Holly still can't coach.

[1CHATTVOL]

flawless victory! Unimane

Oh, come on.

 

[1CHATTVOL]

You didn't prove anything. You made some silly demand with a very narrow focus that allowed you to make some foolish claim of victory in your crusade for Warlick. You're asking the wrong questions, though.

Any real and honest reflection would start by realizing she is in a unique situation where she took over one of the two or three preeminent programs in her first HC job. What new coach is even remotely the same position as her?

So, contrary to your thinking, Guthridge is a great comparison, as there are so few examples of coaches taking over blue blood programs as their first job. He, as does Warlick, had a unique situation and advantage that coaches at Iowa State, South Florida or Arkansas didn't. That's why it's foolish to proclaim that any new coach in the last 6 years not making 2 Final Fours proves that expectations for Warlick are unrealistic. There are zero coaches who even were close to her in terms of the opportunities provided as a coach by simply being at Tennessee.

By the way, Guthridge isn't the only one. Joe B. Hall went to the Final Four twice in his first six years, with one title, and Mike Davis made a title game appearance in his second year as coach. Those are just off the top of my head and they were done in a much more competitive environment with the men's game than Warlick sees in the women's game.

Your "flawless victory" just further proved my point that what we have is a very rare and unique situation.

(And I also don't believe you pulled those coaches off the top of your head, but ok.)

I have never claimed that HW is the greatest coach alive. I think folks that know a lot more than we do have said she is doing well - not perfect but well. The stats back that up.

There's no need to judge her against some ridiculous standard while at the same time using things she does very well (like recruiting) as additional rope to hang her.

Personally, I wonder if the folks that come here to "fahr Holly" after every loss actually care about the program at all or if they just enjoy jumping on a negative bandwagon.

You spoke of crusades and being real and honest. Maybe you should turn those expectations inward.

 

[gule]

be quiet, you're dead. lol

 

[1CHATTVOL]

Fine, she's been a great second fiddle for many years, but clearly isn't good enough for the top spot. And, no, every top 25 program can't get into any recruit's house they choose.

This post is rife with excuses, deflections and whataboutisms, not a real defense of Warlick. Other coaches haven't done something, so it's bad to expect something of Warlick. Ridiculous.

None of your silly and increasingly desperate attempts to be Warlick's white knight distract from the fact that she isn't a particularly good head coach. And, just because there are other coaches who similarly aren't up to the job here, either, doesn't mean you keep her. It means, and bear with me for this earth shattering observation, you find someone who is.

You say clearly she isn't good enough. Well, apparently she is to a lot of folks closer to the program than you.


I think my post is just fine. You can try to put me down just like you're doing to HW. Oh, there will be a few football board creepers or curmudgeons that might applaud your "truth" .

There are also many more that are invested in the program and they are just tired of this recurring, senseless negativity.

If you judge someone too harshly against a ridiculous, nearly unattainable standard, then of course it can't be "defended". That's ludicrous.

I could list her accomplishments of 29/30-win seasons, multiple SEC championships, top recruiting classes, multiple Elite 8 finishes, 100% graduation rate, etc. But those won't please YOUR unattainable sense of success. If we'd gone to final four, would it really have changed your opinion? I don't think so.

 

[Unimane]

Your "flawless victory" just further proved my point that what we have is a very rare and unique situation.

(And I also don't believe you pulled those coaches off the top of your head, but ok.)

I have never claimed that HW is the greatest coach alive. I think folks that know a lot more than we do have said she is doing well - not perfect but well. The stats back that up.

There's no need to judge her against some ridiculous standard while at the same time using things she does very well (like recruiting) as additional rope to hang her.

Personally, I wonder if the folks that come here to "fahr Holly" after every loss actually care about the program at all or if they just enjoy jumping on a negative bandwagon.

You spoke of crusades and being real and honest. Maybe you should turn those expectations inward.

Inward? What the hell are you talking about?

People who care about the program speak out when they feel the program could be better serviced. If you want to hang your hat on Warlick and not UT, then that is your prerogative, but it doesn't mean those who are looking at her with a critical eye simply enjoy being negative or, even more absurd, don't like the program.

 

[1CHATTVOL]

be quiet, you're dead. lol

Don't hate, gule. I'm not a lesbian.

 

[Unimane]

You say clearly she isn't good enough. Well, apparently she is to a lot of folks closer to the program than you.


I think my post is just fine. You can try to put me down just like you're doing to HW. Oh, there will be a few football board creepers or curmudgeons that might applaud your "truth" .

There are also many more that are invested in the program and they are just tired of this recurring, senseless negativity.

If you judge someone too harshly against a ridiculous, nearly unattainable standard, then of course it can't be "defended". That's ludicrous.

I could list her accomplishments of 29/30-win seasons, multiple SEC championships, top recruiting classes, multiple Elite 8 finishes, 100% graduation rate, etc. But those won't please YOUR unattainable sense of success. If we'd gone to final four, would it really have changed your opinion? I don't think so.

Now an appeal to bandwagon? For someone who fashions themselves as the smartest person in the room, you sure do use a lot of logical fallacies.

I heard all these same, stupid arguments during the Jones era in football about "negavols" and people not being true fans or supporting the coach properly. Anyone, though, paying attention with a cursory knowledge of the sport can see there are coaching issues. The way teams play reflect coaching, training, etc. Playing below you talent level, being disorganized, lacking mental toughness are all trademarks of a poorly coached team.

Women's basketball is not a particularly deep sport, very top heavy, and UT possesses elite capabilities and talent and should be judged on those merits. She's not hitting those marks.

 

[1CHATTVOL]

Inward? What the hell are you talking about?

People who care about the program speak out when they feel the program could be better serviced. If you want to hang your hat on Warlick and not UT, then that is your prerogative, but it doesn't mean those who are looking at her with a critical eye simply enjoy being negative or, even more absurd, don't like the program.

If you think the program could be better serviced, are you doing all you can? Are you donating? Are you buying tickets? Merchandise? Do you attend road games and cheer on the team? Are you positive toward the team on social media where players and recruits might see? (Wait, I know that's a no. )

Have you contacted the A.D. with your concerns as uncovered by your critical eye? Or do you just swing by VN after you see the box score online and take a dump?

My point is that I think you're trying to beat a tired horse. And one that doesn't necessarily deserve it.

Hanging my hat on Warlick is supporting UT because that is who UT has hired for the position. You putting her down over & over again is not helping anyone, especially when she is to a large extent successful.

That's what I meant by turning inward. Check your own actions.

 

[1CHATTVOL]

Now an appeal to bandwagon? For someone who fashions themselves as the smartest person in the room, you sure do use a lot of logical fallacies.

I heard all these same, stupid arguments during the Jones era in football about "negavols" and people not being true fans or supporting the coach properly. Anyone, though, paying attention with a cursory knowledge of the sport can see there are coaching issues. The way teams play reflect coaching, training, etc. Playing below you talent level, being disorganized, lacking mental toughness are all trademarks of a poorly coached team.

Women's basketball is not a particularly deep sport, very top heavy, and UT possesses elite capabilities and talent and should be judged on those merits. She's not hitting those marks.

Wait, what marks are those again? This started for me because I'd watched you pretending to be the smartest one in the room then lacing-in a few put-downs making folks hesitant to challenge your tired, inaccurate opinions. Then there was the Holly is a bad coach because she hasn't been to two final fours in 5 seasons evaluation.

(I think one of Butch Jones biggest weaknesses was that he couldn't shut out the negativity. He was obsessed with pleasing the fans and media. The rising negativity fed this and helped turn a 9-win team into a 4-win team. But that's for another forum. )

We don't have to agree. No hard feelings. But your critical comments only serve to undermine unless you send them to someone who actually has the authority to evaluate Holly as TN'S coach.

 

[Unimane]

If you think the program could be better serviced, are you doing all you can? Are you donating? Are you buying tickets? Merchandise? Do you attend road games and cheer on the team? Are you positive toward the team on social media where players and recruits might see? (Wait, I know that's a no. )

Have you contacted the A.D. with your concerns as uncovered by your critical eye? Or do you just swing by VN after you see the box score online and take a dump?

My point is that I think you're trying to beat a tired horse. And one that doesn't necessarily deserve it.

Hanging my hat on Warlick is supporting UT because that is who UT has hired for the position. You putting her down over & over again is not helping anyone, especially when she is to a large extent successful.

That's what I meant by turning inward. Check your own actions.

None of that nonsense is my responsibility. I don't get paid by the UT athletic department, nor does the amount one "invests" in the program by buying a damn t-shirt or traveling to Starkvillle commensurate with the ability to comment on the performance of the team and coach. You really have the most absurd "true fan" justifications for your opinions that totally miss on reality.

Warlick is either the right person for the job or she isn't. The rest of your rambling is just noise.

 

[1CHATTVOL]

None of that nonsense is my responsibility. I don't get paid by the UT athletic department, nor does the amount one "invests" in the program by buying a damn t-shirt or traveling to Starkvillle commensurate with the ability to comment on the performance of the team and coach. You really have the most absurd "true fan" justifications for your opinions that totally miss on reality.

Warlick is either the right person for the job or she isn't. The rest of your rambling is just noise.

Once again, you just call everything foolish and everyone stupid. But you were right about one thing: you don't work for the athletic department.

And the athletic department has said she is right for the job.

 

[Unimane]

Once again, you just call everything foolish and everyone stupid. But you were right about one thing: you don't work for the athletic department.

And the athletic department has said she is right for the job.

No, I just call you this. And, saying the AD hired her isn't an argument (That logical fallacy thing again). The same AD hired Derek Dooley and Butch Jones.

 

[Darth_Vol]

Now an appeal to bandwagon? For someone who fashions themselves as the smartest person in the room, you sure do use a lot of logical fallacies.

I heard all these same, stupid arguments during the Jones era in football about "negavols" and people not being true fans or supporting the coach properly. Anyone, though, paying attention with a cursory knowledge of the sport can see there are coaching issues. The way teams play reflect coaching, training, etc. Playing below you talent level, being disorganized, lacking mental toughness are all trademarks of a poorly coached team.

Women's basketball is not a particularly deep sport, very top heavy, and UT possesses elite capabilities and talent and should be judged on those merits. She's not hitting those marks.

 

[1CHATTVOL]

No, I just call you this. And, saying the AD hired her isn't an argument (That logical fallacy thing again). The same AD hired Derek Dooley and Butch Jones.

Saying that those in power haven't fired her through 5.5 seasons is indeed a logical argument for her worth as a coach.

And just repeating debate terms like logical fallacy over and over does not make you correct. You mentioned straw man & bandwagon, but you neglected Ad Hominem where you just try and cut me down as if that's proof of anything.

I've offered some things to consider. Other than that, GLV.

 

[Unimane]

Saying that those in power haven't fired her through 5.5 seasons is indeed a logical argument for her worth as a coach.

And just repeating debate terms like logical fallacy over and over does not make you correct. You mentioned straw man & bandwagon, but you neglected Ad Hominem where you just try and cut me down as if that's proof of anything.

I've offered some things to consider. Other than that, GLV.

No, not getting fired isn't a measure of one's worth, unless you decide to aim really low for expectations. It's like saying I'm a good person because I haven't gone to jail. It's just silly. There's quite a gap between fulfilling potential and not getting fired.

Also, it's not ad hominem when the argument made by me isn't about you, but the specific reasons why Warlick isn't a good coach. On the other hand, saying Warlick is doing well because those in charge say so is a fallacy.

It seems as if I'm doing you a service with all these lessons. I'm certainly getting nothing in return, much less anything really to consider.

 

[1CHATTVOL]

No, not getting fired isn't a measure of one's worth, unless you decide to aim really low for expectations. It's like saying I'm a good person because I haven't gone to jail. It's just silly. There's quite a gap between fulfilling potential and not getting fired.

Also, it's not ad hominem when the argument made by me isn't about you, but the specific reasons why Warlick isn't a good coach. On the other hand, saying Warlick is doing well because those in charge say so is a fallacy.

It seems as if I'm doing you a service with all these lessons. I'm certainly getting nothing in return, much less anything really to consider.

No. The employer's determination of an employee's performance is a logical argument.

You didn't counter my arguments of performance stats, unreasonable standards, or employer determination. You just wrapped it up with my supplemental comments, dismissed them all, and called me foolish.

But thank you for the lessons...on how not to be.

 

[Rickster]

No, I just call you this. And, saying the AD hired her isn't an argument (That logical fallacy thing again). The same AD hired Derek Dooley and Butch Jones.

Pathetic logic on your part. Take your ignorant hate elsewhere.

 

[Ladyvol777]

One of Holly Warlick biggest problem in guard play. This is the first yeas she has good guard play. If you listen to the Mississippi State coach after the Tennessee game, he said you can not win in the SEC with out top guards. He said he starts 4 senior guards. He said the 5 was a good spot like Mercedes Russell, but it all about the guard play. In the second half of the Notre Dame game the guards took over the game. The same thing with Mississippi State. Next year we will have the best bunch of guards that Tennessee has had since I've been following them. Evina Westbrook, Anastasia Hayes, Meme Jackson, Zarielle Green, and Jazmine Massengill. With all that said I sure hope we get a great 5 in 2019, and 2020.

 

[Rickster]

Good guards make a critical difference. I'm excited about the guards we will have next year and after that. I would be more comfortable if we have the size and desire to rebound to compliment great guard play.

 

[Unimane]

No. The employer's determination of an employee's performance is a logical argument.

You didn't counter my arguments of performance stats, unreasonable standards, or employer determination. You just wrapped it up with my supplemental comments, dismissed them all, and called me foolish.

But thank you for the lessons...on how not to be.

"She's not fired yet" is simply the stupidest argument I've ever heard as a justification for a coach being successful. I outlined why she's not a great coach, but you prefer your narrative instead. Fine. But, you've proven to me, on numerous occasions, that you don't understand what you're really watching and, instead, fall back on erroneous justifiers, like this silly not fired reasoning.

 

[Unimane]

Pathetic logic on your part. Take your ignorant hate elsewhere.

It's quite sound logic, actually. And, no, I'll do what I damn well please.

 

[PineyBluff Vol]

Guthridge reached 2 Final Fours. As of now, Holly’s not in his league...try again!

Not at all a comparison, Guthridge went from player to assistant at Kansas State and then to North Carolina. Holly went from Nebraska to Virginia Tech to Tennessee.

Guthridge never had a season where his team was losing. The only program where Warlick had a winning percentage was at Tennessee...Me thinks Holly is not proven she is a winner in coaching.

 

[Orange Maniac]

Not at all a comparison, Guthridge went from player to assistant at Kansas State and then to North Carolina. Holly went from Nebraska to Virginia Tech to Tennessee.

Guthridge never had a season where his team was losing. The only program where Warlick had a winning percentage was at Tennessee...Me thinks Holly is not proven she is a winner in coaching.

That is some of the worst logic I have ever read. You did leave out her playing for Pat. What was the reason for that?

 

[leejoek]

That is some of the worst logic I have ever read. You did leave out her playing for Pat. What was the reason for that?

Back before PAT won a championship, the newspaper once mentioned that we were a bunch of pretty girls.

Yes, Holly is a local girl....never a head-coach elsewhere and no rings....

Please look at the banners hanging in the Arena. How is her credential compared to others?

 

[PineyBluff Vol]

That is some of the worst logic I have ever read. You did leave out her playing for Pat. What was the reason for that?

The logic that I feel is that Holly is not a very good coach! I could care less what type of player she was.