HOF'er or no?

#51
#51
JTrainDavis said:
I can't see how he doesn't....but as you said, it depends on what they do to Bonds, McGwire, et al.

I don't see Sosa making it. I just don't think he was ever that good. The rest were impressive ballplayers outside of home runs.
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A-Rod is going to have some eye-popping numbers and it will be hard to exclude him for using PED's.

What I think makes his case interesting is that, like I said earlier, all signs point to him using before he even made the majors, where a guy like Bonds' was an all-timre great beforehand. Granted, I guess there really is no way of telling whether or not Barry was juicing back in the day.
 
#52
#52
GahLee said:
A-Rod is going to have some eye-popping numbers and it will be hard to exclude him for using PED's.

What I think makes his case interesting is that, like I said earlier, all signs point to him using before he even made the majors, where a guy like Bonds' was an all-timre great beforehand. Granted, I guess there really is no way of telling whether or not Barry was juicing back in the day.
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I have a good friend who played pro ball, made it to AA with the Angels, he said probably 70% were using at that time, 99-03
 
#54
#54
I don't doubt it, in that sense, don't you have to let these guys in?

Even Sosa?

He had one of the greatest 5 year stretches the games has ever seen.

If everyone is juicing, then why not let one of the best juicers ever in?

Just playing devil's advocate.
 
#55
#55
I see that side. That era is just a cockamaymied mess. Not sure on Mac or Sosa, i guess. As to Mac, I'm an anti DH/Slugging 1B for the hall guy, especially one who hit .263 for his career.

Sosa did string together 12 solid years, that might be enough for the era.
 
#56
#56
We could go on all day with this, and I do enjoy it. But it's hard for me to make up my mind on most of those guys besides Bonds and Clemens. And even then, I'm the doorman slipping a $50 into my back pocket.

But they were the feared hitters or their era, same as Jim Rice was.
 
#57
#57
Sosa was more than solid, from 1993 to to 1997 he has sonme very, very good years, then of course he started hitting everything 600 feet.

I can see what you are saying about Mark, all he did was hit HR, Sosa at least played some D and was a prety good base stealer at one point.
 
#58
#58
I like to think that you need to be a top 5 overall overall player/pitcher for 5 consecutive seasons, or 6 of 8.

Don't know that Sammy fits that.
 
#59
#59
GAVol said:
My favorite are the writers that as a matter of principle never vote for anyone in their first year of eligibility - as if their credentials are going to be any different the next time around.
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That idiocy cuts across sports. It's why Bob Knight took several years to get in the Hall of Fame. Writers didn't vote him in on his first eligibility to make a "statement" about how he treated him. So, Knight refused to let anyone enter his name for consideration for multiple years thereafter, saying pretty much "My credentials aren't significantly better now than they were then, so shove it up your asses."
 
#60
#60
JTrainDavis said:
I like to think that you need to be a top 5 overall overall player/pitcher for 5 consecutive seasons, or 6 of 8.

Don't know that Sammy fits that.
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From '95 to '03 he averaged the following.

55 HR, 143 RBI, 123 R.

:hi:
 
#61
#61
JTrainDavis said:
I like to think that you need to be a top 5 overall overall player/pitcher for 5 consecutive seasons, or 6 of 8.
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The Hall would be much, much smaller if that were the standard. As an example, Ernie Banks wouldn't have sniffed Cooperstown.
 
#62
#62
hatvol96 said:
The Hall would be much, much smaller if that were the standard. As an example, Ernie Banks wouldn't have sniffed Cooperstown.
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This is true, Perhaps I should have opened things by position to some extent. I just have a bias against those who don't play the field, or big dummies who get plugged at 1B to hit .270 and knock it over the wall.
 
#67
#67
hatvol96 said:
If you are talking National League only, maybe.
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Really?

Who else rivaled him?

I seriously don't know.

He had some great years, specifically from '55 to '60, when he lead the majors in HR and RBI twice.
 
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#68
#68
JTrainDavis said:
No, first impression.
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He is a guy that I thought was interesting to add to the list.

Looking at the numbers, no would probably be the anwser.

Depends on how much these guys value the WS titles and his 5 GG awards.

I don't think so either, was hoping someone would make the case to say otherwise.
 
#70
#70
JTrainDavis said:
You really can't value GG's, as they are a popularity handout more often than not.
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Indeed.

That is why I said how much "they" value it.

BBWA should know that the award is and has been a sham for a long time now.
 
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