Here's Part Of The Problem

[orangeluvr]

It's pretty simple you play like you practice.........

 

[DR2]

Interesting, that's not a thing heard in my neck of the woods. I heard more about the other schools, I think BC in particular, and some turf wars, but ESPN's involvement wasn't something I'd read about in any detail. Not that I wouldn't doubt it, I think the more money they provide schools, the more they might be inclined to "shape" the product they sell. But hey, if y'all hate 'em too much, you can just ship them our way (Just don't tell anyone here -- no real Tennessean will ever fully forgive ESPN for the Charles Woodson thing or that elevator commercial, so I have to keep this on the DL).

And, you know, I've often wondered if the WHOF has any draw or influence. I know it exists and I've seen it, but I've no idea if it plays any real role in recruiting or if it has an impact on decisions of that nature.

Hey UConn has the overall basketball HOF nearby up in Springfield MA, and it helps. Not entirely blaming ESPN about its action concerning UConn and the Big East because it had a lot of money tied up in the ACC and it was seriously concerned that the conference was in trouble and it wanted it shored up, and providing the financial incentive for the exit of decent football teams (and a joke BC team) to the ACC made sense. ESPN likely figured that UConn would also be invited in at some point to help bolster the ACC BB even further, but BC made sure that would never happen. So yeah, that's why many Husky fans hate ESPN even through unsurprisingly the Vol fans think that ESPN would have a special love for a nearby team. But except for the WCBB team, that's definitely not true.

And even with the WCBB team, there has been a lot of anger at ESPN for pushing the stories about all the old 2006 filing stuff between Pat and Geno while trying to put together a game between the two teams that few people want. No doubt that a lot of viewers would tune into a January game between the Vols and Huskies, but with all the ugliness it would stir up, it's not a winner for either team. Once one of the best series in sports, now the idea of any renewal should just be buried for the good of everybody. Tennessee is better off recruiting off a Vols vs. Gamecocks-Wildcats-Bulldogs-Aggies scenario than dragging the Huskies back into the picture.

 

[cwbytruckers]

How many UConn players work for ESPN? That connection is getting old (sorry to barge in on this post). Cause ESPN is down the street from UConn all the games are televised? UConn was loyal to CPTV a very local PBS channel and is now currently associated with SNY which 2.5 hrs away from Storrs. I don't get the ESPN thing but the rest of the thread starting with the OP is dead-on.

I agree. Most Tennessee fans look for any reason to JUSTIFY UCONN's success and Tennessee's failures. It's all about recruiting and coaching. And let's face it. Geno may be hated by most Lady Vols fans. But I think he is a smart and very likeable coach. He is a players coach. They really respect him. How many of our players actually respect Holly? That could be the real tell tell.

 

[Voltopia]

IMO, I think the ESPN selling point is overrated. Advantage = ESPN $$$$

Yeah, I oversold it in my description, it was not the right light to put it in. I meant to frame it as "and to top it all off," but put too much emphasis on it as playing a major role. I readily admit I have no idea if it actually is or is not an advantage -- and as I returned with later, the real selling point is winning all the damn time, ESPN or no ESPN. It's just like ... a nice little cherry on top of the sundae.

 

[Voltopia]

I agree. Most Tennessee fans look for any reason to JUSTIFY UCONN's success and Tennessee's failures. It's all about recruiting and coaching. And let's face it. Geno may be hated by most Lady Vols fans. But I think he is a smart and very likeable coach. He is a players coach. They really respect him. How many of our players actually respect Holly? That could be the real tell tell.

I don't think there's any reason aside from Pat getting sick, Geno being at the top of his game with respect to recruiting, and the sport itself being just big enough for a few big fish but not big enough to support parity like the mens game. That's all it really is. Had Pat not fallen ill, I think we'd still be in the thick of things and UT-UConn would have ran into one another a few more times in the tournament. It's not a big mystery.

 

[Voltopia]

And even with the WCBB team, there has been a lot of anger at ESPN for pushing the stories about all the old 2006 filing stuff between Pat and Geno while trying to put together a game between the two teams that few people want. No doubt that a lot of viewers would tune into a January game between the Vols and Huskies, but with all the ugliness it would stir up, it's not a winner for either team. Once one of the best series in sports, now the idea of any renewal should just be buried for the good of everybody. Tennessee is better off recruiting off a Vols vs. Gamecocks-Wildcats-Bulldogs-Aggies scenario than dragging the Huskies back into the picture.

I'd actually say I'd like it to come back, but only once the two staffs have turned over. It's the Yankees-Red Sox of the game. The home-and-home years were the best years, though I suppose I think that because we were competitive during those years. Even so, I always thought it was the most unique rivalry out there, and the home and home of it put both schools in this really weird-but-memorable "we're putting on our own show" category. But time has passed many things by. Oh well.

 

[LadyVol1908]

I'd actually say I'd like it to come back, but only once the two staffs have turned over. It's the Yankees-Red Sox of the game. The home-and-home years were the best years, though I suppose I think that because we were competitive during those years. Even so, I always thought it was the most unique rivalry out there, and the home and home of it put both schools in this really weird-but-memorable "we're putting on our own show" category. But time has passed many things by. Oh well.

Before I even was a fan of WCBK, I used to sit with my dad and watch those games and my god, that's when I fell in love with the game and Pat. As much basketball as I've watched since then, no games have felt like those back when both teams were competitive.
If we tried to play again, it just won't have the same luster it once did. Half the story line was PatvsGeno and America LOVED it!

 

[j'adorevol89]

Before I even was a fan of WCBK, I used to sit with my dad and watch those games and my god, that's when I fell in love with the game and Pat. As much basketball as I've watched since then, no games have felt like those back when both teams were competitive.
If we tried to play again, it just won't have the same luster it once did. Half the story line was PatvsGeno and America LOVED it!

1996 Final four game to me was the best in history Sales vs Holdsclaw... classic

 

[Voltopia]

Before I even was a fan of WCBK, I used to sit with my dad and watch those games and my god, that's when I fell in love with the game and Pat. As much basketball as I've watched since then, no games have felt like those back when both teams were competitive.
If we tried to play again, it just won't have the same luster it once did. Half the story line was PatvsGeno and America LOVED it!

That's the trick, though, right?

Is it Pat vs Geno?

Or is it Tennessee vs UConn?

Someday it's going to be more about the latter, and then we'll see just how far the sport has come.

 

[SAMCROVIPER]

1996 Final four game to me was the best in history Sales vs Holdsclaw... classic

Holdsclaw was the real deal! Her jump shot was deadly.

 

[madtownvol]

I'm impressed! The sunshine pumpers are working hard and into the wee hours of the morning!:wink2: I've heard the sad saga about injuries for the last several years. I'm beginning (almost) to believe the rhetoric...just my opinion, but Carter should never have been in the game against Syracuse since she could basically only dribble until harassed by a couple of defenders who saw blood in the water. There were options on the bench. Just another example of poor judgment by the coaching staff. Maybe some of you sunshine pumpers should make a sign that says "Send me your crippled, your hobbled, your walking wounded" to Tennessee so that we have an excuse when blown out by teams with far less talent...there were options...just not utilized. Syracuse didn't have half the talent... but looked much better prepared and played with greater heart and desire. Retired, former SEC coaches like Nell Fortner, Carolyn Peck, Andy Landers were perplexed all season by the inconsistent play of this team, and they weren't harping on injuries as an excuse.

Hmm, like your misquote of CHW, you seem to read what you want to read in these posts, rather than comprehending the meaning of the actual statements. Who are these "sunshine pumpers" that you reference? None of the responses to your post offered injury excuses. In fact, all agreed that the program has lost considerable ground to the evil empire and its dark lord, so why the belittling language?

Perhaps you resorted to name calling because everyone did not line-up for a bash Holly thread (as though this board needs another one of those). Such disappointment you must feel. You have my deepest sympathies.

As for Syracuse having half the talent, really what is your metric for judging that-- notoriously inaccurate high school rankings? Syracuse has super quick guards, two skilled and athletic 6-4 post players and a lights out 3-pt shooter who can also play defense and hit the boards (the LVs sure could have used one of those). And this same team took out the mighty USC and super coach Dawn Staley. So, I would say their talent is pretty damned good.

 

[LasVegasBill23]

Madtown, "notoriously inaccurate high school rankings"?? Come on.... 7 McD All Americans to 2 for Syracuse.... and are you saying that the ratings for the 7 that came to us, just happened to be the ones that were terribly inaccurate.... I think - and it is just my opinion - that we do not know how to develop our players as well as Coach Q and his staff has developed Peterson, Sykes, Day x 2, Butler, etc..... what else could explain a 22 point victory.... I have got to give credit to Syracuse, whose players seized the moment..... helped by the preparation from their coaches.....haven't seen them to the degree that I have watched our LVs obviously, but in the 3 or 4 games I saw them play this year..... I have seen improvement.

 

[madtownvol]

Madtown, "notoriously inaccurate high school rankings"?? Come on.... 7 McD All Americans to 2 for Syracuse.... and are you saying that the ratings for the 7 that came to us, just happened to be the ones that were terribly inaccurate.... I think - and it is just my opinion - that we do not know how to develop our players as well as Coach Q and his staff has developed Peterson, Sykes, Day x 2, Butler, etc..... what else could explain a 22 point victory.... I have got to give credit to Syracuse, whose players seized the moment..... helped by the preparation from their coaches.....haven't seen them to the degree that I have watched our LVs obviously, but in the 3 or 4 games I saw them play this year..... I have seen improvement.

Opposite point. Just because a player does not come in as an McD AA does not mean she lacks talent or potential. I am not sure how high the Syracuse players were ranked out of HS but they certainly are a very capable group.

 

[LasVegasBill23]

Oh I got it..... I think I misinterpreted what your point was..... I understand now.... True, McD crown not the fail-safe litmus test.

 

[meekfan]

They put players in the WNBA, they treat their players like star athletes in every sense of the word, and they're close to ESPN, which offers one of the few viable paths to employment for athletes who want to use their skills or their experience in the game after their competitive days are over. Given how far the sport has to go, it's only natural that players want to be close to that pipeline and those connections. ESPN's always had a lot of love for its local school.

And, whether we like it or not, the fact is that they get the best players year in and year out, and they get at least some improvement out of many of them through their system.

Ya know, I used to believe this also. I thought that was why we (and every other wbb team) was at a disadvantage.

The other day I read (I'll have to dig up the link) that someone did an analysis of the last eight years of players who came out of high school ranked by HoopGirls. They were 14th on the list. . . Pretty unbelievable but when you snag a Maya Moore or Stewart it kind of makes up for a lot.

 

[Sandvol]

Okay, first let's get the quote right. Here is what Holly said--SOURCE: http://www.asaptext.com/asap_media/media/65/321/transcripts/5471.pdf:

COACH WARLICK:


So, there is a significant difference in connotation between your paraphrase of "Sometimes we practice as hard as we play in games..." and Holly's actual statement that LV practices are sometimes HARDER than games.

But to the larger point, without question, Geno A. and company are doing some things that are getting unprecedented results. However, it is not just a failing of Holly; UConn is dominating everybody. So, you can say Holly is falling short but also Tara Vandaveer is falling short; Muffet McGraw is falling short; Brenda Freese is falling short; Dawn Staley is falling short and on and on down the list of top 25 programs. Are all these other programs simply lacking desire and effort?; I don't think so.

Geno and staff have an excellent eye for talent; recruit very effectively (and Storrs, CT is not the best lifestyle draw) and I think they must also be smarter in how they direct their players efforts.

I am not a fan of Geno but I concede that his team has significantly raised the bar and everybody needs to up their game (though some more than others).

Holly is one of the least impressive head coaches in women's basketball. That should not be for a school like Tennessee.

 

[SAMCROVIPER]

Ya know, I used to believe this also. I thought that was why we (and every other wbb team) was at a disadvantage.

The other day I read (I'll have to dig up the link) that someone did an analysis of the last eight years of players who came out of high school ranked by HoopGirls. They were 14th on the list. . . Pretty unbelievable but when you snag a Maya Moore or Stewart it kind of makes up for a lot.

...Chamique Holdsclaw or a Tamika Catchings or a Candace Parker

....Brittney Griner or a Odyssey Sims

Louisville, Maryland, Baylor and N.D. have the top recruiting classes for 2016.

 

[brassie]

Ya know, I used to believe this also. I thought that was why we (and every other wbb team) was at a disadvantage.

The other day I read (I'll have to dig up the link) that someone did an analysis of the last eight years of players who came out of high school ranked by HoopGirls. They were 14th on the list. . . Pretty unbelievable but when you snag a Maya Moore or Stewart it kind of makes up for a lot.

That's true but they have gotten 4 of the #1 players in the last 7 years.

I do believe that Auriemma pays less attention to rankings and more to potential and attitude. A great example was Dolson. Big, slow and out of shape, she was ranked #39 by Hoopgurlz. Yet by her senior year she was one of the top centers in the country.

 

[hokievol12]

Oh, by the way, Madtown, any "belittling language" was initiated by you. I never addressed you personally, guess you just wanted to get your rocks off in a personal way. The "quote" wasn't far off, even you described it as a "paraphrase"...so go back to defending the coach with the worst single season record in LV history...you do it well, insanity aside.

 

[madtownvol]

Oh, by the way, Madtown, any "belittling language" was initiated by you. I never addressed you personally, guess you just wanted to get your rocks off in a personal way. The "quote" wasn't far off, even you described it as a "paraphrase"...so go back to defending the coach with the worst single season record in LV history...you do it well, insanity aside.

That is a Trump-quality denial. HUUGE! But, exactly how did I initiate belittling language. Yes, I used the phrase but where was my language actually belittling you?

But did you or did you not refer to the posters on this thread as "sunshine pumpers" (for reasons that were not entirely clear)?

Was I defending CHW by pointing out that all other coaches are not measuring up to the Uconn standard? I don't think that is necessarily the case. Muffet McGraw is a much better coach than Holly even though she, like Holly, failed to make the Final four this year (or to go as far in the NCAA tournament for that matter). As I originally noted, some programs (i.e. the LVs) need to up their game more than others (ND, Texas, USC and so on).

What you can't seem to acknowledge is that one can discuss Holly, without always going into a full bashing mode.

Your OP was drawing a comparison between Uconn and the LVs and no question, the LVs don't match up BUT this discrepancy is just not a LV problem.

The other consideration is that you posited the reason for this gap could be traced to Holly's purported statement that "Sometimes we practice as hard as we play in games..."...To which you said "Folks, SOMETIMES doesn't cut it for a team striving to become elite.

Well, "sometimes" was not part of her actual statement nor was her intent to say that the LV's only practice hard sometimes (in fact her statement made the opposite point). So, yes, there was a MAJOR difference in your paraphrase and Holly's actual statement and intent.

You were wrong in the attribution and when called on it, what have you done?-- doubled down on the error.

At least Holly can admit a mistake....

 

[Coach Jumper]

Oh, by the way, Madtown, any "belittling language" was initiated by you. I never addressed you personally, guess you just wanted to get your rocks off in a personal way. The "quote" wasn't far off, even you described it as a "paraphrase"...so go back to defending the coach with the worst single season record in LV history...you do it well, insanity aside.

+++++++++++++++++++


Hokie,

The hardest thing to do in this forum is ignore those who only want to raise your ire. Don't feed the fire on those who just push you for sport or to bully..., it costs you credibility and gives those underlings a reason to call themselves impotent. (pun intended).

 

[LasVegasBill23]

That's true but they have gotten 4 of the #1 players in the last 7 years.

I do believe that Auriemma pays less attention to rankings and more to potential and attitude. A great example was Dolson. Big, slow and out of shape, she was ranked #39 by Hoopgurlz. Yet by her senior year she was one of the top centers in the country.

I think that is true.... I looked at recent rankings.... Kelly Faris was #34 and Kia Nurse was #33... they turned out pretty well also.....

Muffet did pretty well with Kayla McBride, a 30 something recruit and Achonwa.... those gals were game changers and played the game hard

 

[governmentmule]

I'm impressed! The sunshine pumpers are working hard and into the wee hours of the morning!:wink2: I've heard the sad saga about injuries for the last several years.

so your saying all the injuries that have plagued this team are nonexistent ? do some home work and you will see a severely banged up team since CHW took over

and it is better to be a sunshine pumper rather than a Troll :hi:

 

[governmentmule]

so go back to defending the coach with the worst single season record in LV history...you do it well, insanity aside.

yea I was really disappointed in an Elite 8 in the Tournament this past season:hi:

 

[hokievol12]

Right, Elite 8 post season...nowhere to be found in the final regular season AP and USA polls...guess those folks thought it was a great year also. Especially since they had the program pre-season #4...