Holly Postgame LSU

#51
#51
leejoek said:
A few years ago, there was a petition to oust a men's basketball coach. Is there a double standard because the subject here is white?
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Yes, every termination at UT is racial!:eek:lol:

Might have had something to do with a much beloved (prior to his demise) coach suddenly becoming available?:crazy:
 
#52
#52
Average coaches with above average talent will have some level of success...but never be great or win on the biggest stage-this is our Lady Vols under Holly. Great coaches however, can take average teams and beat the brakes off of teams like us on a regular basis. When a great coach has great talent on the floor-that is when championships are a realistic goal.

As long as Holly is here, we will always come up short of being a championship team.
 
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#53
#53
Just looked on Utsports.com and saw Holly's presser from yesterday. I didn't think she sounded clueless like ya'll are making out. She ID'd the problems, noted that she was NOT happy with her team and gave credit to LSu's players for their efforts.

I would expect the Ladyvols are in for some ass kicking sessions in the practices to come.

Now, we'll just have to see if they improve or quit?

The players presser was a total waste of time with MR & JN. They phoned it in just like in their game performance.
 
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#55
#55
lvocd said:
Was Cuonzo Martin born and raised in Knoxville, Tennessee? Holly was. Did Cuonzo Martin graduate from the University of Tennessee? No, but Holly did. Was Cuonzo Martin an all-American at Tennessee? Nope. Holly was. Was Cuonzo Martin the first Lady Vol to have her jersey raised to the rafters at UT as a great honor for all she did as a player? Obviously not, but Holly was a great Lady Vol who became an Olympian. Was Cuonzo Martin a coach at UT for more than 30 years? Nope. Was Cuonzo Martin handed over the coaches' whistle by Pat Summitt. Nope... Holly again.

These are the reasons -- not race -- that Holly won't get the Cuonzo Treatment.
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No one should have received the Cuonzo Treatment. No one. Certainly Holly doesn't deserve it. I sincerely hope that kind of low class, ineffective, show boating never occurs again at UT.

That said, your Holly history points are precisely the reason she has been treated like Teflon, despite clear evidence she is not effective at this level of coaching.

Her history as a player was glorious and, without question, something to be admired, celebrated and long remembered. She is a VFL and one of the greatest Lady Vols in history. Her history as a head coach, however, pretty clearly establishes that she doesn't have the tool kit to perform at the same high level in the coaching business. The Lady Vols have not been, and are not now, a well coached basketball team during her term. If the past is the best predictor of the future, we shouldn't expect much improvement while she stays.
 
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#56
#56
Lurker said:
No one should have received the Cuonzo Treatment. No one. Certainly Holly doesn't deserve it. I sincerely hope that kind of low class, ineffective, show boating never occurs again at UT.

That said, your Holly history points are precisely the reason she has been treated like Teflon, despite clear evidence she is not effective at this level of coaching.

Her history as a player was glorious and, without question, something to be admired, celebrated and long remembered. She is a VFL and one of the greatest Lady Vols in history. Her history as a head coach, however, pretty clearly establishes that she doesn't have the tool kit to perform at the same high level in the coaching business. The Lady Vols have not been, and are not now, a well coached basketball team during her term. If the past is the best predictor of the future, we shouldn't expect much improvement while she stays.
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I agree with your entire post.

I hate it that a LVFL like Holly just doesn't have the level of head coach skills that Tennessee's level of talent deserves, but she just doesn't. That doesn't mean Holly is a "disgusting" person like the other poster called her. She's not the greatest basketball mind, but she's a top-notch human being.

But these days, a coach needs more than just a big heart to keep the big jobs. That's just the way it is, and the way it should be.
 
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#57
#57
Tenacguy50 said:
I wish Fulmer would shock the world and fire her Holly soon! Maybe at the end of the season. If he loves the university as much as he says, then he should not let loyalty and friendship stand in the way. I believe he said in his presser he wanted all UT Athletic programs to be competitive and winners. Well Mr Fulmer you can start with Lady Vols BB.
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Catch 22 with Fulmer. He's loyal to a fault. Holly won't be fired until the house is on fire.
 
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#58
#58
The big problem is that Holly can recruit and with so many All Americans is able to win over 20 games never get fired as long as she does that. Something about winning 20 games and making the NCAA that the University of Tennessee accepts. Forget the past history the AD office is willing to accept less and they will as long as she keeps getting to the tourney.
It hasn't always been that way at least it didn't seem so because Pat Summit always made the final four. I think now that she is gone the standards have been lowered. If not last season would've been the end for Holly. If she got through that gonna take a lot to see a coaching change.
 
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#59
#59
alaVOL said:
Catch 22 with Fulmer. He's loyal to a fault. Holly won't be fired until the house is on fire.
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Fulmer is Acting AD last time I looked. Acting is short for "hold the fort until a real one shows up." Operative or action word being "hold".
 
#60
#60
Fulmer isn't on "hold." He's the AD and has a two-year contract that can be extended.
 
#61
#61
montbb47 said:
Fulmer is Acting AD last time I looked. Acting is short for "hold the fort until a real one shows up." Operative or action word being "hold".
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When was it that you looked .He is not "Acting " .He has a contract for two years
 
#62
#62
After yesterday's debacle, I think the only way CHW might get fired is if the Lady Vols miss making the NCAA Tournament for a couple of seasons.
 
#64
#64
Volfan2012 said:
The big problem is that Holly can recruit and with so many All Americans is able to win over 20 games never get fired as long as she does that. Something about winning 20 games and making the NCAA that the University of Tennessee accepts. Forget the past history the AD office is willing to accept less and they will as long as she keeps getting to the tourney.
It hasn't always been that way at least it didn't seem so because Pat Summit always made the final four. I think now that she is gone the standards have been lowered. If not last season would've been the end for Holly. If she got through that gonna take a lot to see a coaching change.
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I think this post hits the nail on the head. The standards are lower, and with the excellent recruiting Holly and her staff does, her teams will likely always make the Tourney and, most years, at least reach the Sweet 16. For most universities that kind of really good record would make its coach a legend.

But Tennessee, with it's rich history and all the advantages (financial support, administrative support, fan support) afforded it, SHOULD always be in serious conversations about national titles.

But they're not, and likely won't be again unless there's a change in leadership. It is what it is until it's something else.
 
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#65
#65
lvocd said:
I think this post hits the nail on the head. The standards are lower, and with the excellent recruiting Holly and her staff does, her teams will likely always make the Tourney and, most years, at least reach the Sweet 16. For most universities that kind of really good record would make its coach a legend.

But Tennessee, with it's rich history and all the advantages (financial support, administrative support, fan support) afforded it, SHOULD always be in serious conversations about national titles.

But they're not, and likely won't be again unless there's a change in leadership. It is what it is until it's something else.
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We might as well adjust expectations, because I doubt there will be a coaching change for the reasons mentioned. Holly has proven to be an extremely good recruiter, and she will continue to get enough good players to basically win 20 games on their own and make the tournament. We can celebrate those rare years that the team makes the Sweet 16 as some huge accomplishment.
 
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#66
#66
IDT UTAD has lowered standards all that much. Pat just held herself, her coaches and her players to much higher standards and invested personally in achieving them. You couldn't play for, or coach with, Pat and not share her standards, so I'm sure Holly embraces them and would love to carry them on. But Pat and Holly don't manage people, the process or expectations the same way... so their results aren't the same, either.
 
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#67
#67
Amb3096 said:
We might as well adjust expectations, because I doubt there will be a coaching change for the reasons mentioned. Holly has proven to be an extremely good recruiter, and she will continue to get enough good players to basically win 20 games on their own and make the tournament. We can celebrate those rare years that the team makes the Sweet 16 as some huge accomplishment.
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And really, it makes perfect sense that Holly's a great recruiter. It would be difficult to find another coach on the planet who is sweeter and who cares more about the lives and futures of the young women she recruits. Holly is a quality human being and everyone she comes in contact with can see and feel that. You can't blame young women and their parents for trusting Holly with their lives for 4 or more years.

She'd be PERFECT if she had as good a grip on what to do with a group of players during a timeout as she does with their feelings and families.
 
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#68
#68
gule said:
Just looked on Utsports.com and saw Holly's presser from yesterday. I didn't think she sounded clueless like ya'll are making out. She ID'd the problems, noted that she was NOT happy with her team and gave credit to LSu's players for their efforts.

I would expect the Ladyvols are in for some ass kicking sessions in the practices to come.

Now, we'll just have to see if they improve or quit?

The players presser was a total waste of time with MR & JN. They phoned it in just like in their game performance.
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Speaking of Pat, gule, yes Holly sounded like she was in the know!
 
#69
#69
lvocd said:
And really, it makes perfect sense that Holly's a great recruiter. It would be difficult to find another coach on the planet who is sweeter and who cares more about the lives and futures of the young women she recruits. Holly is a quality human being and everyone she comes in contact with can see and feel that. You can't blame young women and their parents for trusting Holly with their lives for 4 or more years.

She'd be PERFECT if she had as good a grip on what to do with a group of players during a timeout as she does with their feelings and families.
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I beg to differ that she has not thrown the players under the bus!
 
#70
#70
SGMVols said:
They blocked me for pointing out the dwindling attendance at home games year after year. Most of the time the arena is less than half full now. It's because most of the fans are elderly women who are starting to die off, and younger fans aren't coming to fill those open seats. No one my age wants to take time out of their busy lives to watch Holly Warlick underachieve with a team built almost entirely with 5 star recruits. We suffered enough of that under Butch Jones.
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would the fact that you can watch on tv or on line now have something to do with it too?
 
#72
#72
lvocd said:
I think this post hits the nail on the head. The standards are lower, and with the excellent recruiting Holly and her staff does, her teams will likely always make the Tourney and, most years, at least reach the Sweet 16. For most universities that kind of really good record would make its coach a legend.

But Tennessee, with it's rich history and all the advantages (financial support, administrative support, fan support) afforded it, SHOULD always be in serious conversations about national titles.

But they're not, and likely won't be again unless there's a change in leadership. It is what it is until it's something else.
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under Hart's reign when he decided to join admins things went downhill for the women. IMO they took advantage of Pat's illness to take control. If you look back they don't really care about the women's program as they once did. They don't want to invest in paying out what it would take to hire a high profile coach.
 
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#73
#73
Martic said:
under Hart's reign when he decided to join admins things went downhill for the women. IMO they took advantage of Pat's illness to take control. If you look back they don't really care about the women's program as they once did. They don't want to invest in paying out what it would take to hire a high profile coach.
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Let’s hope this isn’t true. Lady vol basketball can pay their own way, or get close. Not if they continue on this path. I have little faith in fulmer, but maybe he will fool me. We will see.
 
#75
#75
Martic said:
under Hart's reign when he decided to join admins things went downhill for the women. IMO they took advantage of Pat's illness to take control. If you look back they don't really care about the women's program as they once did. They don't want to invest in paying out what it would take to hire a high profile coach.
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It will never be written on my tombstone that I was a Dave Hart fan, but the AD merger needed to happen. Smart businesses don't pay two people to do a job that one person could do just as well.
 
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