How much are NY's left wing gun laws to blame for this

#52
#52
VolDad said:
If your car is stolen and someone gets into an accident with it; are you advocating that the original owner should be held accountable?
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That's a little bit different since the purpose of a car is not to get into a wreck whereas the only purpose of a hand gun is to shoot someone.

It is generally the law that in some cases if you lend your car to someone and there is an accident then you are responsible. The theory is that you know there is that risk.

If you buy a hand gun and store it in such a manner that it is easily stolen, similarly, it is a fairly well known fact that it is going to end up in a bad place.
 
#53
#53
lawgator1 said:
That's a little bit different since the purpose of a car is not to get into a wreck whereas the only purpose of a hand gun is to shoot someone.

It is generally the law that in some cases if you lend your car to someone and there is an accident then you are responsible. The theory is that you know there is that risk.

If you buy a hand gun and store it in such a manner that it is easily stolen, similarly, it is a fairly well known fact that it is going to end up in a bad place.
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My gun's purpose is to protect me. A gun can serve its purpose without ever being fired.
 
#54
#54
lawgator1 said:
That's a little bit different since the purpose of a car is not to get into a wreck whereas the only purpose of a hand gun is to shoot someone.

It is generally the law that in some cases if you lend your car to someone and there is an accident then you are responsible. The theory is that you know there is that risk.

If you buy a hand gun and store it in such a manner that it is easily stolen, similarly, it is a fairly well known fact that it is going to end up in a bad place.
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\/

VolDad said:
Do you think that Perez Puentes would have waited for his intended victim to retrive her gun from a safe if she asked nicely?

Police ID slain home invasion suspect | ajc.com
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#55
#55
lawgator1 said:
That's a little bit different since the purpose of a car is not to get into a wreck whereas the only purpose of a hand gun is to shoot someone.
It is generally the law that in some cases if you lend your car to someone and there is an accident then you are responsible. The theory is that you know there is that risk.

If you buy a hand gun and store it in such a manner that it is easily stolen, similarly, it is a fairly well known fact that it is going to end up in a bad place.
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I suspect that over 80% of all handgun firings do not invole anyone being shot.
 
#56
#56
droski said:
what's your evidence that the majority of stolen guns come from individuals?
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Hand guns?

You think that the number of stolen hand guns is greater from gun store or manufacturer robberies than from individuals (I would include individuals getting them and then reselling in a fashion so irresponsible it might as well be a robbery)?
 
#57
#57
VolDad said:
I suspect that over 80% of all handgun firings do not invole anyone being shot.
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You are referring I would assume to going to target practice so as to practice and be prepared to shoot someone?

Come on. Please tell me you are not going down the road that people frequently use handguns to hunt. That's just ridiculous.
 
#58
#58
lawgator1 said:
You are referring I would assume to going to target practice so as to practice and be prepared to shoot someone?

Come on. Please tell me you are not going down the road that people frequently use handguns to hunt. That's just ridiculous.
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You keep skipping this \/

VolDad said:
Do you think that Perez Puentes would have waited for his intended victim to retrive her gun from a safe if she asked nicely?

Police ID slain home invasion suspect | ajc.com
Click to expand...
 
#59
#59
nbakerld said:
My gun's purpose is to protect me. A gun can serve its purpose without ever being fired.
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A concealed one could only serve that purpose in a situation where you draw it and only threaten to use it. When would you do that if someone hadn't already drawn theirs and was firing?

If some thug comes into a 7-11 and says everyone get on the floor and he's robbing the cashier, are you going to reach for your gun and pull it and then threaten the guy?

And your argument is that your gun is thereby reducing the chances of someone being hurt or killed?
 
#61
#61
milohimself said:
I'm in this boat. I see no issue with concealed carry as long as there is a background check and the process to get one is like getting a driver's license (but less of a joke) with a written test about the laws and some sort of certificate from a range and an instructor.
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Add a required psychological evaluation and I'm in. I don't trust half of you cowboys.
 
#62
#62
lawgator1 said:
Hand guns?

You think that the number of stolen hand guns is greater from gun store or manufacturer robberies than from individuals (I would include individuals getting them and then reselling in a fashion so irresponsible it might as well be a robbery)?
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i'm just saying taht the number of guns being stolen from individuals per year can't be high enough to support criminal enterprises. i believe there is already a law in the books that if you sold or gave someone a gun who you could reasonably assume that they'd use it in a criminal act that you are liable.
 
#64
#64
droski said:
i'm just saying taht the number of guns being stolen from individuals per year can't be high enough to support criminal enterprises. i believe there is already a law in the books that if you sold or gave someone a gun who you could reasonably assume that they'd use it in a criminal act that you are liable.
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I believe you're correct.

Criminals will always find way to get weapons - I still don't think everyone should be allowed a concealable firearm - most of this country can't even drink responsibly - let alone carry a gun.
 
#65
#65
KiffinKiller said:
I believe you're correct.

Criminals will always find way to get weapons - I still don't think everyone should be allowed a concealable firearm - most of this country can't even drink responsibly - let alone carry a gun.
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i'd agree.
 
#67
#67
droski said:
i'm just saying taht the number of guns being stolen from individuals per year can't be high enough to support criminal enterprises. i believe there is already a law in the books that if you sold or gave someone a gun who you could reasonably assume that they'd use it in a criminal act that you are liable.
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Actually, lawsuits founded on that theory have failed. If there is such a law in your area, it is probably laden with some built-in insurmountable hurdles.

And actually

Approximately 37,500 gun sales, including 17,800 handgun sales, are completed every day in the United States. The increasing number of gun owners has elevated the danger of guns being acquired illegally through robberies and burglaries. In 1994, more than a quarter-million households experienced the theft of one or more firearms; nearly 600,000 guns were stolen during these burglaries.


That is from the US Department of Justice. If you'd like to learn more: Section I: Gun Violence in the United States

At any rate, 600,000 guns are stolen every year. That's a lot. And while the number of gun homicides has slowly been going down in this country, it has gone up dramatically among young people. The number of teenagers killed by hand guns is more than ALL natural causes, COMBINED.

Sorry, but something is not right.
 
#68
#68
lawgator1 said:
A concealed one could only serve that purpose in a situation where you draw it and only threaten to use it. When would you do that if someone hadn't already drawn theirs and was firing?

If some thug comes into a 7-11 and says everyone get on the floor and he's robbing the cashier, are you going to reach for your gun and pull it and then threaten the guy?

And your argument is that your gun is thereby reducing the chances of someone being hurt or killed?
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I actually don't carry a concealed weapon. I have a glock at my house and I brandish it when something funny is going on outside. Like last week at 11:30 pm when somebody thunderously banged on my door. I don't know what it's about, but my gun gives me the courage to check it out (turns out it was some kid pranking me. Tied my door shut). I didn't have to fire it, but I knew I was safer for having it, if it came to that.
 
#71
#71
lawgator1 said:
You might research what the scientific community thinks of Kleck before you endorse him.

(Hint: Not much).
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I can only hope you aren't referring to the likes of David Hemenway of Harvard's Injury Control Research Center. His unambiguous ties to CPHV (Center to Prevent Handgun Violence) and HCI (Handgun Control Incorporated) shade him (and many others like him) strongly to the idealogue side of the equation. (Imagine the East German judge scoring a US skater in the Cold War and you get the idea)

Heck, the lowest estimates I know of rely on the National Crime Victimization Surveys and even THEY put the number of defensive gun uses at between 50K and 80K. (and actually that source has recently reported over 100K)

If you want to read something that specifically tries to address the chasm between the tow sides of this issue you could peruse this when you get a minute.

Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology
 
#72
#72
KiffinKiller said:
Really? That's a reach. It's primary use is to kill, yes. Humans? Not specifically, but kill nonetheless.
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what % of rounds fired are with the intent of killing anything?

why should I be held liable for someone perverting the use of my firearm?
 
#74
#74
utvolpj said:
what % of rounds fired are with the intent of killing anything?

why should I be held liable for someone perverting the use of my firearm?
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I'm not advocating what LG was suggesting. I was merely pointing out that comparing the use of a stolen vehicle and stolen firearm isn't really viable.
 
#75
#75
I'm surprised no one's brought Operation Fast and Furious. Why worry about what happens to legally purchased and owned weapons when our government is flooding the criminal underworld with guns?
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