How long before this final four gets vacated from Cal?

#57
#57
dukes_of_maggard said:
no doubt - if we lose it will be "you can't win with Freshman" if we win it will be "well, it will be vacated anyway..."

i'm not a meteorologist but looks like it's raining butthurt
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How else do you expect anyone to view your program and coach from the outside? It's historically the dirtiest program ever, all the way back to Rupp's first championship teams. And, they have a guy who had two schools placed on probation under his watch.
 
#59
#59
BigPapaCat said:
Dirtiest program ever? Nope.
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You're way too young.

If you're placing UK 2nd behind UCLA, that's a legit argument. I based my decision on the depth of UK's transgressions across multiple decades, bookended my hiring Calipari.
 
#60
#60
Some of the best players on UK's first championship teams were banned by the NBA for what they did at UK, and UK was banned by the NCAA in 1954 (death penalty).
 
#61
#61
Look up the NBA stats of the Most Outstanding Player of the 1951 Tournament.

Yeah, the same '51 title that sits on the back of a t-shirt that can be found in the crowd at any UK game today.
 
#63
#63
Yeah, it was all Sutton's fault. Had nothing to do with the culture that was in place when he got there.
 
#64
#64
And trust me, I know all about the fifties. Point shaving was all over basketball at the time. CCNY was killed as well. That decade is arguably one of the worst ones when scandals are discussed.
 
#67
#67
Please tell me you're not trying to spin it as if there's nothing but point shaving in the '50s and then Sutton. It's ridiculous to pin it all on Sutton as if they suddenly started buying guys when he became coach.

1970s and 1980s.

I'll look up the findings of the Lexington newspaper from the early '80s.
 
#69
#69
Im not denying it was only Sutton and the 50s...Just wondering where you want to go with it.

I know all about the "buying players" stuff. Imo, Hall might have done some of that, but Sutton was the one caught with his hand in the cookie jar.
 
#70
#70
1950s (Streit is the Judge in the case)

"Streit labeled the University of Kentucky athletic program as "the acme of commercialism and overemphasis" and blamed Rupp for creating an atmosphere not conducive to the well-being of the student athlete. Streit claimed Rupp "failed in his duty to observe the amateur rules, to build character, and to protect the morals and health of his charges."

Included in the 63-page finding from Streit were such conclusions as "I found that intercollegiate basketball and football at Kentucky have become highly systematized, professionalized and commercialized enterprises. I found covert subsidization of players, ruthless exploitation of athletes, cribbing at examinations, 'illegal' recruiting, a reckless disregard of their physical welfare, matriculation of unqualified students, demoralization of the athletes by the coach...".

Streit singled out Kentucky coach Adolph Rupp who he linked with local Lexington gambler Ed Curd. According to Streit's address "[Alex] Groza said that Mr. Rupp used to show the players slips showing the number of points by which they were favored in every game....

"[Dale] Barnstable testified that in the Sugar Bowl game with St. Louis in January of '49 he missed a shot, following which Rupp came back and gave me the devil and said that shot I missed just cost his friend, Burgess Carey, $500.

"[Ralph] Beard said he remembers the occasion in Cincinnati when Rupp came into the (hotel) room and said, 'I just called Kurd and got the points. We are favored by 15. Now these guys will be tough, so let's pour it on.'" (Associated Press, April 30, 1952)."

Schedule for 1952-53
 
#71
#71
BigPapaCat said:
Im not denying it was only Sutton and the 50s...Just wondering where you want to go with it.

I know all about the "buying players" stuff. Imo, Hall might have done some of that, but Sutton was the one caught with his hand in the cookie jar.
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LOL.
So, you just hate Sutton for being the one whose program got caught.

That's like us hating Aaron Craft for turning in Bruce Pearl.
 
#73
#73
+/- 25 posts from UK fans wondering why UT fans (on a UT website) would think their scumbag coach is a scumbag
 
#74
#74
ukvols said:
LOL.
So, you just hate Sutton for being the one whose program got caught.

That's like us hating Aaron Craft for turning in Bruce Pearl.
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I dont hate Sutton. I think tons of people cheat. I think UK has cheated many times without getting caught, but not recently. I think cheating is all over the NCAA right now and always has been. I also think there is more scrutinty placed on schools like UNC, UK, UCLA, etc because they are in the spotlight so much. I gaurentee that schools in D-2 are filled with cheaters for decades, but wont get caught b/c the publicity just isnt there.

My whole point was that while Hall and others may have cheated, Sutton was the only caught at the time.
 
#75
#75
Not just point shaving according to the Judge; also illegal recruiting.

As for the 1980s, the quickest unbiased source I could find in a pinch was this blip from the NY Times, from October of 1985.

"Some former Kentucky basketball players say they sold complimentary tickets at inflated prices to boosters and received cash and other improper gifts from supporters, according to a report published today. The Lexington Herald-Leader reported in today'ss editions that players received up to $1,000 each for the tickets and that some found $50 to $100 in their palms after shaking hands with supporters."

KENTUCKY PAID PLAYERS, REPORT SAYS - NYTimes.com

Sutton had not even coached his first game at UK when those stories came out in the Lexington paper. That's proof that this goes back to Hall.
 
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