How do we win in Afghanistan?

#126
#126
Orangedogsrule said:
I voted for him because he's not a Democrat and NOT HiLIARly the Hildabeast. Didn't like him. Still don't. But literally anything crawling out of the gutter is better than that sewer rat HRC.
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Clinton was incredibly unlikeable, but she was also by far the most qualified. It shows just how pathetic our electorate is that they went for a flashy guy with hollow, superficial, and often remarkably dumb rhetoric, just to avoid voting for the competent person they did not find entertaining or likeable.

The country deserves the resulting disaster of an administration. Maybe this is part of the country's growing process, and decades from now, when another idiot runs and appeals to people's worst instincts, everyone will have the sense to remember the enormous mistake made in who won in 2016.
 
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#127
#127
FLVOL_79 said:
Maybe someday we will have administration that doesn't mind rolling into a country, destroying it and making it even worse than it original was, killing who needed to be killed, then flip them the bird and leave. No more nation building.
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That will be awesome, cheaper and more effective.
 
#128
#128
lawgator1 said:
Clinton was incredibly unlikeable, but she was also by far the most qualified. It shows just how pathetic our electorate is that they went for a flashy guy with hollow, superficial, and often remarkably dumb rhetoric, just to avoid voting for the competent person they did not find entertaining or likeable.

The country deserves the resulting disaster of an administration. Maybe this is part of the country's growing process, and decades from now, when another idiot runs and appeals to people's worst instincts, everyone will have the sense to remember the enormous mistake made in who won in 2016.
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Was Obama more qualified than Clinton or McCain in 08'?
 
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#129
#129
lawgator1 said:
Clinton was incredibly unlikeable, but she was also by far the most qualified. It shows just how pathetic our electorate is that they went for a flashy guy with hollow, superficial, and often remarkably dumb rhetoric, just to avoid voting for the competent person they did not find entertaining or likeable.

The country deserves the resulting disaster of an administration. Maybe this is part of the country's growing process, and decades from now, when another idiot runs and appeals to people's worst instincts, everyone will have the sense to remember the enormous mistake made in who won in 2016.
Click to expand...

Clinton wasn't more qualified by any metric. She was incompetent as sos and failed in spectacular fashion in her biggest task (Libya). She was only better at shaking down and fixing. I'm no fan of Trump but he has at least created something. If you asked Hillary to build something or create something without stealing it, she'd have another one of her strokes.
 
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#130
#130
midnight orange said:
Clinton wasn't more qualified by any metric. She was a disaster as sos and failed in spectacular fashion in her biggest task (Libya). She was only better at shaking down and fixing. I'm no fan of Trump but he has at least created something. If you asked Hillary to build something or create something without stealing it, she'd have another one of her strokes.
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I've ways liked how Obama supporters want to cry about "Qualifications". Lol
 
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#131
#131
lawgator1 said:
Clinton was incredibly unlikeable, but she was also by far the most qualified. It shows just how pathetic our electorate is that they went for a flashy guy with hollow, superficial, and often remarkably dumb rhetoric, just to avoid voting for the competent person they did not find entertaining or likeable.

The country deserves the resulting disaster of an administration. Maybe this is part of the country's growing process, and decades from now, when another idiot runs and appeals to people's worst instincts, everyone will have the sense to remember the enormous mistake made in who won in 2016.
Click to expand...

I think a lot of the "Well, better him than Hillary." crowd were counting on him being a dufus but, since neither party actually likes him, be limited in what he could really accomplish, particularly that can't be reversed afterward.

The real upside for those with this line of thinking was a big flying bird at both major parties to do a better job of bringing candidates people might actually want vs candidates you hate the least. JMO
 
#132
#132
lawgator1 said:
Clinton was incredibly unlikeable, but she was also by far the most qualified. It shows just how pathetic our electorate is that they went for a flashy guy with hollow, superficial, and often remarkably dumb rhetoric, just to avoid voting for the competent person they did not find entertaining or likeable.

The country deserves the resulting disaster of an administration. Maybe this is part of the country's growing process, and decades from now, when another idiot runs and appeals to people's worst instincts, everyone will have the sense to remember the enormous mistake made in who won in 2016.
Click to expand...

More qualified than who?
 
#133
#133
lawgator1 said:
Romney was incredibly unlikeable, but he was also by far the most qualified. It shows just how pathetic our electorate is that they went for a flashy guy with hollow, superficial, and often remarkably dumb rhetoric, just to avoid voting for the competent person they did not find entertaining or likeable.
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Fyp
 
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#134
#134
Erik Prince, the founder of Black Water and brother of Secretary of Education Betsy DeVos proposed a plan to Steve Bannon and other members in the NSC that would allow U.S. Government to outsource the military's role in Afghanistan to contractors who would then act as modern-day East India Company. Prince called for the President to appoint a
viceroy to oversee the country.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/10/...stan-policy-erik-prince-stephen-feinberg.html

http://www.businessinsider.com/new-...using-erik-prince-military-contractors-2017-7

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-macarthur-model-for-afghanistan-1496269058

Also President Trump is angered at the fact that General Nicholson told congressional armed services committees that the war in Afghanistan is being lost and he needs more troops and resources to turn it around. That's why he wants to fire him.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/mcmaster-goes-to-waragainst-his-white-house-enemies
 
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#135
#135
carlos86 said:
Erik Prince, the founder of Black Water and brother of Secretary of Education Betsy DeVos proposed a plan to Steve Bannon and other members in the NSC that would allow U.S. Government to outsource the military's role in Afghanistan to contractors who would then act as modern-day East India Company.

Also President Trump is angered at the fact that General Nicholson told congressional armed services committees that the war in Afghanistan is being lost and he needs more troops and resources to turn it around. That's why he wants to fire him.
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Love those links, Carlos!
 
#136
#136
carlos86 said:
Erik Prince, the founder of Black Water and brother of Secretary of Education Betsy DeVos proposed a plan to Steve Bannon and other members in the NSC that would allow U.S. Government to outsource the military's role in Afghanistan to contractors who would then act as modern-day East India Company. Prince called for the President to appoint a
viceroy to oversee the country.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/10/...stan-policy-erik-prince-stephen-feinberg.html

http://www.businessinsider.com/new-...using-erik-prince-military-contractors-2017-7

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-macarthur-model-for-afghanistan-1496269058

Also President Trump is angered at the fact that General Nicholson told congressional armed services committees that the war in Afghanistan is being lost and he needs more troops and resources to turn it around. That's why he wants to fire him.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/mcmaster-goes-to-waragainst-his-white-house-enemies
Click to expand...

Do we pay per scalp?
 
#137
#137
n_huffhines said:
"During the July 19 meeting, Trump repeatedly suggested that Defense Secretary James Mattis and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Gen. Joseph Dunford replace Gen. John Nicholson, the commander of U.S. forces in Afghanistan, because he is not winning the war, the officials said. Trump has not met Nicholson, and the Pentagon has been considering extending his time in Afghanistan.

He also startled the room with a story that seemed to compare their advice to that of a paid consultant who cost a tony New York restaurateur profits by offering bad advice."
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I'm not sure if this is only an American phenomenon, but I find it odd politicians tie the hands of a general, then blame the general when things aren't going well. To top it off, the politicians think they can fix things by replacing the general. A great comparison is when the general manager that can't draft worth a crap, fires the coach because the team isn't winning.

I don't follow Nicholson very closely, but the few times I've encountered him, he seems to be quite capable. It's insanity to think a change in command is going to make us start winning.
 
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#138
#138
red butler said:
I'm not sure if this is only an American phenomenon, but I find it odd politicians tie the hands of a general, then blame the general when things aren't going well. To top it off, the politicians think they can fix things by replacing the general. A great comparison is when the general manager that can't draft worth a crap, fires the coach because the team isn't winning.

I don't follow Nicholson very closely, but the few times I've encountered him, he seems to be quite capable. It's insanity to think a change in command is going to make us start winning.
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It's important to view this in context. Remember, Trump claims to know more than the generals. Trump obviously is our most militarily astute president in history.....at least in his own diluted mind.
 
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#139
#139
carlos86 said:
Erik Prince, the founder of Black Water and brother of Secretary of Education Betsy DeVos proposed a plan to Steve Bannon and other members in the NSC that would allow U.S. Government to outsource the military's role in Afghanistan to contractors who would then act as modern-day East India Company. Prince called for the President to appoint a
viceroy to oversee the country.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/10/...stan-policy-erik-prince-stephen-feinberg.html

http://www.businessinsider.com/new-...using-erik-prince-military-contractors-2017-7

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-macarthur-model-for-afghanistan-1496269058

Also President Trump is angered at the fact that General Nicholson told congressional armed services committees that the war in Afghanistan is being lost and he needs more troops and resources to turn it around. That's why he wants to fire him.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/mcmaster-goes-to-waragainst-his-white-house-enemies
Click to expand...

I'd quit my job to roll out east for some Blackwater-esque action. Work a few years, then retire.
 
#141
#141
U.S. Leaves Vacuum in Afghanistan. Iran Rushes In.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/05/...l?smprod=nytcore-ipad&smid=nytcore-ipad-share

"The Taliban swarmed the farmlands surrounding his post and seized the western riverbank here in Farah, the capital of the province by the same name. It was the start of a three-week siege in October, and only after American air support was called in to end it and the smoke cleared did Afghan security officials realize who was behind the lightning strike: Iran. Four senior Iranian commandos were among the scores of dead, Afghan intelligence officials said, noting their funerals in Iran. Many of the Taliban dead and wounded were also taken back across the nearby border with Iran, where the insurgents had been recruited and trained, village elders told Afghan provincial officials. The assault, coordinated with attacks on several other cities, was part of the Taliban’s most ambitious attempt since 2001 to retake power. But it was also a piece of an accelerating Iranian campaign to step into a vacuum left by departing American forces — Iran’s biggest push into Afghanistan in decades."
 
#142
#142
lawgator1 said:
Clinton was incredibly unlikeable, but she was also by far the most qualified. It shows just how pathetic our electorate is that they went for a flashy guy with hollow, superficial, and often remarkably dumb rhetoric, just to avoid voting for the competent person they did not find entertaining or likeable.

The country deserves the resulting disaster of an administration. Maybe this is part of the country's growing process, and decades from now, when another idiot runs and appeals to people's worst instincts, everyone will have the sense to remember the enormous mistake made in who won in 2016.
Click to expand...

yeah about that.
 
#143
#143
#148
#148
Afghanistan is nation-building--it is a medieval country about 150 years behind the West--and trying to keep radicals (the Taliban and others), many of whom live in remote mountainous regions around the country-- from using it as a huge base for terrorism. It's not a "war" at all in the conventional sense, and the only way to win it is to help the country develop a stable government and stable army capable of dealing with various threats. But that is problematic because there are elements in other countries--Pakistan, Iran, Russia--that don't necessarily want a stable Afghanistan. Thus the only strategy is long-term stablization--and by long term I'm talking 30+ years.
 
#149
#149
armchair said:
But that is problematic because there are elements in other countries--Pakistan, Iran, Russia--that don't necessarily want a stable Afghanistan.
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Quite the contrary. They need a stable Afghanistan more than the US and Western interests. The divide and conquer theme is what has controlled the Middle East over the last 100 or so years and it has kept disunity and chaos in the region while the Western interests have been able to pillage the region.
 
#150
#150
Rasputin_Vol said:
Quite the contrary. They need a stable Afghanistan more than the US and Western interests. The divide and conquer theme is what has controlled the Middle East over the last 100 or so years and it has kept disunity and chaos in the region while the Western interests have been able to pillage the region.
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If Pakistan had gotten control of their Pakistani Taliban problem and the Russians not send Chekiens to help the Taliban we would have left and withdrawn 6 years ago.
 
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