How many games does Butch have to win in 2013 to keep the recruiting class together?

#27
#27
I think it matters more that we're not a train wreck like we seem to have been recently. The kids need to see what Butch has been selling them on, so other schools can't come in and steal from us. With that said 6 or 7 wins goes a long way toward that end, but it's not a magic number.
 
#28
#28
If we break even and get in a bowl the verbal commitments will ink and we will see an outstanding class. No matter how good the sizzle is...there has to be some meat on the steak. Tenn boys will stay put I would assume but many of the recruits from a distance will be wooed away by others if we don't go bowling. Surest sign of progression that can't be negatively recruited against.
 
#29
#29
Someone asked Hurd that, and he said it didn't matter at all.

Basically his quote was something to the point of " If they win games, great. If they don't , that's great too because we will just turn it around, and start something special next year"
 
#30
#30
Comparing our situation to the one at USC is apples and oranges. These kids know they are not commiting to a preseason #1. They know there is work to be done. I think they will want to see improvement in attitude and scheme more than they will look at wins and losses. Just my two cents. Obviously I don't know any of them personally, but that seems to be a theme in interviews.
 
#31
#31
I think a bowl game would help but these guys are committing more for the whole "brick by brick" idea of rebuilding the program.
 
#32
#32
VonVol said:
Comparing our situation to the one at USC is apples and oranges. These kids know they are not commiting to a preseason #1. They know there is work to be done. I think they will want to see improvement in attitude and scheme more than they will look at wins and losses. Just my two cents. Obviously I don't know any of them personally, but that seems to be a theme in interviews.
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This quote by Hurd gave me chills... this group of young men are amazing.. they are like our own Tennessee super hero team.. they are doing what they can to prepare the day they get here, but when that day comes.. watch out cause they are going to destroy anything that stands in their way... I am soo pumped for this season.. and next years recruiting class... I mean just think... we are number 1 with Hurd and TK3 all still 4 stars.. after this year what happens when they bump up a star and are still Committed to the number 1 class.. no one is catching us
 
#33
#33
Yes, most of the recruits have bought into Butch and the way forward. Most want to be the class that turned UT's prospects to move back to the days of glory. I think we need 6 to 8 wins, and 8 would be remarkable. Though I want more, I'd settle for a 6 - 6 with a bowl win. Got to have a winning season at least at 7 - 5.
 
#34
#34
Aesius said:
I think the class of 2014 sees themselves as a completely new era at UT. Doesn't matter what the classes of 2010, 2011, 2012, and 2013 do on the field this year.

And if we sign a full class and everyone makes it in, the 2014 class will make up more than 1/3 of the roster.
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I think this is a true statement. Anytime there is a coaching change, the players fall into two camps, the new coaches recruits, and the old coaches recruits.because the old coaches recruits were brought into service a specific system, they can be seen as dead weight in the new coaches system. Esp
ecially if they did poorly. That isn't to say that the new coach can't tap the hidden talent that the previous coaches missed. But in reality, I am sure the new recruits see themselves as a new breed.
 
#35
#35
What is the over/under on how many days go by before somebody starts another "how many games does CBJ have to win next year to .................?" thread? Please people give it a rest.
 
#36
#36
vollygirl said:
I don't think there's a magic number. I think it's more about progression, and players being better than they were last year.
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I don't either. (Short of just really throwing out a 2 or 3 win season)

Some recruits will stick no matter what. Some may get swayed other directions if UT falls on their face and Jones loses his team.

While I see it being minimal if they slip up and look bad, he can gain more than he can lose with a good showing and clear progression.
 
#39
#39
BeecherVol said:
I don't either. (Short of just really throwing out a 2 or 3 win season)

Some recruits will stick no matter what. Some may get swayed other directions if UT falls on their face and Jones loses his team.

While I see it being minimal if they slip up and look bad, he can gain more than he can lose with a good showing and clear progression.
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True that, the key to the bamer turnaround was keeping the best in state players home. :yes:
 
#40
#40
99gator said:
Doesnt matter.

Kids are not commiting based on this year's results
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Yep everyone of these commits have bought into the brick by brick rebuilding theme. Now if Butch come s out and drops a turd of a season (less than 5 wins) it will affect a few recruits and maybe how we finish, but for the most part these kids are here to get us back to the top (and some early playing time) and the staff is clear about that with them.
 
#41
#41
99gator said:
Doesnt matter.

Kids are not commiting based on this year's results
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I agree in part, and disagree in part. I don't think the recruits are going into their commitments thinking, "Well, if they don't go to a bowl game, I'm not going to that school."

However, in that same token, there's probably an idea of, I'm committed 100% to "what I've been told." If this team and these coaches go out there and lost 8 or 9 games, it wouldn't surprise me in the least to see some guys start to take serious looks elsewhere. I don't think this would happen with the in-state guys, as Tennessee is more than just a sales pitch to them, but the guys out of state who committed more to the coaching staff than the school, I wouldn't be shocked if they started fielding some other offers.

Now, to cover all bases, I think the scenario I outlined is HIGHLY unlikely, but it's a little ridiculous to say that Tennessee's not been recruiting well the few years pre-Butch, aka the Dooley era, because of our performance on the field. That would be like saying Alabama recruiting well has nothing to do with them winning national championships. It's just not true.

To answer the OP's question, I think if he wins 5 games, but comes REALLY close to Fla/Oregon/Georgia and hangs with Bama for at least 3 quarters, this class stays together. In that same regard, if we get blown out by 3 of Fla/Oregon/Georgia/Bama, he is going to need 6 wins (including bowl game appearance) in my opinion. I think someone mentioned it earlier in this thread, but the biggest thing that will keep kids around is a sense of progress. W/L record means absolutely nothing in a rebuilding phase. If this team beats who they're SUPPOSED to beat and hangs with a big team or two, we will be gaining momentum, Ole Miss last year style.
 
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#42
#42
tenmanjonez said:
I agree in part, and disagree in part. I don't think the recruits are going into their commitments thinking, "Well, if they don't go to a bowl game, I'm not going to that school."

However, in that same token, there's probably an idea of, I'm committed 100% to "what I've been told." If this team and these coaches go out there and lost 8 or 9 games, it wouldn't surprise me in the least to see some guys start to take serious looks elsewhere. I don't think this would happen with the in-state guys, as Tennessee is more than just a sales pitch to them, but the guys out of state who committed more to the coaching staff than the school, I wouldn't be shocked if they started fielding some other offers.

Now, to cover all bases, I think the scenario I outlined is HIGHLY unlikely, but it's a little ridiculous to say that Tennessee's not been recruiting well the few years pre-Butch, aka the Dooley era, because of our performance on the field. That would be like saying Alabama recruiting well has nothing to do with them winning national championships. It's just not true.

To answer the OP's question, I think if he wins 5 games, but comes REALLY close to Fla/Oregon/Georgia and hangs with Bama for at least 3 quarters, this class stays together. In that same regard, if we get blown out by 3 of Fla/Oregon/Georgia/Bama, he is going to need 6 wins (including bowl game appearance) in my opinion. I think someone mentioned it earlier in this thread, but the biggest thing that will keep kids around is a sense of progress. W/L record means absolutely nothing in a rebuilding phase. If this team beats who they're SUPPOSED to beat and hangs with a big team or two, we will be gaining momentum, Ole Miss last year style.
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Exactly. I was typing up a similiar response but decided to endorse yours.
 
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#43
#43
I don't understand.....We all agree that Dooley is a bad or arguably mediocre coach.

If Dooley went 6-6 in regular season his first year, and Butch is such a great coach. Why are we saying 5 or 6 games. Dooley could and did that.


And don't give me that, "Dooley had more talent his first year", it's been proven that Butch has the same if not better talent then Dooley his first year.
 
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#44
#44
It helps that Butch is selling them on they will be the guys that rebuilds UT, that put us back where we belong. The recruits understand that this season may not be great. As long as improvement is shown and Butch shows he has what it takes, most will stick. There are always a couple that can be swayed, I say almost all we have now are solid, a 6-6 year would probably solidify them all.
 
#45
#45
I honestly think most would buy the argument that it is "Dooley's fault" for a year. I would say 5 or 6 for most of the recruits would be something they could overlook as long as fans and media don't blame Jones too loudly.
 
#48
#48
Vol4life25 said:
I don't understand.....We all agree that Dooley is a bad or arguably mediocre coach.

If Dooley went 6-6 in regular season his first year, and Butch is such a great coach. Why are we saying 5 or 6 games. Dooley could and did that.


And don't give me that, "Dooley had more talent his first year", it's been proven that Butch has the same if not better talent then Dooley his first year.
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No it hasn't been proven. The Dooley supporters just say that. Inherited talent was in Dooley's favor.
 
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#49
#49
k-town_king said:
No it hasn't been proven. The Dooley supporters just say that. Inherited talent was in Dooley's favor.
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I'd say they were about the same. Looking at players that weren't freshmen Dooley's first year, he has the advantage in the secondary, but Butch has inherited more pure talent in the LB corp and more sheer talent on the O-Line (not even a close competition in that regard). Both have QB's that will have a game or 2 in college under their belt (major college), and a d-line with lots to prove. I think Poole in theory beats Neal or Lane in this particular area, however his senior year production left much to be desired. Denarius Moore is really the only guy on that team that I can think of right now that was indisputably above average, not including freshmen.

I'd say it's fair to say that both have talent in different areas, but to say that Dooley's incoming talent is FAVORED over Butch's is ridiculous. Butch has depth for years compared to what Dools walked into.

BTW, NOT a Dooley supporter at all, I'm just trying to keep facts as the catalyst for this discussion.
 
#50
#50
Wins are irrelevant. Last year we got spanked and quit trying. The recruits wanna make sure that we aren't quitting at the end of games and the season. That s*** goes for the fanbase too. It's one thing to accept that it might be a bad season now, but when it's October...it's a whole different story.
 
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