How much are NY's left wing gun laws to blame for this

#3
#3
NEOCON said:
If just one person in this pharmacy was allowed to conceal carry would this have happened?

2 workers, 2 patrons shot to death at NY pharmacy - US news - msnbc.com

When will you left wingers learn? States that don't allow concealed carry only protect the criminals, not the innocent.
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It's speculation to say that NY having CC would have saved lives. One can't absolutely dismiss however that it might have.

Obviously whatever gun laws there are in NY, which are on the Draconian side, were no deterrent.
 
#4
#4
What deterrent is there to keep guns out of the wrong hands? Lifetime imprisonment? Cut their hands off? Until you get guns off the streets or every law abiding citizen carries, it's not going to matter. And frankly, I know people that carry who worry me more than a criminal would.
 
#5
#5
CC just means that someone is going to try to be a hero and f it all up. Chances of the pharmacy people hitting the gunman? Chances of him getting off the first shot or even getting the gun out?
 
#6
#6
VOLatile said:
CC just means that someone is going to try to be a hero and f it all up. Chances of the pharmacy people hitting the gunman? Chances of him getting off the first shot or even getting the gun out?
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If you complete the CC class, chances are good you will come out the winner.
 
#7
#7
VOLatile said:
CC just means that someone is going to try to be a hero and f it all up. Chances of the pharmacy people hitting the gunman? Chances of him getting off the first shot or even getting the gun out?
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You obviously knee-jerk to the loony left of every issue, but reason through the self selected concealed carry lot.
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#8
#8
My feeling is guns are mostly used for threatening, and are only used when the situation goes south. An internet tough guy trying to take his act to the real world and play hero would only cause more trouble (sweeping generalization, I know, but a lot of CC guys I know act like it's a pair of brass balls they strap on instead of a responsibility).
 
#9
#9
BigPapaVol said:
You obviously knee-jerk to the loony left of every issue, but reason through the self selected concealed carry lot.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
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We sell guns to CC people all of the time at work. Seems like they hand out the permit to anyone. Just because you can shoot well, doesn't mean the next guy can or will under pressure.
 
#10
#10
VOLatile said:
CC just means that someone is going to try to be a hero and f it all up. Chances of the pharmacy people hitting the gunman? Chances of him getting off the first shot or even getting the gun out?
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How often does that happen? Link?
 
#13
#13
KentheOrange said:
The point of CC is that the criminal wouldn't know if any or all customers in the pharmacy were armed.
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Bingo.

The right to carry is not able being a hero. It's about having somewhat of a fighting chance if someone does happen to pull a gun.
 
#14
#14
So you'd prefer the entirety of the public be armed instead of stricter gun laws? Do you dream of the wild west?
 
#15
#15
KiffinKiller said:
So you'd prefer the entirety of the public be armed instead of stricter gun laws? Do you dream of the wild west?
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I would prefer if be harder to obtain a CC (more tests and smarter owners) but I'm not for restricting the ownership just to do it.

a large part of the US pop owns guns and it is not the wild west. Seems the true wild west only exists where people don't care about having legal guns
 
#16
#16
utvolpj said:
I would prefer if be harder to obtain a CC (more tests and smarter owners) but I'm not for restricting the ownership just to do it.

a large part of the US pop owns guns and it is not the wild west. Seems the true wild west only exists where people don't care about having legal guns
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He was talking about everyone having concealed weapons...

Now I'm all for protecting your home from invaders...but having the majority of the general population walk around with concealed weapons isn't my cup of tea.
 
#17
#17
if they have shown they understand the laws and are responsible owners then I don't see the issue. No way to really do what you're suggesting unless you limit the number of licenses available
 
#18
#18
The interesting part is when these scenarios come up it typically ends on CC and not the criminals who care less about the laws to begin with.
 
#19
#19
NEOCON said:
If just one person in this pharmacy was allowed to conceal carry would this have happened?

2 workers, 2 patrons shot to death at NY pharmacy - US news - msnbc.com

When will you left wingers learn? States that don't allow concealed carry only protect the criminals, not the innocent.
Click to expand...


If the one person from whom the robber stole the gun had not been allowed to own the gun would this have happened?

2 workers, 2 patrons shot to death at NY pharmacy - US news - msnbc.com

When will you right wingers learn? States that allow people to own concealed firearms only help the criminals get firearms, not protect the innocent.
 
#20
#20
#21
#21
Have you guys ever heard of Gary Kleck? My buddy just finished a Phd in Criminology at FSU and Kleck was his favorite professor. My friend was anti-gun...until he took Kleck's class. Kleck was anti-gun...until he started doing his own research. He starts off every semester by stating, "I am liberal democrat in every way, except I support the 2nd amendment. I absolutely abhor the idea of gun-toting citizens everywhere, but in practice it works to reduce violent crime. I cannot refute that." He has a course all about gun control. He's pretty cool. Here's an article by him if you are interested.

Guns and Self-Defense by Gary Kleck, Ph.D.
 
#22
#22
lawgator1 said:
If the one person from whom the robber stole the gun had not been allowed to own the gun would this have happened?

2 workers, 2 patrons shot to death at NY pharmacy - US news - msnbc.com

When will you right wingers learn? States that allow people to own concealed firearms only help the criminals get firearms, not protect the innocent.
Click to expand...

The dude would have pulled out a knife and killed everybody. What if the robber stole the knife from your mama? What if she had not been allowed to own the knife would this have happened?
 
#24
#24
NYYVol said:
New level of idiocy. That's pretty impressive, even for you.
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You missed my point.

While it is an established fact that thousands of guns are stolen from private owners every year, and it is an established fact that an enormous majority of gun-related crimes are committed by people who stole or bought a stolen gun, I don't know how this particular fellow got this particular gun. There is a significant chance -- probably much greater than 50-50 -- that he obtained it illegally.

Even though the gun started out being legally owned, it ended up being used in this fashion.

Similarly, necon does not know how things would have ended had someone had their own legally owned gun.

Part of the problem is that gun rights advocates have this movie-induced, wild west, fantasy view of the way these situations develop. They think Dirty Harry or Sylvester Stallone just walks in with his own firearm, says a cute line to the thug, shoots and kills him, and then the hot girl hostage goes home with him to show her appreciation.

Stop living in a fantasy world and recognize the REALITY that private hand gun ownership results in far more crime, and far more death, than it prevents.
 
#25
#25
nbakerld said:
Have you guys ever heard of Gary Kleck? My buddy just finished a Phd in Criminology at FSU and Kleck was his favorite professor. My friend was anti-gun...until he took Kleck's class. Kleck was anti-gun...until he started doing his own research. He starts off every semester by stating, "I am liberal democrat in every way, except I support the 2nd amendment. I absolutely abhor the idea of gun-toting citizens everywhere, but in practice it works to reduce violent crime. I cannot refute that." He has a course all about gun control. He's pretty cool. Here's an article by him if you are interested.

Guns and Self-Defense by Gary Kleck, Ph.D.
Click to expand...


You might research what the scientific community thinks of Kleck before you endorse him.

(Hint: Not much).
 
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