I am just wondering.....

#51
#51
Titanic said:
I think Phil Fulmer has one of those...did that make him infallible?

If Memphis doesn't collapse worse than we did against Ohio State in 07 he doesn't even have that one. So we collapse against OSU and that proves Bruce's style is a failure(yet Matta is still an idiot in your book), but Memphis folds like a card table against Kansas and somehow that validates Self as a coach and doesn't tarnish your view of the cheating scumbag Calipari. I think your bias is showing.

The fact remains he started pressing with five minutes left against UNI and it ate them up. If he'd done it with ten minutes left we wouldn't be worrying about Michigan State tomorrow.

I'm not advocating we press all the time no matter what, just that it's better be able to do it than not be able to do it.
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Self has made Elite Eights at three stops doing it his way, with a National Title to boot. He's got a gaggle of conference titles. Thus, your Fulmer comparison falls apart. My opinion of Self as a coach wouldn't be any different if Chalmers bangs the jumper at the end of regulation off the back iron. He'd still be one of the best. Sound, fundamental halfcourt basketball wins games and championships. Ratball, led by a carnival barker, gets you pretty much nothing when the money is on the table.
 
#52
#52
Titanic said:
I think Phil Fulmer has one of those...did that make him infallible?

If Memphis doesn't collapse worse than we did against Ohio State in 07 he doesn't even have that one. So we collapse against OSU and that proves Bruce's style is a failure(yet Matta is still an idiot in your book), but Memphis folds like a card table against Kansas and somehow that validates Self as a coach and doesn't tarnish your view of the cheating scumbag Calipari. I think your bias is showing.

The fact remains he started pressing with five minutes left against UNI and it ate them up. If he'd done it with ten minutes left we wouldn't be worrying about Michigan State tomorrow.

I'm not advocating we press all the time no matter what, just that it's better be able to do it than not be able to do it.
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I realize I had few celebratory drinks during the '08 title game, being as it was between two coaches I consider friends, but when exactly was Memphis up 20? I missed that part.
 
#53
#53
hatvol96 said:
I realize I had few celebratory drinks during the '08 title game, being as it was between two coaches I consider friends, but when exactly was Memphis up 20? I missed that part.
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I think your memory serves you correctly. They weren't up 20. That comparison is about as effective as his Failmer comparison.
 
#54
#54
Titanic said:
Yeah, because the SEC in football is a great comparison to the Big 12 in basketball. There are five or six of the twenty or thirty greatest football programs of all time in the SEC. How many bluebloods are there in Big 12 basketball? Plus losing ONE game in football can cost you that chance. Not so in basketball.
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Yea, the Big 12 sucks in basketball. That's why they've had 2 teams ranked #1 this year, and they aren't even the two teams that are in the elite eight.
 
#55
#55
So.... I guess Kentucky didn't need to be able to play Bruce's crappy style of basketball either. Nah, the ability to take advantage of a team without a competent ballhandler in the game isn't something they should be interested in.
 
#56
#56
hatvol96 said:
I'm still waiting to see how the idea that "controlled chaos" is a garbage system that will never win big in March has been refuted.
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So you think Pearl's first few teams should have run clock and grinded it out? I'm guessing that can't be what you are saying.

One of the reason's Pearl played "controlled chaos" is to try and gain an advantage in the SEC with a system that other teams didn't see often. It played to his strengths and it game him an element that teams weren't prepared for. It worked.

Was Pearl going to win a national championship with that group and that system? Absolutely not. I don't believe anyone expected that... including Pearl.

If those teams weren't able to hit 3s, they were going to lose. But with any other game plan, they would have lost anyway.
 
#57
#57
Yeah, I don't really understand why people on this site want to try and fit everything in a box. Pressure can be very effective in certain situations and a miserable failure in others. Is this news to anyone?
 
#58
#58
ballervol12 said:
So you think Pearl's first few teams should have run clock and grinded it out? I'm guessing that can't be what you are saying.

One of the reason's Pearl played "controlled chaos" is to try and gain an advantage in the SEC with a system that other teams didn't see often. It played to his strengths and it game him an element that teams weren't prepared for. It worked.

Was Pearl going to win a national championship with that group and that system? Absolutely not. I don't believe anyone expected that... including Pearl.

If those teams weren't able to hit 3s, they were going to lose. But with any other game plan, they would have lost anyway.
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He tried to play the same garbage system last year, until he realized he was going to end up in the NIT if he didn't stop pressing. Hell, he was crying after the Alabama game this year that we weren't "playing Tennessee basketball." He's like his mentor, Tom Davis. They think their worthless little ratball system makes them smarter than everyone else. Watch him revert to it next year. He's like a Democrat with Taxes or a Republican with Bible thumping. He might pretend to go away from it for awhile, but he'll always go back.
 
#59
#59
hatvol96 said:
He tried to play the same garbage system last year, until he realized he was going to end up in the NIT if he didn't stop pressing. Hell, he was crying after the Alabama game this year that we weren't "playing Tennessee basketball." He's like his mentor, Tom Davis. They think their worthless little ratball system makes them smarter than everyone else. Watch him revert to it next year. He's like a Democrat with Taxes or a Republican with Bible thumping. He might pretend to go away from it for awhile, but he'll always go back.
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I really doubt that he will, Hat. I mean, surely to God this has been an eye opening experience for him on how we should be playing.
 
#60
#60
hatvol96 said:
He tried to play the same garbage system last year, until he realized he was going to end up in the NIT if he didn't stop pressing. Hell, he was crying after the Alabama game this year that we weren't "playing Tennessee basketball." He's like his mentor, Tom Davis. They think their worthless little ratball system makes them smarter than everyone else. Watch him revert to it next year. He's like a Democrat with Taxes or a Republican with Bible thumping. He might pretend to go away from it for awhile, but he'll always go back.
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I don't see what the big negative of the uptempo pressing system is if you apply it intelligently and use it as a tool, which is what it is. Optimally you would have lineups that you press with and lineups that you don't, and you make those decisions on the basis of the opponent and how they match up to it. Why this is some completely unacceptable concept to you is beyond me. It isn't like we pressed ALL the time even when we had ****ty halfcourt defense and great players like Lofton and Jajuan to help run it. Bruce has shown he's intelligent enough to mix it up.
 
#61
#61
LawVol13 said:
I really doubt that he will, Hat. I mean, surely to God this has been an eye opening experience for him on how we should be playing.
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That's where I am. I know it flies in the face of his comments, but I gripe because I want him to adjust over time, not because I want a new coach.

He has to have seen that halfcourt coaching, on both ends, wins big, tight games.
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#62
#62
BigPapaVol said:
That's where I am. I know it flies in the face of his comments, but I gripe because I want him to adjust over time, not because I want a new coach.

He has to have seen that halfcourt coaching, on both ends, wins big, tight games.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
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It helps win them, but you need to be able to take advantage of situations like Calipari faced today and what Bill Self faced last week. To stubbornly allow a team that doesn't have the ballhandlers to get the ball up the floor to walk it up every time is idiotic. Winning basketball and the ability to pressure in the backcourt when appropriate are not mutually exclusive. The second Mizzoula went off the floor tonight Calipari should have been pressing the hell out of Ebanks and whoever else Huggy Bear had bringing the ball up.
 
#63
#63
hatvol96 said:
He tried to play the same garbage system last year, until he realized he was going to end up in the NIT if he didn't stop pressing. Hell, he was crying after the Alabama game this year that we weren't "playing Tennessee basketball." He's like his mentor, Tom Davis. They think their worthless little ratball system makes them smarter than everyone else. Watch him revert to it next year. He's like a Democrat with Taxes or a Republican with Bible thumping. He might pretend to go away from it for awhile, but he'll always go back.
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I agree with your first point. That team was a dismal pressing team and it would have been ignorant to continue to force the issue.

I heard the comment after the Alabama game and I don't remember him using 'Tennessee basketball' synonymously with pressing... but maybe I'm wrong.

I think Pearl has proven to be a good coach and I think he learned a lot this year about how to coach defense and defend the ball screen. I expect his teams to have more of a defensive identity in the future.

That said, if a team has poor guard play, why not pressure them? At least on the inbounds pass where Pearl's teams have proven to be so effective. Or, if you have athletic guys that can run and you have the opportunity to, then why not take the fast break points?

Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you mean when you refer to a ratball system?
 
#64
#64
Titanic said:
It helps win them, but you need to be able to take advantage of situations like Calipari faced today and what Bill Self faced last week. To stubbornly allow a team that doesn't have the ballhandlers to get the ball up the floor to walk it up every time is idiotic. Winning basketball and the ability to pressure in the backcourt when appropriate are not mutually exclusive. The second Mizzoula went off the floor tonight Calipari should have been pressing the hell out of Ebanks and whoever else Huggy Bear had bringing the ball up.
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You're making it fit your worldview. Nobody is arguing that sporadic pressing is a problem.
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#67
#67
BigPapaVol said:
You're making it fit your worldview. Nobody is arguing that sporadic pressing is a problem.
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When does it cross the line from sporadic to ratball? 50/50? 70/30 either way? I have no problem with either style of play, and it should depend entirely on the matchup.
 
#68
#68
Titanic said:
When does it cross the line from sporadic to ratball? 50/50? 70/30 either way? I have no problem with either style of play, and it should depend entirely on the matchup.
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Yeah, look at all the teams that have hung banners playing the way UT did its first three years.
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#70
#70
BigPapaVol said:
That a style of play that is essentially 40 minutes of he'll with no semblance of any halfcourt game is a disastrous approach.
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When you say 'no semblance', do you mean not effective or do you mean just running up and down the floor without attempting to play a half court offense?
 
#71
#71
BigPapaVol said:
That a style of play that is essentially 40 minutes of he'll with no semblance of any halfcourt game is a disastrous approach.
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Nolan would be offended by you even remotely comparing what Pearl and Davis do/did to his system.
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#72
#72
hatvol96 said:
Nolan would be offended by you even remotely comparing what Pearl and Davis do/did to his system.
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hatvol, can you describe 'Pearl's system' for me and tell me what it is that you despise about it? I seem to keep missing that part.
 
#73
#73
hatvol96 said:
Yeah, look at all the teams that have hung banners playing the way UT did its first three years.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
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How many games would Tennessee, with those players, have won playing the system we've used this year? The rosters are not remotely similar.
 
#74
#74
BigPapaVol said:
That's where I am. I know it flies in the face of his comments, but I gripe because I want him to adjust over time, not because I want a new coach.

He has to have seen that halfcourt coaching, on both ends, wins big, tight games.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
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He'd be insane to think that we would have won by pressing and playing no half-court defense.
 
#75
#75
Titanic said:
How many games would Tennessee, with those players, have won playing the system we've used this year? The rosters are not remotely similar.
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He didn't press and run out of necessity; he did it because that was his system. What is doing now is not "his system." But hopefully, we continue playing this way as it is obviously much more effective.
 
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