Here comes the NCAA

#351
#351
HiltonHeadVol said:
A couple of points. I have heard opinions from what I believe to be legit journalists - not just random YouTubers - that UT will almost certainly NOT sue the NCAA over a bowl ban, and that this hearing over the past two days was about attempts by Pruitt and UT to soften proposed penalties. All parties have made their case already and presented their evidence. It would seem that almost no one in the know believes a bowl ban is really on the table. More likely it the additional of a significant number of scholarships reductions that is at stake. It is not outside the realm of possibility that Cbread could have dropped new accusations this week that Fulmer/admin knew about the dirt and did nothing, but some have said this kind of 11th hour strategy by Pruitt would be viewed dimly by potential destination universities for him. It has been said that the one thing UT will not want is to suddenly put the parties involved on a true witness stand where an oath is sworn and risk very bad items coming to light (even if there isnt knowledge of dirt by UT at this point). The NCAA has no ability to demand oaths to sworn UNLESS one moves to a true court of law. Hopefully we will hear a final verdict from NCAA in less than 3 months which I understand is a normal timeframe at this stage. THEN, the Vols can appeal I believe. However, UT wants this out of the news and out of the recruiting conversation ASAP.
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This is probably the best speculative argument or review to date of the overall situation. The bowl band, eh? Not sure if that will happen or not. Hardly enough teams to fill all the bowls at present. When was the last bowl banned team? It is hard to judge what the NCAA is going to do, but geez still tired of being the example where many others have skated. It is a matter of principle at this point at least for me.
 
#352
#352
I was under the impression that LSU hasn’t been given their sanctions yet on the basketball and football program.
 
#354
#354
Voldog1998 said:
I think we are looking at a bowl ban this season and loss of scholarships and that’s it
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Nothing the NCAA does should shock anyone, but I see little chance of a bowl ban. UT has become a cash cow again, and the NCAA has a history of going soft on that kind of school (cough ... UNC ... cough). A loss of a few scholarships to make them not appear toothless is a definite possibility.
 
#355
#355
I don't think the NCAA will do anything crazy Mayberry force us to forfiet the three wins in 2020 and that's it. Anything like a bowl ban and loss of scholarships and the Vols will take the ncaa to court.
 
#357
#357
Volmac2022 said:
I don't think the NCAA will do anything crazy Mayberry force us to forfiet the three wins in 2020 and that's it. Anything like a bowl ban and loss of scholarships and the Vols will take the ncaa to court.
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The thing about going to court allows the NCAA discovery access to about everything in the AD. Not sure that is a good game plan.
 
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#358
#358
Volmac2022 said:
...forfiet the three wins in 2020 and that's it....
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I wish it were only the 3 Ws from 2020 that are at stake.

Unfortunately, more like 11.

Pruitt's illegal payment plan is known to have begun in September 2018. That means some among the freshman class who arrived in Knoxville between December 2018 and June 2019 were "contaminated" with dirty money. And a certain number of the freshmen, Henry To'o To'o as a notable example, played immediately.*

So all 8 wins from 2019 are potentially at risk. As well as the 3 from 2020.

Some folks here don't care about historical win records, all-time lists, that sort of thing. But some of us do. If all 11 victories are erased from the record books, we will fall behind Georgia and USCw in a way that will take many years, perhaps decades, to overcome. And we will drop from the Top 10 programs all-time.

For those who don't care about such things, it's a big shrug. For those of us who do, this would hurt significantly worse than any lost scholarships or monetary fines.


* we don't know which players were found by the investigation to be tainted; neither the university nor the NCAA have named, nor are likely to ever name student athletes, guilty or innocent. Not saying To'o To'o was one of them. It just seems likely, given the way circumstances played out.
 
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#359
#359
VFL-82-JP said:
I wish it were only the 3 Ws from 2020 that are at stake.

Unfortunately, more like 11.

Pruitt's player payment plan is proven to have begun in September 2018. That means some of the freshmen who arrived in Knoxville over the next five to nine months were "contaminated" with dirty money. Several of those true freshmen, fellas like Henry To'o To'o, played immediately.

Thing is, we don't know which players the NCAA and our own investigation confirmed as tainted.

So all 8 wins from 2019 are in question. As well as the 3 from 2020.

Some folks here don't care about historical win records, all-time lists, that sort of thing. But some of us do. If all 11 victories are erased from the record books, we will fall behind Georgia and USCw in a way that will take many years, perhaps decades, to overcome. We will drop from the Top 10 programs all-time.

For those who don't care about such things, it's a big shrug. For those of us who do, this would hurt significantly worse than any lost scholarships or monetary fines.
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I'm concerned with the future, not the past. If forfeiting 11 past wins is the only thing they want, I'll feel lucky! I would rather not affect the future VOLS performances and recruiting!;)
 
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#360
#360
overseasorange2 said:
I'm concerned with the future, not the past. If forfeiting 11 past wins is the only thing they want, I'll feel lucky! I would rather not affect the future VOLS performances and recruiting!;)
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Yeah, I get that some people feel this way.

I don't understand it. But I get that it exists.

I'm proud to brag on our program when sitting around with a bunch of fans of other schools. I like being able to point out that our team is more successful than theirs, better than theirs, as proven by having won more than them. I enjoy the position of strength a notable past provides when talking about the future.

But yeah, you do you, brother. Some of us do care. Leave us to it.
 
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#361
#361
VFL-82-JP said:
Yeah, I get that some people feel this way.

I don't understand it. But I get that it exists.

For me, the future is 50% of who we are. The past is the other 50%. They both exist and have roughly equal importance. Some might say the future is more important because it is open to our influence, it represents decisions not yet made, paths not yet chosen. Okay. Others will say, though, that the past is more significant because it is unchangeable, fixed, certain. What happened there, we live with for all time, while the future is yet undecided.

Me, I think of them as equally important and valuable, just in different ways. I'm proud to brag on our program when sitting around with a bunch of fans of other schools. I like being able to point out that our team is more successful than theirs, better than theirs, as proven by having won more than them. I enjoy the position of strength a notable past provides when talking about the future.

But yeah, you do you, brother. Some of us do care. Leave us to it.
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The ONLY time I would care is if it erased a NC or SECC. ;)
 
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#363
#363
onevol74 said:
The thing about going to court allows the NCAA discovery access to about everything in the AD. Not sure that is a good game plan.
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Good point and I'm sure TN's lawyers are aware of that and would not advise it. Should there be any other dirt within the TN athletic program it all could come out and create a very big mess for TN. Not saying there is dirt its just something that needs to be left alone.
 
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#366
#366
VFL-82-JP said:
I wish it were only the 3 Ws from 2020 that are at stake.

Unfortunately, more like 11.

Pruitt's illegal payment plan is known to have begun in September 2018. That means some among the freshman class who arrived in Knoxville between December 2018 and June 2019 were "contaminated" with dirty money. And a certain number of the freshmen, Henry To'o To'o as a notable example, played immediately.*

So all 8 wins from 2019 are potentially at risk. As well as the 3 from 2020.

Some folks here don't care about historical win records, all-time lists, that sort of thing. But some of us do. If all 11 victories are erased from the record books, we will fall behind Georgia and USCw in a way that will take many years, perhaps decades, to overcome. And we will drop from the Top 10 programs all-time.

For those who don't care about such things, it's a big shrug. For those of us who do, this would hurt significantly worse than any lost scholarships or monetary fines.


* we don't know which players were found by the investigation to be tainted; neither the university nor the NCAA have named, nor are likely to ever name student athletes, guilty or innocent. Not saying To'o To'o was one of them. It just seems likely, given the way circumstances played out.
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I'd rather forfeit wins over scholarship reductions. I'd also rather just pay a fine and be done with it. So until mid June we won't know what is going to happen.
 
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