How this season changed my mind on a 12 team playoff

[Boone&Crockett]

And when you say “not many,” you mean zero.

Acurate

 

[CR-vol]

@luthervol - this is not the NFL. There are never more than about 3 really good college teams any given year. Bad game is a bad game. So far Georgia, TCU and Michigan don't have any bad games. Why water down the playoff with a bunch of undeserving teams with 2 and 3 losses? 12 team playoff is pure greed there's no good reason for it.

 

[DrTNT]

This season…….just like basically every other season (once you get to the end) simply proves……you DONT need 12 teams.

4 is definitely enough.

Literally not ONE single team outside of the current top 4 has any real argument to be in the playoff. If USC were to lose someone who has NO business whatsoever in the playoff will be in the playoff.

There is absolutely NO need for the 12 team playoff it’s literally absurd.

OSU just got rolled at home……should they get rewarded with a playoff spot? And Michigan was without their best player.

Tennessee just got absolutely throttled by SC.

Bama has 2 losses, one to Tennessee (who doesn’t belong) another to LSU who just got beat again……and Bama didn’t really beat anyone.

P-ST played 2 good teams……and lost both times.

Washington got beat by a 3-9 team and have another loss.

Clemson has no good wins and lost twice to 8-4 teams

LSU has 3 losses and 1 was to a 5-7 team

Tulane lost to UCF and Southern Miss a 6-6 mid team.

Literally ONLY the current top 4 belong.

Playoffs and tournaments are amazing. However for college football…….I think it will become a show. Not to mention when terrible teams find one win in the season during their championship and beat a good team……..BAM their in.

Disagree, just because a team has one off day doesn’t mean they aren’t good. The thing is when you take things like strength of schedule, conference, etc. into consideration, the it balances out the record when you have Michigan and Ohio St. playing high school teams in that pathetic excuse of a conference. I would put our current starting lineup (yes, even sans Hooker) against either of them right now. That is exactly why 12 teams are needed to eliminate the BS of an undefeated or even a 1 loss Michigan, OSU, ND, USC, TCU etc. when you don’t play anybody it’s much easier to have a lab undefeated schedule. Good teams have hiccups don’t make them any less good teams.

I know it’s the nfl, but as an example, two 6 seeds have won the Super Bowl, six 5 seeds have won the Super Bowl, & that was prior to them adding a 7th seed on each side which it is only a matter of time until the first 7th seed to win it. Point is in their 12 team format, some of the lower ranked teams wound up winning the whole thing. So I believe there is a good argument for 12 teams. Let’s make absolutely sure the top 4 teams truly deserve to be there by making them play against some real competition.

 

[JoAllan]

And when you say “not many,” you mean zero.

There will be a 12 team playoff

Tulane lost to a 6-6 Southern Miss
Washington lost to a 3-9 team
FL ST has 3 loses

All would get in (as of now assuming TCU and USC wins)

 

[youcancallmeAl]

Not for the reason you may be thinking.

How some of these voters vote is pure insanity. I get that the CFP committee doesn’t have Lou Holtz and that Midwest troll that had us ranked behind LSU the day after we spanked them in Death Valley. But just watching this weekly, I don’t trust human beings to pick the 4 best teams to play for the title.

Yes. I know they are going to pick the 12 best teams in our next version of the playoffs. The difference is the teams that are left out of those playoffs most likely have 3 losses or more. That’s on them!

Point is, because our Vols have been so active in the polls this year, I’ve seen with fresh eyes just how ridiculous some of these voters and committee members can be. Let the kids decide it on the field. I’m all in for a 12 team playoff.

There aren't 12 teams who could possibly win the nattie. That's the argument against it. On the other hand, there are probably more than 4, an aboslute maximum of 8.

 

[Vol8188]

There aren't 12 teams who could possibly win the nattie. That's the argument against it. On the other hand, there are probably more than 4, an aboslute maximum of 8.

Highly doubt there’s more than 4. And there’s less than four deserving

 

[JoAllan]

Disagree, just because a team has one off day doesn’t mean they aren’t good. The thing is when you take things like strength of schedule, conference, etc. into consideration, the it balances out the record when you have Michigan and Ohio St. playing high school teams in that pathetic excuse of a conference. I would put our current starting lineup (yes, even sans Hooker) against either of them right now. That is exactly why 12 teams are needed to eliminate the BS of an undefeated or even a 1 loss Michigan, OSU, ND, USC, TCU etc. when you don’t play anybody it’s much easier to have a lab undefeated schedule. Good teams have hiccups don’t make them any less good teams.

I know it’s the nfl, but as an example, two 6 seeds have won the Super Bowl, six 5 seeds have won the Super Bowl, & that was prior to them adding a 7th seed on each side which it is only a matter of time until the first 7th seed to win it. Point is in their 12 team format, some of the lower ranked teams wound up winning the whole thing. So I believe there is a good argument for 12 teams. Let’s make absolutely sure the top 4 teams truly deserve to be there by making them play against some real competition.

Which teams are we talking about that had ONE off day?

12 team playoff would be (as of now if everything played out how we expect)

Georgia
Michigan
TCU
USC

OSU
Bama
Tennessee
P-ST
Clemson
Washington
FSU
Tulane

OSU yes one bad day - at home lost badly and Michigan was without their best player

Bama lost twice…..maybe 2 off days? Their best win is Mississippi ST

Tennessee definitely had 2 off days. They were not competitive in the Georgia game. SC beat them by 4 scores

P-ST played 2 good teams…….lost them both

Clemson lost twice to 8-4 teams

Washington lost, and lost again to a 3-9 team

FSU lost 3 times (3 off days) and their only good win is LSU

Tulane lost then lost to a 6-6 Southern Miss team

How much of that screams……playoff? How much of that is “one off day”?

Those are literally part of their seasons, they each had their chance and each couldn’t get it done multiple times except for OSU.

 

[JoAllan]

Heck there “could” be 20 teams that “could” win in……doubt it but we will never know.

We do know each had their opportunity and every one that is 6th or lower failed on multiple occasions.

How many chances should everyone get? 2? 3? More?

Seriously this is college football. Not March Madness or even the NFL playoffs…….they ain’t playing everyone in their conference and everyone in their division twice.

Lots of teams getting 4 cupcakes……at least 3. Then you definitely got 2-3 easy conference games (if your on playoff level) you don’t even have to win one of the real tough ones……..should be harder to get in. Shouldn’t be able to have this many slip ups.

In my opinion.

 

[DrTNT]

Which teams are we talking about that had ONE off day?

12 team playoff would be (as of now if everything played out how we expect)

Georgia
Michigan
TCU
USC

OSU
Bama
Tennessee
P-ST
Clemson
Washington
FSU
Tulane

OSU yes one bad day - at home lost badly and Michigan was without their best player

Bama lost twice…..maybe 2 off days? Their best win is Mississippi ST

Tennessee definitely had 2 off days. They were not competitive in the Georgia game. SC beat them by 4 scores

P-ST played 2 good teams…….lost them both

Clemson lost twice to 8-4 teams

Washington lost, and lost again to a 3-9 team

FSU lost 3 times (3 off days) and their only good win is LSU

Tulane lost then lost to a 6-6 Southern Miss team

How much of that screams……playoff? How much of that is “one off day”?

Those are literally part of their seasons, they each had their chance and each couldn’t get it done multiple times except for OSU.

Since this is a UT board I’ll stick with UT… very few teams have looked competitive against UGA, but loosing by 14 is hardly being blown out. USC definitely an off day as nothing seemed to be going right all day. Even with the UGA loss, without the USC loss UT is definitely sitting in the number 4 spot right now so yes… 1 off day made the difference.

& I’m sorry but saying p-st played 2 good teams & lost to them is somewhat argumentative when you consider OSU & Michigan play high school teams all year before meeting each other. That’s my point, you put them in UT’s schedule I’m betting they would sustain 4 or 5 losses each.

 

[VolGee4]

There will be a 12 team playoff

Tulane lost to a 6-6 Southern Miss
Washington lost to a 3-9 team
FL ST has 3 loses

All would get in (as of now assuming TCU and USC wins)

We were discussing 8 teams. BUT…

Tulane wouldn’t be in except for them throwing a bone to a G5 team. They do the same for the NY6 bowls.

Washington improved, and they ended up beating 15 and 16 in the rankings. By the way, that’s better than Penn State, who has no wins over a ranked team.

Florida State is 14th and would currently not be in a 12 team playoff.

Going to 8 or 12 teams eliminates the bias. It also eliminates conferences protecting their teams as much late in the year. It will not diminish the regular season all that much; just shift it to teams ranked 7-15. If we had lost to Vandy, we would have been out.

Also, if there were a 12 team playoff, these championship games would mean much more. LSU at 11, Utah at 12, Kansas State at 13, Clemson at 9 would all be wanting wins badly. As it is now, most are meaningless, except for USC and maybe TCU.

 

[DrTNT]

Heck there “could” be 20 teams that “could” win in……doubt it but we will never know.

We do know each had their opportunity and every one that is 6th or lower failed on multiple occasions.

How many chances should everyone get? 2? 3? More?

Seriously this is college football. Not March Madness or even the NFL playoffs…….they ain’t playing everyone in their conference and everyone in their division twice.

Lots of teams getting 4 cupcakes……at least 3. Then you definitely got 2-3 easy conference games (if your on playoff level) you don’t even have to win one of the real tough ones……..should be harder to get in. Shouldn’t be able to have this many slip ups.

In my opinion.

yes but there are extreme differences in strength of schedule… so just going based on win/loss records is extremely fallible in determining who the best overall team is

 

[Vol4life2]

This says it perfectly. The playoffs are a cash cow that will result in a ton of blowouts in bland neutral sites leading to the only 2-3 teams that ever have a chance to win each year anyway.

Another potential issue will be kids who will be entering the draft now being asked to play another 3-4 games after the season is over. At what point will the opt-outs start happening?

An awful idea being pushed for the only reason that motivates any change in pro or college sports - money. But this one has the potential to be a complete disaster.

If you guys where in charge we would still have rotary phones.

 

[VolGee4]

yes but there are extreme differences in strength of schedule… so just going based on win/loss records is extremely fallible in determining who the best overall team is

No doubt.

 

[JoAllan]

Since this is a UT board I’ll stick with UT… very few teams have looked competitive against UGA, but loosing by 14 is hardly being blown out. USC definitely an off day as nothing seemed to be going right all day. Even with the UGA loss, without the USC loss UT is definitely sitting in the number 4 spot right now so yes… 1 off day made the difference.

& I’m sorry but saying p-st played 2 good teams & lost to them is somewhat argumentative when you consider OSU & Michigan play high school teams all year before meeting each other. That’s my point, you put them in UT’s schedule I’m betting they would sustain 4 or 5 losses each.

first point

I never said Tennessee got blown out……never.

I said they weren’t competitive……and they weren’t.

14-3 end of 1
24-6 end of 2
27-6 end of 3
And it stayed that way until 4 minutes left in the game.

I’m sure OSU would sustain a few losses. I think Michigan would sustain one or 2 for sure.

However none of that means anything. Teams play “their” schedule.

this isn’t about being “good.”

Tennessee is definitely good. Tennessee has proven their good. However Tennessee faltered…….more than once. One game horribly bad and the other they simply weren’t even competitive in, although it wasn’t terrible by any means.

it’s on Tennessee to make it……not really the committee to make sure they get in…..Tennessee didn’t do all their part.

 

[s_wall98]

By far the best thread I’ve seen on VN in weeks. Thanks guys!!

 

[JoAllan]

We were discussing 8 teams. BUT…

Tulane wouldn’t be in except for them throwing a bone to a G5 team. They do the same for the NY6 bowls.

Washington improved, and they ended up beating 15 and 16 in the rankings. By the way, that’s better than Penn State, who has no wins over a ranked team.

Florida State is 14th and would currently not be in a 12 team playoff.

Going to 8 or 12 teams eliminates the bias. It also eliminates conferences protecting their teams as much late in the year. It will not diminish the regular season all that much; just shift it to teams ranked 7-15. If we had lost to Vandy, we would have been out.

Also, if there were a 12 team playoff, these championship games would mean much more. LSU at 11, Utah at 12, Kansas State at 13, Clemson at 9 would all be wanting wins badly. As it is now, most are meaningless, except for USC and maybe TCU.

defiantly agree on the later

If it were 12 team LSU wins they in if not they out. Same with K-ST, Purdue, UNC

FSU would be in because I had to make like the games were over (stated if everything went like most expected) if K-ST and Utah lose they would drop and Washington & FSU would take those spots. I mean I would assume Utah would drop 1 spot and K-ST with 4 losses wouldn’t still be up there.

 

[jim pique]

They call it-MONEY.

 

[DrTNT]

first point

I never said Tennessee got blown out……never.

I said they weren’t competitive……and they weren’t.

14-3 end of 1
24-6 end of 2
27-6 end of 3
And it stayed that way until 4 minutes left in the game.

I’m sure OSU would sustain a few losses. I think Michigan would sustain one or 2 for sure.

However none of that means anything. Teams play “their” schedule.

this isn’t about being “good.”

Tennessee is definitely good. Tennessee has proven their good. However Tennessee faltered…….more than once. One game horribly bad and the other they simply weren’t even competitive in, although it wasn’t terrible by any means.

it’s on Tennessee to make it……not really the committee to make sure they get in…..Tennessee didn’t do all their part.

but again, it UT played the OSU/Michigan schedule they’d be undefeated easily and have put up more points than any team ever in college football. So I think having teams that are ranked a little lower (with say the 3rd strength of schedule) in the playoffs will balance out an undefeated team with the 83rd strength of schedule.

 

[VolGee4]

defiantly agree on the later

If it were 12 team LSU wins they in if not they out. Same with K-ST, Purdue, UNC

FSU would be in because I had to make like the games were over (stated if everything went like most expected) if K-ST and Utah lose they would drop and Washington & FSU would take those spots. I mean I would assume Utah would drop 1 spot and K-ST with 4 losses wouldn’t still be up there.

True about Kansas State. The Utah debate would be interesting because they will still have a win over the PAC 12 champion.

 

[JoAllan]

but again, it UT played the OSU/Michigan schedule they’d be undefeated easily and have put up more points than any team ever in college football. So I think having teams that are ranked a little lower (with say the 3rd strength of schedule) in the playoffs will balance out an undefeated team with the 83rd strength of schedule.

You can’t do that……it will simply eat at you.

We can’t live in what we can never know. We can only go by what we do know.

By the way OSU SOS = 34
Michigan SOS = 39
Georgia SOS = 47
TCU SOS = 35
USC SOS = 57

OSU & Michigan’s SOS are both better than Georgia’s.

However I do agree about teams with real high SOS and have done well in a 12 team playoff.

 

[DrTNT]

You can’t do that……it will simply eat at you.

We can’t live in what we can never know. We can only go by what we do know.

By the way OSU SOS = 34
Michigan SOS = 39
Georgia SOS = 47
TCU SOS = 35
USC SOS = 57

OSU & Michigan’s SOS are both better than Georgia’s.

However I do agree about teams with real high SOS and have done well in a 12 team playoff.

From 6 days ago: “According to ESPN's Football Power Index, Ohio State has the No. 55 strength of schedule in the country, while Michigan is at No. 73.”

That makes the point that a 12 team playoff is more suited to give deserving teams a shot. Yes, I pulled a hypothetical “83” out of thin air but it was based on something I read about strength of schedules and football power indexes.

I’m looking forward to seeing how the 12 team playoff plays out and how often those teams that played the tougher strength of schedule during the regular season push their way through the playoffs. Hopefully it’ll encourage the OSU’s & Michigan’s to schedule stronger out of conference opponents…

 

[youcancallmeAl]

Highly doubt there’s more than 4. And there’s less than four deserving

If GA, TCU, and Mich go undefeated, I'll agree with you.

 

[Vol8188]

If GA, TCU, and Mich go undefeated, I'll agree with you.

What’s the other option? If they don’t go undefeated, there’s less than 4

 

[Brave Volunteer]

What are we gonna say when a 9 - 3 team wins the NC under this format?

That they got hot at the right time and there's nothing wrong with that. Happens in the NFL, NBA, and MLB all the time. The idea of a 9-3 team upsetting a 12-0 team is exactly WHY I'm all for playoff expansion! I mean, my god its a way of getting MORE college football! Why would any of us be opposed to that? Also, giving more teams playoff spots = more teams with something to sell to recruits. Which hopefully will help disperse the talent pool a little more evenly across the country instead of it being hoarded by a select few.

 

[GreveHaller]

That they got hot at the right time and there's nothing wrong with that. Happens in the NFL, NBA, and MLB all the time. The idea of a 9-3 team upsetting a 12-0 team is exactly WHY I'm all for playoff expansion! I mean, my god its a way of getting MORE college football! Why would any of us be opposed to that? Also, giving more teams playoff spots = more teams with something to sell to recruits. Which hopefully will help disperse the talent pool a little more evenly across the country instead of it being hoarded by a select few.

Hey look. its the "everybody deserves a trophy" generation is full force. yawn