How Do I Get My Free Obama Care?

#26
#26
MG1968 said:
your first cartoon was asinine and inaccurate. Jesus was all about looking out for people, but he would never have used the tip of the Roman spear to force compassion.

the second wasn't too far from the truth, although when push came to shove, the blue dogs turned into lapdogs
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Not my cartoon. Just one I found. It's definitely inaccurate, but it's a cartoon so whatever.
 
#29
#29
Sabanocchio said:
62% of all bankruptcies in the United States are caused by medical bills, and 78% of those people had private health insurance .

Diana Furchtgott-Roth, a senior fellow at the right-wing Hudson Institute tried to tell the committee that moving toward a European-style single payer insurance system would actually increase the number of medical bankruptcies. This outrageous lie was too much for Sen. Franken, and he had the following exchange with Furchtgott-Roth:

FRANKEN: I think we disagree on whether health care reform, the health care reform that we’re talking about in Congress now should pass. You said that the way we’re going will increase bankruptcies. I want to ask you, how many medical bankruptcies because of medical crises were there last year in Switzerland?

FURCHTGOTT-ROTT: I don’t have that number in front of me, but I can find out and get back to you.

FRANKEN: I can tell you how many it was. It’s zero. Do you know how many medical bankruptcies there were last year in France?

FURCHTGOTT-ROTT: I don’t have that number, but I can get back to you if I like.

FRANKEN: Yeah, the number is zero. Do you know how many were in Germany?

FURCHTGOTT-ROTT: From the trend of your questions, I’m assuming the number is zero. But I don’t know the precise number and would have to get back to you.

FRANKEN: Well, you’re very good. Very fast. The point is, I think we need to go in that direction, not the opposite direction. Thank you.

Although he made quickly made his point that Furchtgott-Roth either didn't know what she was talking about or was telling an outright lie, Sen. Franken could have gone on listing many other countries. Great Britain, Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Canada and many other countries also have ZERO medical bankruptcies.
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So what is the point here? What we had was people who had bought the wrong kind of health insurance, if they had paid out of pocket for the small stuff but had a catastrophic plan that covered the kinds of accidents or illnesses that obviously bankrupted them they wouldn't be in that situation.

Once again when everything is boiled down it becomes a case of saving people from their own stupidity or naivety at great expense.
 
#30
#30
The reason they have no medical bankruptcies is because the government runs the healthcare system. They also run the media in those countries, so how much unbiased media do you think comes out of those countries. Of course they are gong to claim that their healthcare systems are the best in the world. Its propoganda!!
 
#31
#31
Medical bankrupcies as a measure? Awesome. Those will go away and we can have a euro economy in which Mr Franken can do lobotomies - legally.
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#32
#32
CountVolcula said:
The reason they have no medical bankruptcies is because the government runs the healthcare system. They also run the media in those countries, so how much unbiased media do you think comes out of those countries. Of course they are gong to claim that their healthcare systems are the best in the world. Its propoganda!!
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Isn't it a little early to be this drunk?
 
#34
#34
shootermcgavin7 said:
At least tell me you understand adverse selection and moral hazard.












Please.
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And you remind us how that means federalizing anything is better? Whoa, aren't you the PhD student destined for education. Maybe you're the wrong guy.

What if the gov't let the program roll and generated a list of maladies for gov't pooled insurance would be available?
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#35
#35
screw this mess I'm going to Cuba for my healthcare. Bet I could get my knee fixed pretty quick there
 
#36
#36
utvolpj said:
screw this mess I'm going to Cuba for my healthcare. Bet I could get my knee fixed pretty quick there
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won't work, James Bond blew up the last good, private medical center in Cuba. If you're lucky, Michael Moore will plop his fat ass on your other knee.
 
#37
#37
MG1968 said:
won't work, James Bond blew up the last good, private medical center in Cuba. If you're lucky, Michael Moore will plop his fat ass on your other knee.
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well dang I guess the 2 weeks from exam to surgery I get here will have to suffice. Better do it quick though...
 
#38
#38
BigPapaVol said:
And you remind us how that means federalizing anything is better? Whoa, aren't you the PhD student destined for education. Maybe you're the wrong guy.

What if the gov't let the program roll and generated a list of maladies for gov't pooled insurance would be available?
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I laid out the line of thought in a post a few months ago. You even posted in this thread, I believe. I will go over it again if you so request.

Basically, anyone who has taken a course in any business school, anywhere, should understand why free markets in the health insurance world lead to market failure.

Oh no? That's funny............................................not a single developed country operates with "free market" health insurance markets. What demon communist magic that must be!!!!!








Aside: your attacking my background instead of my point only enforces my belief that you don't know what the hell you are whining about; instead of discussing my point you ramble and moan about an invented background. However, to clear up your misconception: I'm finishing my finance PhD. Previously, I was a computer programmer, made my way into accounting/finance, and finally into Big4 consulting. I worked with US manufacturers on risk management and derivatives before I went back to school. Maybe I'm the wrong guy...a "teacher" with no "real world experience" who happened to work years with CFOs, controllers, and treasurers on FX swaps and commodity hedges.

Hopefully I won't have to discuss my background a third time, but I happily will if you ask me to.
 
#41
#41
BigPapaVol said:
All that fancy finance stuff is intimidating as hell.
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Not really. I realize you are being sarcastic, but I am a believer in the fact that one must be able to describe what they do in one sentence. I didn't feel that need since you obviously had no interest in a "real" answer.



On-topic: The reason health insurance markets won't work on their own is pretty simple. As I said, I have already pointed this out in a post a few months ago, which I believe you posted in.
 
#43
#43
shootermcgavin7 said:
Not really. I realize you are being sarcastic, but I am a believer in the fact that one must be able to describe what they do in one sentence. I didn't feel that need since you obviously had no interest in a "real" answer.



On-topic: The reason health insurance markets won't work on their own is pretty simple. As I said, I have already pointed this out in a post a few months ago, which I believe you posted in.
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And I don't buy it. Forced underwriting might cause your problem. Otherwise, insurers made it work.
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#44
#44
shootermcgavin7 said:
I laid out the line of thought in a post a few months ago. You even posted in this thread, I believe. I will go over it again if you so request.

Basically, anyone who has taken a course in any business school, anywhere, should understand why free markets in the health insurance world lead to market failure.

Oh no? That's funny............................................not a single developed country operates with "free market" health insurance markets. What demon communist magic that must be!!!!!








Aside: your attacking my background instead of my point only enforces my belief that you don't know what the hell you are whining about; instead of discussing my point you ramble and moan about an invented background. However, to clear up your misconception: I'm finishing my finance PhD. Previously, I was a computer programmer, made my way into accounting/finance, and finally into Big4 consulting. I worked with US manufacturers on risk management and derivatives before I went back to school. Maybe I'm the wrong guy...a "teacher" with no "real world experience" who happened to work years with CFOs, controllers, and treasurers on FX swaps and commodity hedges.

Hopefully I won't have to discuss my background a third time, but I happily will if you ask me to.
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I don't suppose you expect a weak individual mandate to counterbalance the very real problem of adverse selection (resulting from guaranteed issue and limits on risk-based pricing) or that of moral hazard (resulting from further decreasing out of pocket costs through tax credits [which were already only about 14% of total cost on average]).
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#45
#45
MG1968 said:
Hugo Chavez and the Castro brothers disagree.
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I'm sorry. I thought we were talking about European countries where it was alleged that the state "ran the media".

There are plenty of places where the state does run the media. Germany, France, et al are not among them.
 
#46
#46
BigPapaVol said:
And I don't buy it. Forced underwriting might cause your problem. Otherwise, insurers made it work.
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Lol - wage caps instituted during WWII made it work. Otherwise we would have a public plan like EVERY OTHER developed country on the planet.
 
#48
#48
paul1454 said:
I don't suppose you expect a weak individual mandate to counterbalance the very real problem of adverse selection (resulting from guaranteed issue and limits on risk-based pricing) or that of moral hazard (resulting from further decreasing out of pocket costs through tax credits [which were already only about 14% of total cost on average]).
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I never said that Obama's plan was any better than the status quo.


Just that the status quo was worse than a single-insurer system.
 
#49
#49
BigPapaVol said:
Makes no sense.
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I'm sorry that you feel that way. I will try to post back later with an intuitive example as to why free markets do not work in health insurance.


Hopefully you can at least understand that we are the only developed county without a public insurer. According to market fundamentalists, this should be a good thing. Yet we pay a hell of a lot more, per person, on medical care.

If you actually give a crap, I can explain to you how the wage caps in WWII caused our current employer/private insurance plans, I'll try to come back around 10pm tonight.
 
#50
#50
shootermcgavin7 said:
I'm sorry that you feel that way. I will try to post back later with an intuitive example as to why free markets do not work in health insurance.


Hopefully you can at least understand that we are the only developed county without a public insurer. According to market fundamentalists, this should be a good thing. Yet we pay a hell of a lot more, per person, on medical care.

If you actually give a crap, I can explain to you how the wage caps in WWII caused our current employer/private insurance plans, I'll try to come back around 10pm tonight.
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I don't care. All of those countries can be complacent because our country exports enough technological advances to allow it. Otherwise, that arena changes dramatically.
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