Honest Question for Democrats

[sonofUT62]

Lol @ all the trickle-down economists in here

So we’ve proven that you can incur a debt problem by cutting taxes and not reducing spending. And we’ve ALSO proven that you can incur a debt problem by not increasing or decreasing taxes and not decreasing spending. And THIRDLY….we’ve proven that you can run into problematic debt by increasing taxes but not decreasing spending. Who wants to tell OHvol40 what prize we have for him?

 

[sonofUT62]

How do states attract investment and jobs? By cutting taxes.
So wouldn't the inverse of raising taxes lead to reduced investment?
I will make a prediction.. next year...people will either be begging for a job or the state will be subsiding this inflation. Gonna be one way or the other.

Absolutely. But the taxes aren’t going to matter. Who could borrow money and make a go of it if these rates keep going this way? Dollywood? Cruise lines? Casinos for sure. Not companies that produce poultry, baby formula or building materials.

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

You pretend like this is a new issue, or a new tax.

The issue has been that corporations find ways to dodge taxes, so they pay nothing. Now, if you really want to deal with the problem, the solution is easy: All net income to a corporation is taxed at some point, which would include:

1) As to shareholders, any time a dividend is paid, tax all dividends at a set rate, say 15%. (In the alternative, allow people to declare dividends as income each time, paying the rate they pay on any income, passive or not).

2) As to corporate officers, tax all salaries and bonuses, including stock options, at a reasonable rate, not to be influenced by deductions.

3) As to the corporations themselves, if they use the net income in a given year to do stock buybacks, tax the buybacks at a set rate. I think 20 % is about right but it is open to negotiation.


Corporations save money because they don't have to pay for accountants to find ways to bleed off profit to avoid taxes. The US government benefits by increased tax revenue from the people actually benefiting from the income. The consumer benefits because there is no need to increase prices for the product or service to pay corporate taxes.

Have you ever seen a tax on success that you don't like?

 

[Orangeburst]

Absolutely. But the taxes aren’t going to matter. Who could borrow money and make a go of it if these rates keep going this way? Dollywood? Cruise lines? Casinos for sure. Not companies that produce poultry, baby formula or building materials.

I think of inflation as monetary and supply & demand inflation, which we are suffering both.
Maybe the Great Resignation is more a screw you I am sick of this crap. In my experience, it is true, and just puts a burden on the experienced. So replace them with a newbie generation and let them ride.
Experience now would be my first choice in any employment position. But you gotta pay. Now that is true supply and demand

 

[sonofUT62]

I think of inflation as monetary and supply & demand inflation, which we are suffering both.
Maybe the Great Resignation is more a screw you I am sick of this crap. In my experience, it is true, and just puts a burden on the experienced. So replace them with a newbie generation and let them ride.
Experience now would be my first choice in any employment position. But you gotta pay. Now that is true supply and demand

Definitely agree we have a problem with both.

 

[Vol423]

The unemployment numbers have not meant much in quite awhile. Labor Participation Rate is a better metric.

Correct, and total labor participation is apparently still about 1 million less than it was prior to start of Covid in the U.S. Keep in mind that we've also added probably at least 3 million illegals to the U.S. population since Biden was inaugurated as well.

 

[Vol423]

You are peacocking your ignorance of the subject.

Thank you, DC. I was just reading through this thread and was wondering how long it was going to take for someone to tell lawgator he has no clue what he's talking about.

 

[Orangeburst]

So we had the worst month ever at our company. After a record month for me last month and projects I have worked for a long time. Seeing management emails about it to all of us. But the owner said the non biased economists said everything is going swimmingly. And to think our main metric is invoicing with 6-12 month deliveries..lol. Now it is bookings as well..

#revisingnmyplaneveryday.

 

[Vol423]

I'd put you halfway between the millennials and the gen x bunch. You guys still have a work ethic.

Someone that is 45 now is Generation X.

 

[Vol423]

Gravity my friend..is more Science based than trickle up

Liberals aren't into trickle up. They believe in outright confiscation.

 

[Orangeburst]

Liberals aren't into trickle up. They believe in outright confiscation.

They believe in the LCD, not the HCD

 

[NorthDallas40]

So we had the worst month ever at our company. After a record month for me last month and projects I have worked for a long time. Seeing management emails about it to all of us. But the owner said the non biased economists said everything is going swimmingly. And to think our main metric is invoicing with 6-12 month deliveries..lol. Now it is bookings as well..

#revisingnmyplaneveryday.

The only industry I know of that gauges bookings as a growth metric is the defense contracting industry and that’s due to the crazy long timelines and incremental progress payments for invoicing.

The only reason I can see them beating you up on bookings is they expect them to go down in the near term and they want people watching them?

 

[0nelilreb]

They don't care. The last thing an authoritarian government wants is a strong, independent middle class.

This is spot on ! The wealthy can be negotiated with behind closed doors , the poor can be forced , it’s the middle class that cares the load and makes the gears grind .

 

[Orangeburst]

deleted

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

You pretend like this is a new issue, or a new tax.

The issue has been that corporations find ways to dodge taxes, so they pay nothing. Now, if you really want to deal with the problem, the solution is easy: All net income to a corporation is taxed at some point, which would include:

1) As to shareholders, any time a dividend is paid, tax all dividends at a set rate, say 15%. (In the alternative, allow people to declare dividends as income each time, paying the rate they pay on any income, passive or not).

2) As to corporate officers, tax all salaries and bonuses, including stock options, at a reasonable rate, not to be influenced by deductions.

3) As to the corporations themselves, if they use the net income in a given year to do stock buybacks, tax the buybacks at a set rate. I think 20 % is about right but it is open to negotiation.


Corporations save money because they don't have to pay for accountants to find ways to bleed off profit to avoid taxes. The US government benefits by increased tax revenue from the people actually benefiting from the income. The consumer benefits because there is no need to increase prices for the product or service to pay corporate taxes.

1) Profits are taxed before what’s leftover is added to retained earnings on corporate balance sheets. Individuals are taxed on the dividends they receive and those distributions aren’t deductible to the corporation. But you think that TRIPLE taxation of the earnings is a good idea?

3) So if share prices are driven down (shares are owned by citizens BTW) by Wall Street manipulators, you want to penalize corporations for making purchases on the open markets? What if shares of subsidiaries are purchased from minority shareholders - do you want to give the government a piece of that activity as well?

 

[BigOrangeMojo]

You pretend like this is a new issue, or a new tax.

The issue has been that corporations find ways to dodge taxes, so they pay nothing. Now, if you really want to deal with the problem, the solution is easy: All net income to a corporation is taxed at some point, which would include:

1) As to shareholders, any time a dividend is paid, tax all dividends at a set rate, say 15%. (In the alternative, allow people to declare dividends as income each time, paying the rate they pay on any income, passive or not).

2) As to corporate officers, tax all salaries and bonuses, including stock options, at a reasonable rate, not to be influenced by deductions.

3) As to the corporations themselves, if they use the net income in a given year to do stock buybacks, tax the buybacks at a set rate. I think 20 % is about right but it is open to negotiation.


Corporations save money because they don't have to pay for accountants to find ways to bleed off profit to avoid taxes. The US government benefits by increased tax revenue from the people actually benefiting from the income. The consumer benefits because there is no need to increase prices for the product or service to pay corporate taxes.

Obviously not TaxLawGator

If officers exercise stock options, receive bonuses, or W2 wages, they include that in their 1040s. Large Corps can only deduct $1M of these payments per officer against their taxes

If a Corp has net taxable income, they are paying it at a rate if 21% (plus state). Buybacks increase stock prices so when individuals sell that stock, they pay capital gains taxes. Now you want to add 20% tax to that.

 

[BigOrangeMojo]

See boldface comments.

Options are taxable income to the recipient when exercised. Most granted options are nonqualfiied, which means income is subject to ordinary income rates. If CEO exercises options worth $20M, they will include $20M in their income. The Company can only deduct $1M of Top 5 officer comp on their taxes.

(Note, the Trump tax law changed how companies could deduct bonus and option compensation. Prior to TCJA, most companies devised plans where options and bonuses weren't subject to the $1M limitation. TCJA closed that loophole.)

 

[BigOrangeMojo]

Wouldn’t the proposed 15% Corporate Tax bill just push most of that cost to the consumer making things worse?

Honestly, no. A Corporate minimum tax change will have little to no impact on consumer pricing. Did you see a 14% reduction in prices when TCJA passed in 2017? (I'm not arguing the benefits of TCJA but gross and operating margins did not change at all pre and post reform so obviously there was no pricing decrease.)

Long story short is corporate taxes impact companies different. Here's an example. Company A has little to no taxable income so it is not really impacted by rate going from 15% to 35% (for example). Company A would have no reason to raise prices to make up for additional taxes. Company B is profitable so a rate increase would hurt them. If Company B raises prices to cover cost of tax law, they'd lose market share to Company A. Given how income taxes vary based on global footprint, type of legal entity, profitability, industry, etc. it's harder to pass those increases along since each company is impacted differently.

Now, if payroll taxes went up, that would be be passed along since that impacts companies more uniformly.

 

[BigOrangeMojo]

Wouldn’t the proposed 15% Corporate Tax bill just push most of that cost to the consumer making things worse?

I dont see this impacting prices much at all. This global minimum tax is going to impact only a relatively small number of companies and the impact won't be uniform across the board. You will have industries where some companies are impacted and others aren't. For example, Home Depot might be impacted due to their global footprint, investment strategy, and legal setup and Lowes isnt impacted at all. If Home Depot is impacted, they arent going to raise their prices 15% or they will lose share to Lowes.

But yeah, this won't help with investment.

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

Lol @ all the trickle-down economists in here

You laughing people? Me COVId had a 7% death rate? Please.

 

[GroverCleveland]

Options are taxable income to the recipient when exercised. Most granted options are nonqualfiied, which means income is subject to ordinary income rates. If CEO exercises options worth $20M, they will include $20M in their income. The Company can only deduct $1M of Top 5 officer comp on their taxes.

(Note, the Trump tax law changed how companies could deduct bonus and option compensation. Prior to TCJA, most companies devised plans where options and bonuses weren't subject to the $1M limitation. TCJA closed that loophole.)

Thanks for stepping in and clarifying the rules on this. Effectively, it seems that during the Trump Administration cleaned some things up. Not holding my breath for any of the TDS posters to acknowledge it.

 

[Godfatha]

What? Boomers are still in charge of this nightmare train

And millenials and Gen Z keep voting for it, so they can't blame everything on boomers. They want their big social programs too.

 

[Godfatha]

Lol @ all the trickle-down economists in here

lol at the morons who think corporate taxes don't get passed down onto the consumers.

lol at the morons who don't realize a tax like this is very inflationary.