How many plumbers does Obama know?

#26
#26
utvolpj said:
You know, there have been plenty of idiotic statements made by both sides but this one hit home



I know plenty Mr. Obama and it's obvious you know very little about what you're taking about. Now I don't know if this Joe guy actually makes that but there are plenty of others doing it with their small business (especially plumbers). A good Roto-Rooter tech could clear 6 figures pretty easily in a larger market. Now imagine the guy who owns his own shop employing more than 3 trucks (which includes most of the companies out there). He's so out of touch it's ridiculous. I can give him some phone numbers if he really wants to correct his thinking.

OK, my rant is over you can all go back to your regularly scheduled threads. :)
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According to Dun and Bradstreet, your rant is misplaced.

Bloomberg.com: Worldwide

"According to an analysis by Dun & Bradstreet on Wurzelbacher's employer, A. W. Newell Corp., the plumbing and heating contractor has annual sales of $510,000.

If Wurzelbacher bought the company, by the time he took proper business deductions, Bankler said, he'd be left with between $150,000 and $200,000 in taxable income and wouldn't be affected by Obama's proposed increase in the top rates."
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But let's assume otherwise - and the economists can tell me how this is wrong. Let's assume Joe did even better - much, much better - and was able to more than double his personal income to a pretty sweet $500K/year (way more than this liberal makes). Under Obama's plan, he'd have to pay $7,500 in additional taxes above what he'd pay today. McCain would cut his taxes by about the same amount. So, let's just assume that he'd be $15K worse off under Obama than McCain after his monumental success.

How many plumbers would he NOT be able to hire b/c of that net $15,000 he'd lose? Also remember that for each job he creates, Obama's plan would give his business a $3,000 credit, so if he hired 5 more workers, he'd actually break even under Obama's plan.

Sounds like Obama is incentivizing Joe to continue to work hard.
 
#27
#27
#29
#29
TennNC said:
According to Dun and Bradstreet, your rant is misplaced.

Bloomberg.com: Worldwide



But let's assume otherwise - and the economists can tell me how this is wrong. Let's assume Joe did even better - much, much better - and was able to more than double his personal income to a pretty sweet $500K/year (way more than this liberal makes). Under Obama's plan, he'd have to pay $7,500 in additional taxes above what he'd pay today. McCain would cut his taxes by about the same amount. So, let's just assume that he'd be $15K worse off under Obama than McCain after his monumental success.

How many plumbers would he NOT be able to hire b/c of that net $15,000 he'd lose? Also remember that for each job he creates, Obama's plan would give his business a $3,000 credit, so if he hired 5 more workers, he'd actually break even under Obama's plan.

Sounds like Obama is incentivizing Joe to continue to work hard.
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Entertaining. He makes 500k and his taxes only increase $7500. Do you really believe that's gonna pay for even one tenth of Obama's spending? The 3k per new worker only makes the problem worse, because there is no offset.

By the way, don't hang your hat on D&B discs. We bought them for years in our M&A shop and used them for basic pitches, but the info was generally off tremendously when we did actual due diligence. Most of that problem was because D&B tries to handle intercomany transactions, like property and equipment leases, but does a horrendous job. Often the parent company makes jillions from their equipment leasin operation and charges big rent plus cost of capital.

But damn, I guess that doesn't support fantasyland ideas about miniscule tax increases on the wealthy or help ignore the huge cap gains hike being omitted here.
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#30
#30
TennNC said:
I know. It's pathetic.

So what do you think Sid McCain or Huss Obama will do about it?
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It is pathetic. Do you not think so? Claiming this guy is not really Joe, as if he is some fraud because his first name is Samuel.

I do not think either should do anything about it, I am not into government solving every problem, you?
 
#31
#31
BigPapaVol said:
By the way, don't hang your hat on D&B discs. We bought them for years in our M&A shop and used them for basic pitches, but the info was generally off tremendously when we did actual due diligence. Most of that problem was because D&B tries to handle intercomany transactions, like property and equipment leases, but does a horrendous job. Often the parent company makes jillions from their equipment leasin operation and charges big rent plus cost of capital.
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I agree and know EXACTLY what you're talking about. When I used Dun and Bradstreet to help offset my maximum derivative venture capital, they forgot to take into account the subsistence line item from my bilateral monopsy. The supply curve ratio was nowhere NEAR as elastic as they speculated, and we all ended up taking massive amounts of default of tangency from their attempt to implement Pareto efficiency.

Bottom line: it was ugly.
 
#33
#33
allvol123 said:
It is pathetic. Do you not think so? Claiming this guy is not really Joe, as if he is some fraud because his first name is Samuel.

I do not think either should do anything about it, I am not into government solving every problem, you?
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I'm with you, man. I mean, why anyone would demean someone for their FREAKING MIDDLE NAME is insane.

I mean, here we go this ENTIRE election and NOBODY tries to pull this stunt on EITHER CANDIDATE, tries to make hay out of one of their middle names and somehow link it to something scary or bad, like muslim terrorists or what have you.

But here comes along plain old hard-working JOE, and all standards go to hell. What happened to my country?
 
#34
#34
utvolpj said:
actually it's right on target concerning Obama's question. He asked it and I could answer. My rant was not all about "Joe" but the ignorance shown by talking about something he no knowledge about.
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PJ - how many plumbers do you know making more than $250,000 in personal income? What % of plumbers (those actually doing the work) do you think that constitutes?

Perhaps I'm in the wrong business.
 
#35
#35
TennNC said:
I agree and know EXACTLY what you're talking about. When I used Dun and Bradstreet to help offset my maximum derivative venture capital, they forgot to take into account the subsistence line item from my bilateral monopsy. The supply curve ratio was nowhere NEAR as elastic as they speculated, and we all ended up taking massive amounts of default of tangency from their attempt to implement Pareto efficiency.

Bottom line: it was ugly.
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no wonder you like Obama, being an economic retard is a common trait between you.

That also helps explain why you're still peddling that mini tax increase lie.

It's probably going to be easier going forward to simply say: I regurgitated some idiotic journalist drivel about which I was too clueless to understand. The author was a partisan moron with a similar grasp of business concepts to Obama and myself.
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#36
#36
If you really think BO is going to tax only those making more than 250 K and implement all these programs that will cost billions you are insane.
 
#37
#37
TennNC said:
I'm with you, man. I mean, why anyone would demean someone for their FREAKING MIDDLE NAME is insane.

I mean, here we go this ENTIRE election and NOBODY tries to pull this stunt on EITHER CANDIDATE, tries to make hay out of one of their middle names and somehow link it to something scary or bad, like muslim terrorists or what have you.

But here comes along plain old hard-working JOE, and all standards go to hell. What happened to my country?
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They weren't trying to demean his middle name, they were trying to insinuate he is a liar, a fraud, he is not who he says he is. They are not trying to link it to something bad or scary, they are trying to say he is not Joe at all. Why? Because someone made Obama look bad, unacceptable.
 
#38
#38
TennNC said:
PJ - how many plumbers do you know making more than $250,000 in personal income? What % of plumbers (those actually doing the work) do you think that constitutes?

Perhaps I'm in the wrong business.
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how many owners of plumbing companies make over $250k? I personally know quite a few and it comes from dealing with them for years. Those smelly guys in dirty clothes can make a great living.

People views "plumbers" as the overweight guy with his head under your sink. That is such a very small part of the overall industry
 
#39
#39
BigPapaVol said:
It's probably going to be easier going forward to simply say: I regurgitated some idiotic journalist drivel about which I was too clueless to understand. The author was a partisan moron with a similar grasp of business concepts to Obama and myself.
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do I need to copyright that line, or is this a gift from you to me?
 
#40
#40
utvolpj said:
People views "plumbers" as the overweight guy with his head under your sink. That is such a very small part of the overall industry
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that guy just works for the guy Joe is trying to be.

Slice it however you want TNC, rhe business owner is about to get shelled, although he miht get to quit providing healthcare. I'm cancelling ours Nov. 5th.
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#41
#41
allvol123 said:
They weren't trying to demean his middle name, they were trying to insinuate he is a liar, a fraud, he is not who he says he is. They are not trying to link it to something bad or scary, they are trying to say he is not Joe at all. Why? Because someone made Obama look bad, unacceptable.
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I KNOW man - I'm totally with you. I mean, here we've gone this entire campaign, and not one person has tried to say either candidate is a liar, or not who they said they were, or that we couldn't trust them. But hell, they'll do it to good 'ole Samuel Joseph. And to have the audacity to try to use his FREAKING MIDDLE NAME as part of that argument.

INSANE.
 
#42
#42
TennNC said:
do I need to copyright that line, or is this a gift from you to me?
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gift. I know you'll need it a lot and probably need to amend it to apply to the range of other discussion topics you enter. Feel free, but I would like a citation for the first couple of weeks.

If you can afford it, you should probably pay per use, that being the patriotic way 'nall.
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#43
#43
TennNC said:
I KNOW man - I'm totally with you. I mean, here we've gone this entire campaign, and not one person has tried to say either candidate is a liar, or not who they said they were, or that we couldn't trust them. But hell, they'll do it to good 'ole Samuel Joseph. And to have the audacity to try to use his FREAKING MIDDLE NAME as part of that argument.

INSANE.
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Wow, you are just too clever. But I do not think anyone has insinuated Barack is not Barack.
 
#44
#44
TennNC said:
I KNOW man - I'm totally with you. I mean, here we've gone this entire campaign, and not one person has tried to say either candidate is a liar, or not who they said they were, or that we couldn't trust them. But hell, they'll do it to good 'ole Samuel Joseph. And to have the audacity to try to use his FREAKING MIDDLE NAME as part of that argument.

INSANE.
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so I understand the silliness, who's using Joe's middle name to imply that he has a soft spot for muslims? Who's using it to say anything at all about Joe?
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#45
#45
utvolpj said:
how many owners of plumbing companies make over $250k? I personally know quite a few and it comes from dealing with them for years. Those smelly guys in dirty clothes can make a great living.

People views "plumbers" as the overweight guy with his head under your sink. That is such a very small part of the overall industry
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When I think of plumber, I think of a person who fixes pipes. What should we think when we hear the word "plumber"? Are most "plumbers" making $250K? Would most "plumbers" get killed if Obama became president?

Average owner of a plumbing business in NYC makes $82K.

owner of plumbing business Salaries in New York, NY - Free Salary Search
 
#46
#46
TennNC said:
When I think of plumber, I think of a person who fixes pipes. What should we think when we hear the word "plumber"? Are most "plumbers" making $250K? Would most "plumbers" get killed if Obama became president?

Average owner of a plumbing business in NYC makes $82K.

owner of plumbing business Salaries in New York, NY - Free Salary Search
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Dead freaking wrong again. He pays himself an 82K salary, likely at the behest of his accountant so he can limit personal income and help his tax situation.. That has nothing to do with the company's earnings or a sister company's income. Not only is the data likely trash, but you're using it incorrectly. Just get out of the business operation threads.
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#48
#48
BigPapaVol said:
gift. I know you'll need it a lot and probably need to amend it to apply to the range of other discussion topics you enter. Feel free, but I would like a citation for the first couple of weeks.

If you can afford it, you should probably pay per use, that being the patriotic way 'nall.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
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I work in advertising. We get schooled in copyright law - I don't want to break the law - or any code of ethics.

BTW, you're right - I thought my mish-mash of economics terms in my previous post could hide the fact that I am such an economic retard. I don't know what I was thinking.

Since I was a wee kid, my father used to take me on Saturday mornings to my favorite spot - the library. and he'd open up the Wall St. Journal, Forbes, the Economist, BusinessWeek, Money, and he and I would spend hours and hours poring over the fun details of the economy. The ins and outs, the players, the ups and downs, the lingo. We made our own playing cards - traders, business owners, analysts - with their stats on the back. Oh, those were innocent times, back when I thought I had a real chance at becoming an economic wonk. But as I started to meet people and have fun in life, I realized I wasn't cut out for that line of work.

thanks to technology, I can simply log onto a website like this and, through osmosis, gain at least a smidge of your knowledge about the subject.
 
#49
#49
TennNC said:
When I think of plumber, I think of a person who fixes pipes. What should we think when we hear the word "plumber"? Are most "plumbers" making $250K? Would most "plumbers" get killed if Obama became president?

Average owner of a plumbing business in NYC makes $82K.

owner of plumbing business Salaries in New York, NY - Free Salary Search
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what kind of plumbing business is that? Seems way low from my experience.

Many of the guys making money are repair/remodel (the owner of the Roto-rooter in Phoenix told me his guys average $60k after 2 yrs) but most have developed a specialty like hospitals, schools, apartments, etc. The commercial plumbers get ignored by most because they aren't seen. Of the 2 wealthiest customers I called on one did only schools and one did only apartments. Based on my sales to them in a year there is very little chance their company made less than $250k. Heck I worked with salesmen pulling down that kind of money (one had only 4 customers). It's a $100bil industry, to think there aren't plenty of people making good money is naive.
 
#50
#50
More hard hitting investigation of "joe" or whoever he claims to be:

HOLLAND, Ohio (AP) — Joe the Plumber's story sprang a few leaks Thursday. Turns out that the man who was held up by John McCain as the typical, hard-working American taxpayer isn't really a licensed plumber. And court documents show he owes nearly $1,200 in back taxes.

"Joe," whose name is Samuel J. Wurzelbacher, was cited repeatedly in Wednesday night's final presidential debate by McCain for questioning Barack Obama's tax policy

The burly, bald man acknowledged he doesn't have a plumber's license, but said he didn't need one because he works for someone else at a company that does residential work.
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The Associated Press: Is 'Joe the Plumber' a plumber? That's debatable

Oh no, not a licensed plumber? Get a gun boys!
Owes back taxes? This man is so unpatriotic!
"Joe". My ass, his name is Samuel, how dare he try to pass himself off as Joe.

Thank you AP! We need to know these things so we are confident Obama was made to look like a fool by a certifiable trickster!
 
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