with a 5-6 record.

The '80 season included losses to eventual national champion Georgia (15-16), at #5 Southern Cal (17-20), #1 at the time Alabama (0-27), and a 12th ranked Pittsburgh team (6-30). Coming off of 2 straight losses and a 3-4 record, the Vols then lost to Virginia (13-16) and Ole Miss (9-20) before beating Vandy (51-13) and Kentucky (45-14) to round out the season. The other victories during the season included Wash State (35-23) and Ga Tech (23-10). But very similar to the Vols winning against top ten LSU in 2005, the '80 vols defeated #18 Auburn (at Auburn) by a score of 42-0.

Although the '80 team finished 5-6 and the '81 team finished 8-4..... the '81 team was destroyed by Georgia (0-44) and Southern Cal (7-43). Record-wise, the '81 team is considered better.... however, the '80 team played better against better competition.

 

[VolunteerHillbilly]

I've never seen a team as highly ranked and talented as Tennessee was last season lose so many close ballgames. At least the 5-6 team in 1988 was getting blown out by other teams.

Which is who's fault?

 

[GAVol]

Which is who's fault?

I don't think he was looking to deflect the blame. He's just making the point that it's really rare to see a team go 5-6 without getting killed a couple of times.

 

[OrangeSquare]

Every loss last season.... EVERY loss last season, including to the top 10 teams.... the Vols were in each game in the 4th quarter.... they had the opportunity to win EVERY game. Not your typical 5-6 team. Probably one of the best 5-6 teams in the history of college football. They WON'T lose 6 games this season.

A few unlucky bounces in 2004 may have ended up with the Vols at 8-4, but definately not a losing season. (Assume 2 more regular season losses + no loss to Auburn in the SECCG)

I've never seen a team as highly ranked and talented as Tennessee was last season lose so many close ballgames. At least the 5-6 team in 1988 was getting blown out by other teams.

Another comparison would be the 1980 Tennessee football team. Coming off of Johnny Majors first winning season at UT (7-5) and a bowl appearance, and with the No. 1 recruiting class in the nation now in their 4th season at UT.... the Vols finished the '80 season with a 5-6 record.

The '80 season included losses to eventual national champion Georgia (15-16), at #5 Southern Cal (17-20), #1 at the time Alabama (0-27), and a 12th ranked Pittsburgh team (6-30). Coming off of 2 straight losses and a 3-4 record, the Vols then lost to Virginia (13-16) and Ole Miss (9-20) before beating Vandy (51-13) and Kentucky (45-14) to round out the season. The other victories during the season included Wash State (35-23) and Ga Tech (23-10). But very similar to the Vols winning against top ten LSU in 2005, the '80 vols defeated #18 Auburn (at Auburn) by a score of 42-0.

Although the '80 team finished 5-6 and the '81 team finished 8-4..... the '81 team was destroyed by Georgia (0-44) and Southern Cal (7-43). Record-wise, the '81 team is considered better.... however, the '80 team played better against better competition.

GREAT post. I love how Hillbilly NEVER responds when someone makes a post like this to him. Awesome job.

 

[hatvol96]

Every loss last season.... EVERY loss last season, including to the top 10 teams.... the Vols were in each game in the 4th quarter.... they had the opportunity to win EVERY game. Not your typical 5-6 team. Probably one of the best 5-6 teams in the history of college football. They WON'T lose 6 games this season.

A few unlucky bounces in 2004 may have ended up with the Vols at 8-4, but definately not a losing season. (Assume 2 more regular season losses + no loss to Auburn in the SECCG)

I've never seen a team as highly ranked and talented as Tennessee was last season lose so many close ballgames. At least the 5-6 team in 1988 was getting blown out by other teams.

Another comparison would be the 1980 Tennessee football team. Coming off of Johnny Majors first winning season at UT (7-5) and a bowl appearance, and with the No. 1 recruiting class in the nation now in their 4th season at UT.... the Vols finished the '80 season with a 5-6 record.

The '80 season included losses to eventual national champion Georgia (15-16), at #5 Southern Cal (17-20), #1 at the time Alabama (0-27), and a 12th ranked Pittsburgh team (6-30). Coming off of 2 straight losses and a 3-4 record, the Vols then lost to Virginia (13-16) and Ole Miss (9-20) before beating Vandy (51-13) and Kentucky (45-14) to round out the season. The other victories during the season included Wash State (35-23) and Ga Tech (23-10). But very similar to the Vols winning against top ten LSU in 2005, the '80 vols defeated #18 Auburn (at Auburn) by a score of 42-0.

Although the '80 team finished 5-6 and the '81 team finished 8-4..... the '81 team was destroyed by Georgia (0-44) and Southern Cal (7-43). Record-wise, the '81 team is considered better.... however, the '80 team played better against better competition.

Again, I will break out Bill Parcells-"You are what your record says you are." 5-6 is 5-6.

 

[OrangeSquare]

Again, I will break out Bill Parcells-"You are what your record says you are." 5-6 is 5-6.

Because he knows SOOOOO much about the College game. :boredom:

 

[GAVol]

Because he knows SOOOOO much about the College game. :boredom:

No, because he has hit on one of the incontivertible truths of life . . . Like it or not, results are usually the only thing that matter.

 

[OrangeSquare]

5-6 last season does not make the Vols the worst team in college football either, like our "friend" here thinks they are.

A reply like that to a post with so much thought wasn't made because it was true. It was made to attack Tennessee YET AGAIN and plant the seed of disgust.

 

[rockydoc]

Duckhook makes a valid point. Looking at the roster, does anyone see a gamebreaker on offense such as a Carl Pickens or a Jamal Lewis? (I like A. Foster and think he is a good back, possible All-SEC but not convienced he is a gamebreaker yet). Also does anybody see a dominator on defense such as a John Henderson or a Al Wilson?

We will be better than last year but will have to win the old fasioned way with better coaching and grinding out each game.

 

[Lexvol]

Every loss last season.... EVERY loss last season, including to the top 10 teams.... the Vols were in each game in the 4th quarter.... they had the opportunity to win EVERY game. Not your typical 5-6 team. Probably one of the best 5-6 teams in the history of college football. They WON'T lose 6 games this season.

A few unlucky bounces in 2004 may have ended up with the Vols at 8-4, but definately not a losing season. (Assume 2 more regular season losses + no loss to Auburn in the SECCG)

I've never seen a team as highly ranked and talented as Tennessee was last season lose so many close ballgames. At least the 5-6 team in 1988 was getting blown out by other teams.

Another comparison would be the 1980 Tennessee football team. Coming off of Johnny Majors first winning season at UT (7-5) and a bowl appearance, and with the No. 1 recruiting class in the nation now in their 4th season at UT.... the Vols finished the '80 season with a 5-6 record.

The '80 season included losses to eventual national champion Georgia (15-16), at #5 Southern Cal (17-20), #1 at the time Alabama (0-27), and a 12th ranked Pittsburgh team (6-30). Coming off of 2 straight losses and a 3-4 record, the Vols then lost to Virginia (13-16) and Ole Miss (9-20) before beating Vandy (51-13) and Kentucky (45-14) to round out the season. The other victories during the season included Wash State (35-23) and Ga Tech (23-10). But very similar to the Vols winning against top ten LSU in 2005, the '80 vols defeated #18 Auburn (at Auburn) by a score of 42-0.

Although the '80 team finished 5-6 and the '81 team finished 8-4..... the '81 team was destroyed by Georgia (0-44) and Southern Cal (7-43). Record-wise, the '81 team is considered better.... however, the '80 team played better against better competition.

Just the fact that so many games were close over the past two years= marginal talent. UT's talent has been neutralized in the SEC. For some it is an acceptable excuse that the SEC has gotten stronger. For me it doesn't fly. Coming off the NC complacency set in at UT. The coaches have admitted it, the players have talked about it, and the press is having a field day with it. The way I see it, other teams just didn't catch up with UT's talent level...they were ALLOWED to catch up.

 

[Jaytrain5]

Why is it so hard for people to admit that the talent level has been marginalized at the very least? When you don't win the SEC for 7 years coming off of a NC, that speaks volumes about the talent you have.

I'm one of the folks who believes the talent in Knoxville is outstanding. The results last year were pathetic, and I'm as frustrated as any of us with the lack of championships since 98. We're definitely not getting the kind of on-field production that our talent should allow.

In reference to your comment though, I don't know what "marginal" talent you're referring to. I think our last recruiting class was pretty week, but we're coming off a 5-6 record. And if not winning the SEC for 7 years "speaks volumes about the talent you have," then why is Florida widely considered one of the top 2 most talented teams in the conference?

 

[allvol]

Again, I will break out Bill Parcells-"You are what your record says you are." 5-6 is 5-6.

my point was to say that 10-3 and SEC-E winners in 2004 did not equal the same in 2005 but rather a strange 5-6 season..... neither season was related to the other. Likewise, the 5-6 in 2005 does not automatically mean that the Vols will finish 2006 with a losing record. In evaluating talent and play on the field in 2004 and 2005, a few minor things need to be ironed out to get back to winning the SEC East. I was not justifying 2005, but rather analyzing 2006.

 

[texas_vol]

how many fairweather fans does it take to ruin a thread?

tell me the last top 10 recruiting class VaTech had? and tell me that the team doesnt play with emotion and pride and they still win with less recruiting talent...tnpreach is right, we just need the staff to bring out the best in the kids we have. I think they are doing so right now.

ps. i love that we are getting a base from the in-state recruits, we have more already than we did last year.

GO VOLS!!

 

[hatvol96]

how many fairweather fans does it take to ruin a thread?

tell me the last top 10 recruiting class VaTech had? and tell me that the team doesnt play with emotion and pride and they still win with less recruiting talent...tnpreach is right, we just need the staff to bring out the best in the kids we have. I think they are doing so right now.

ps. i love that we are getting a base from the in-state recruits, we have more already than we did last year.

GO VOLS!!

If all we're aspiring to be is comparable to Virginia Tech, I hope we shut the program down completely.

 

[texas_vol]

I'm one of the folks who believes the talent in Knoxville is outstanding. The results last year were pathetic, and I'm as frustrated as any of us with the lack of championships since 98. We're definitely not getting the kind of on-field production that our talent should allow.

In reference to your comment though, I don't know what "marginal" talent you're referring to. I think our last recruiting class was pretty week, but we're coming off a 5-6 record. And if not winning the SEC for 7 years "speaks volumes about the talent you have," then why is Florida widely considered one of the top 2 most talented teams in the conference?

why? because florida has about 20 receivers that run sub 4.4s. because florida has a coach that the kids believe in and they want to play for him and the university, not just because it is a leaping pad to the NFL. because florida wears jean shorts.. all in all. it comes down to the HCIC. he has done what a good coach is supposed to do when times are tough. clean house and bring in fresh blood. well, its time to sh*t or get off the pot, Phil. I dont care if you are born under the state of TN and you pee bright orange.

you better watch out before your kids start to look at cutt as the HCIC.

 

[allvol]

Just the fact that so many games were close over the past two years= marginal talent. UT's talent has been neutralized in the SEC. For some it is an acceptable excuse that the SEC has gotten stronger. For me it doesn't fly. Coming off the NC complacency set in at UT. The coaches have admitted it, the players have talked about it, and the press is having a field day with it. The way I see it, other teams just didn't catch up with UT's talent level...they were ALLOWED to catch up.

I disagree. Close games against top 10 teams is not marginal. It takes a talented team to make as many mistakes as the Vols did last season and still have a shot to win EVERY game. National Championship seasons are very special. To expect one every season is ridiculous. You will always be disappointed if you compare every team to the 1998 squad. The previous NC was in 1951.

I think Fulmer has tried to address the "complacency" you discuss. However, I think he was talking about the coaching staff.... the talent has been there and is there.

Before the NC in '98, the benchmark for a "good" season was 9 wins. The seasons that UT had 10 and 11 victories were considered "great." However, after winnning the NC, the 9 wins in '99 were considered a disappointment, the 11 wins in '01 were considered a disappointment, the 10 wins in '03 and again in '04 did not satisfy some. It apparently will take perfection to satisfy some folks?

Comparing every SEC East team to the 1998 season..., Georgia was 9-3 in 1998 and the past 2 seasons have been 10-2 and 10-3. Florida was 10-2 in 1998 and the past 2 seasons have been 7-5 and 9-3. No place but up to go for South Carolina, they were 1-10 in 1998 and the past 2 seasons have been 6-5 and 7-5. Kentucky was 7-5 in 1998 but has finished 2-9 and 3-8 the past 2 seasons. Vanderbilt was 2-9 in 1998 and the past 2 seasons were 2-9 and 5-6. No team in the SEC East has finished with a perfect 8-0 record since Tennessee in 1998.

Florida is down a bit (last SEC Championship game appearance coming in 2000).... Georgia has replaced them as nemesis for the Vols this decade... the one game difference (from '90s to now) for Georgia is that after losing 9 straight to the Vols, they have started winning.... South Carolina and Kentucky have swapped places.... and Vandy has their one 5-6 season they shoot for in each decade.

The last 5 SEC-E winners have been either Tennessee or Georgia. Both were outright winners twice... with the Dawgs edging the Vols with a midseason tie-break rule change in 2003 (Florida was involved in the tie-break too.)

Prior to 1998, the last Tennessee squad to finish an SEC slate undefeated was the 1967 SEC Championship team.

One other interesting fact... the SEC East winner won 6 straight SEC Championship games from 1993-1998. Since then, the SEC West winner has won 4 of 7.

 

[texas_vol]

i think the point hatvol is that kids are kids and with the proper motivation and coaching, they can be better than expected.

vatech just comes to mind seeing how the fans love the coach and the fans love the play from their team. Im sure blacksburg is way louder than knoxville as of lates. sad.

 

[hatvol96]

I disagree. Close games against top 10 teams is not marginal. It takes a talented team to make as many mistakes as the Vols did last season and still have a shot to win EVERY game. National Championship seasons are very special. To expect one every season is ridiculous. You will always be disappointed if you compare every team to the 1998 squad. The previous NC was in 1951.

I think Fulmer has tried to address the "complacency" you discuss. However, I think he was talking about the coaching staff.... the talent has been there and is there.

Before the NC in '98, the benchmark for a "good" season was 9 wins. The seasons that UT had 10 and 11 victories were considered "great." However, after winnning the NC, the 9 wins in '99 were considered a disappointment, the 11 wins in '01 were considered a disappointment, the 10 wins in '03 and again in '04 did not satisfy some. It apparently will take perfection to satisfy some folks?

Comparing every SEC East team to the 1998 season..., Georgia was 9-3 in 1998 and the past 2 seasons have been 10-2 and 10-3. Florida was 10-2 in 1998 and the past 2 seasons have been 7-5 and 9-3. No place but up to go for South Carolina, they were 1-10 in 1998 and the past 2 seasons have been 6-5 and 7-5. Kentucky was 7-5 in 1998 but has finished 2-9 and 3-8 the past 2 seasons. Vanderbilt was 2-9 in 1998 and the past 2 seasons were 2-9 and 5-6. No team in the SEC East has finished with a perfect 8-0 record since Tennessee in 1998.

Florida is down a bit (last SEC Championship game appearance coming in 2000).... Georgia has replaced them as nemesis for the Vols this decade... the one game difference (from '90s to now) for Georgia is that after losing 9 straight to the Vols, they have started winning.... South Carolina and Kentucky have swapped places.... and Vandy has their one 5-6 season they shoot for in each decade.

The last 5 SEC-E winners have been either Tennessee or Georgia. Both were outright winners twice... with the Dawgs edging the Vols with a midseason tie-break rule change in 2003 (Florida was involved in the tie-break too.)

Prior to 1998, the last Tennessee squad to finish an SEC slate undefeated was the 1967 SEC Championship team.

One other interesting fact... the SEC East winner won 6 straight SEC Championship games from 1993-1998. Since then, the SEC West winner has won 4 of 7.

South Carolina and Vanderbilt were in the Top 10 last year?

 

[allvol]

South Carolina and Vanderbilt were in the Top 10 last year?

You and Lee Smith hanging out together? Focus on the games I was discussing instead of trying to put words in my mouth. You missed the entire focus of what I wrote only trying to incite or "flame." I'm starting to think they should change your title from "all american" to "flamer"

 

[hatvol96]

You and Lee Smith hanging out together? Focus on the games I was discussing instead of trying to put words in my mouth. You missed the entire focus of what I wrote only trying to incite or "flame." I'm starting to think they should change your title from "all american" to "flamer"

I haven't missed the focus at all. Your intent is to carry water for TCHFCATUTK. You attempt to minimalize the disaster that was last season by talking about how "close" we were to being successful. Any team that loses to Vanderbilt is suffering from a talent deficiency. Period.