How much are NY's left wing gun laws to blame for this

#26
#26
clearly LG is saying that if no one had guns there would be no crime. Sounds like a solid theory to me
 
#27
#27
lawgator1 said:
If the one person from whom the robber stole the gun had not been allowed to own the gun would this have happened?

2 workers, 2 patrons shot to death at NY pharmacy - US news - msnbc.com

When will you right wingers learn? States that allow people to own concealed firearms only help the criminals get firearms, not protect the innocent.
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This country has an obsession with guns - using this argument will get you no where. Criminals will always find ways to get weapons. In a perfect world, I would agree with you...but over half of this country would have to spontaneously combust before that would happen.
 
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#29
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VOLatile said:
CC just means that someone is going to try to be a hero and f it all up. Chances of the pharmacy people hitting the gunman? Chances of him getting off the first shot or even getting the gun out?
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Not exactly the same thing but I think the point comes across:

Charges expected in Wauconda pharmacy shooting - DailyHerald.com

For those with the "Wild West Syndrome" view it's interesting that several states have essentially no restrictions on handgun carry as anyone that can legally own a handgun can tote it around. You'd think there'd be shootouts daily by people having a bad hair day in those states...but there isn't.
 
#30
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lawgator1 said:
You might research what the scientific community thinks of Kleck before you endorse him.

(Hint: Not much).
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I'll take a guy who obviously doesn't let his politics affect his research over "the scientific community". The same scientific community who's been wrong with their consensus often when it related to the world politically...like the consensus that blacks are inferior to whites, or that we were in danger of an ice age, etc.
 
#31
#31
VolDad said:
Because prohibition works so well.
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Didn't say that.

I think a reasonable solution is to make the law such that, if you own a legal handgun and it gets stolen and is later used in a crime:

1) You can be held civilly liable for the damage caused by use of the gun. This is very similar to laws concerning lending your car to someone. It is a dangerous instrumentality and, because of that, you owe a duty of care to everyone else to make sure that it does not fall into the wrong hands.

2) If the circumstances of the theft and your negligence in allowing it are sufficiently egregious, i.e. you left it in a car, or you did not have it locked away in a gun safe at your residence, then you can also be held criminally liable and face prison terms if someone steals your gun and then uses it to kill or injure someone.

This way, if you want to go buy a hand gun you can. But at the same time, you have a tremendous incentive to keep it either on you at all times and safely so, or locked away where it won't hurt anyone.

Its people who have them in dresser drawers under their socks, or who have them in a glove compartment, that are the problem.
 
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lawgator1 said:
Its people who have them in dresser drawers under their socks, or who have them in a glove compartment, that are the problem.
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you mean besides the people who go steal it right?

I have my shotgun in my closet because trying to get into my gun safe while someone is in my house is a really stupid idea and one that could only be advocated by the left. You bend over and take it while the rest of us will choose to fight back
 
#34
#34
lawgator1 said:
Didn't say that.

I think a reasonable solution is to make the law such that, if you own a legal handgun and it gets stolen and is later used in a crime:

1) You can be held civilly liable for the damage caused by use of the gun. ...
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How would you propose someone prevent their gun from being stolen.
 
#36
#36
VolDad said:
If you were in that pharmecy would you prefer to be unarmed or would you want a gun?
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I would strongly prefer that he not have one.

Since I cannot fix the past, moving forward, I would hope that people would realize that the solution is not to answer criminals having guns with more of us having guns (that the criminals then steal), but instead to say enough is enough and cut off the flow at its source.
 
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utvolpj said:
you mean besides the people who go steal it right?

I have my shotgun in my closet because trying to get into my gun safe while someone is in my house is a really stupid idea and one that could only be advocated by the left. You bend over and take it while the rest of us will choose to fight back
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Shotgun is a little different.

But let's say that was a .32.

If you had it in your closet and someone stole it and then went and shot someone in a pharmacy robbery, I would advocate that the victim (or her family) sue you and recover money damages for your negligence in storing the gun in such a manner that it was easily stolen.
 
#38
#38
lawgator1 said:
I would strongly prefer that he not have one.

Since I cannot fix the past, moving forward, I would hope that people would realize that the solution is not to answer criminals having guns with more of us having guns (that the criminals then steal), but instead to say enough is enough and cut off the flow at its source.
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You didn't answer the question (no surprise there). If you were in the store when it was getting shot up, would you have wanted a gun?
 
#39
#39
lawgator1 said:
I would strongly prefer that he not have one.

Since I cannot fix the past, moving forward, I would hope that people would realize that the solution is not to answer criminals having guns with more of us having guns (that the criminals then steal), but instead to say enough is enough and cut off the flow at its source.
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I am sure the people in the pharmacy would prefer he did not have one but he did. Criminals will always get what they want no mater how many laws you pass (i.e., drugs).

Now anwer the question. He was armed, he started shooting. If you were there would you prefer to be unarmed or armed?
 
#40
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lawgator1 said:
Shotgun is a little different.

But let's say that was a .32.

If you had it in your closet and someone stole it and then went and shot someone in a pharmacy robbery, I would advocate that the victim (or her family) sue you and recover money damages for your negligence in storing the gun in such a manner that it was easily stolen.
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shotgun is no different and in a situation like a home invasion is much more effective. Looks like your gun knowledge is on par with your Twitter expertise

the rest of your post is absolutely ridiculous, stupid and scary.
 
#41
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VolDad said:
How would you propose someone prevent their gun from being stolen.
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There are a lot of things they can do:

1) Never leave it unattended in a car.
2) Never leave it unattended and not locked up in a home.
3) Always carry it with you. If you are going somewhere that you know that is not appropriate, then either don't go or before going lock it in a gun safe.

None of that is fool proof. But my gosh we've got TSA employees being detained at airports because they forgot they had a gun in their carry on luggage. We've got teachers who forget they have a gun in their cars in the school parking lot. I just cannot understand people who would be so irresponsible with something whose sole purpose is to shoot and hurt or kill another person.
 
#42
#42
lawgator1 said:
Shotgun is a little different.

But let's say that was a .32.

If you had it in your closet and someone stole it and then went and shot someone in a pharmacy robbery, I would advocate that the victim (or her family) sue you and recover money damages for your negligence in storing the gun in such a manner that it was easily stolen.
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Well duh, you are a lawyer. Normal people would recognize that your home is generally a secure place from theft and that the party was behaving responsibly.
 
#43
#43
lawgator1 said:
Shotgun is a little different.

But let's say that was a .32.

If you had it in your closet and someone stole it and then went and shot someone in a pharmacy robbery, I would advocate that the victim (or her family) sue you and recover money damages for your negligence in storing the gun in such a manner that it was easily stolen.
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Do you think that Perez Puentes would have waited for his intended victim to retrive her gun from a safe if she asked nicely?

Police ID slain home invasion suspect | ajc.com
 
#44
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nbakerld said:
You didn't answer the question (no surprise there). If you were in the store when it was getting shot up, would you have wanted a gun?
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VolDad said:
I am sure the people in the pharmacy would prefer he did not have one but he did. Criminals will always get what they want no mater how many laws you pass (i.e., drugs).

Now anwer the question. He was armed, he started shooting. If you were there would you prefer to be unarmed or armed?
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I would want a gun.

But, if it were my gun that was stolen and was the one being used by the criminal, I would expect to be held accountable.

If my son or daughter was killed during such a robbery, and it could be determined where the gun started and was reported stolen, I'd sue the original owner for every cent they had, then donate it to charity.
 
#45
#45
nbakerld said:
Well duh, you are a lawyer. Normal people would recognize that your home is generally a secure place from theft and that the party was behaving responsibly.
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Honestly, I don't think I've ever read a more retarded comment in my entire life.
 
#46
#46
utvolpj said:
if they have shown they understand the laws and are responsible owners then I don't see the issue. No way to really do what you're suggesting unless you limit the number of licenses available
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I'm in this boat. I see no issue with concealed carry as long as there is a background check and the process to get one is like getting a driver's license (but less of a joke) with a written test about the laws and some sort of certificate from a range and an instructor.
 
#47
#47
lawgator1 said:
I would want a gun.

But, if it were my gun that was stolen and was the one being used by the criminal, I would expect to be held accountable.

If my son or daughter was killed during such a robbery, and it could be determined where the gun started and was reported stolen, I'd sue the original owner for every cent they had, then donate it to charity.
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If your car is stolen and someone uses it for a crime; are you advocating that the original owner should be held accountable?
 
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#48
#48
milohimself said:
I'm in this boat. I see no issue with concealed carry as long as there is a background check and the process to get one is like getting a driver's license (but less of a joke) with a written test about the laws and some sort of certificate from a range and an instructor.
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What about holding you liable if the gun is stolen and used in a crime?

That would give the purchaser a lot of pause before taking on the responsibility. And what's wrong with placing the responsibility on the original purchaser?

The purchaser is the one deciding to put the gun into private hands and who is accepting the risk that it will be stolen.
 
#49
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lawgator1 said:
Honestly, I don't think I've ever read a more retarded comment in my entire life.
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Mods! Time to grow up. I think you are big enough boy now.

So if a baseball bat is stolen from my house and your kid gets beat to death with it, are you coming for me? What about a kitchen knife? What about a hit and run homicide with my car that was stolen? Where do you draw the line with this nonsense?
 
#50
#50
lawgator1 said:
What about holding you liable if the gun is stolen and used in a crime?

That would give the purchaser a lot of pause before taking on the responsibility. And what's wrong with placing the responsibility on the original purchaser?

The purchaser is the one deciding to put the gun into private hands and who is accepting the risk that it will be stolen.
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VolDad said:
If your car is stolen and someone gets into an accident with it; are you advocating that the original owner should be held accountable?
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.

What if somebody remote hacks my computer while I'm away for the day and uses it to hack servers at some bank? Does that make me responsible?
 
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