I like what this man stands for

#76
#76
Boston Globe Article, for some detail.

An American officer has been stripped of his command after pleading guilty to assaulting an Iraqi detainee during interrogation, the military announced yesterday. A disciplinary proceeding found that the actions by Lieutenant Colonel Allen West were serious enough to "merit a court-martial." But the military said in a statement that mitigating circumstances -- specifically, the "stressful environment" of combat -- and West's distinguished service record prompted the Army to instead relieve West of his command, fine him $5,000, and order him back to the United States, where he will be allowed to retire.

"Frustration and anger overcame his professional ethics and personal values, and he performed what he knew to be illegal and immoral acts," said the statement issued by the Army's Fourth Infantry Division.

During a closed-door tribunal Friday in the town of Tikrit, West was found guilty of three counts of aggravated assault and a single count of communicating a threat. The ruling was issued after West pleaded guilty to misconduct.

He is the most senior officer to receive disciplinary action since the start of the war. West served as a battalion commander with the Fourth Infantry Division and was in charge of about 800 soldiers operating in one of the most dangerous regions in Iraq. For the past few months, he has been confined to the division's base in Tikrit.

The military said that during an interrogation of an Iraqi police officer Aug. 20 near the village of Taji, north of Baghdad, West fired his pistol near the head of the prisoner, threatened to kill him, and allowed his troops to beat the man. The detainee, Yahya Jhodri Hamoodi, was suspected of having knowledge of a planned attack on US troops in the Sunni Triangle, the region north and west of Baghdad that has been a hotbed of anti-US resistance. Scores of soldiers have been killed or wounded in bomb, rocket, and small-arms ambushes in the area.

West acknowledged last month before a military tribunal that his actions were wrong, but said that at the time of the incident he believed he was protecting the lives of his troops. "If it's about the lives of my men and their safety, I'd go through hell with a gasoline can," West said during the earlier proceeding.

The disciplinary action against West was ordered by General Raymond Odierno, commander of the Fourth Infantry Division.
The military said that through his actions against the detainee, West "disobeyed laws, ignored orders ... and mortgaged future discipline in his unit. Without discipline, there is no trust, no cohesion, and no higher purpose for which we fight."

But the military also stated, "while his crimes merit a court-martial, mitigating factors were considered, including the stressful environment ... and Lieutenant Colonel West's record as an officer and commander."​

Like I said, he's a menace. Take a look at what his commanding officer had to say.

If this were a Democrat, you guys would be outraged that he had any backing at all. That Palin and the TPers support him is no surprise, with their "take matters into our own hands and the law be damned" mentality.

Disgusting.
 
#78
#78
codes are violated regularly. the results of the inquiry demonstrate how serious the military viewed this violation.
 
#80
#80
Boston Globe Article, for some detail.

An American officer has been stripped of his command after pleading guilty to assaulting an Iraqi detainee during interrogation, the military announced yesterday. A disciplinary proceeding found that the actions by Lieutenant Colonel Allen West were serious enough to "merit a court-martial." But the military said in a statement that mitigating circumstances -- specifically, the "stressful environment" of combat -- and West's distinguished service record prompted the Army to instead relieve West of his command, fine him $5,000, and order him back to the United States, where he will be allowed to retire.

"Frustration and anger overcame his professional ethics and personal values, and he performed what he knew to be illegal and immoral acts," said the statement issued by the Army's Fourth Infantry Division.

During a closed-door tribunal Friday in the town of Tikrit, West was found guilty of three counts of aggravated assault and a single count of communicating a threat. The ruling was issued after West pleaded guilty to misconduct.

He is the most senior officer to receive disciplinary action since the start of the war. West served as a battalion commander with the Fourth Infantry Division and was in charge of about 800 soldiers operating in one of the most dangerous regions in Iraq. For the past few months, he has been confined to the division's base in Tikrit.

The military said that during an interrogation of an Iraqi police officer Aug. 20 near the village of Taji, north of Baghdad, West fired his pistol near the head of the prisoner, threatened to kill him, and allowed his troops to beat the man. The detainee, Yahya Jhodri Hamoodi, was suspected of having knowledge of a planned attack on US troops in the Sunni Triangle, the region north and west of Baghdad that has been a hotbed of anti-US resistance. Scores of soldiers have been killed or wounded in bomb, rocket, and small-arms ambushes in the area.

West acknowledged last month before a military tribunal that his actions were wrong, but said that at the time of the incident he believed he was protecting the lives of his troops. "If it's about the lives of my men and their safety, I'd go through hell with a gasoline can," West said during the earlier proceeding.

The disciplinary action against West was ordered by General Raymond Odierno, commander of the Fourth Infantry Division.
The military said that through his actions against the detainee, West "disobeyed laws, ignored orders ... and mortgaged future discipline in his unit. Without discipline, there is no trust, no cohesion, and no higher purpose for which we fight."

But the military also stated, "while his crimes merit a court-martial, mitigating factors were considered, including the stressful environment ... and Lieutenant Colonel West's record as an officer and commander."​

Like I said, he's a menace. Take a look at what his commanding officer had to say.

If this were a Democrat, you guys would be outraged that he had any backing at all. That Palin and the TPers support him is no surprise, with their "take matters into our own hands and the law be damned" mentality.

Disgusting.

Still waiting for you to condemn Sestak...
 
#81
#81
had this happened during WWII, Korea or Vietnam, nothing would have come of it. However, in the politically correct era we live in, the sensitivities of the local culture and the whims of the ACLU must be observed and obeyed before anything else.
 
#82
#82
if it was up to me torture would be a perfectably acceptable way to get information from a military prisoner. our enemies have no such moral qualms.
 
#83
#83
Boston Globe Article, for some detail.

An American officer has been stripped of his command after pleading guilty to assaulting an Iraqi detainee during interrogation, the military announced yesterday. A disciplinary proceeding found that the actions by Lieutenant Colonel Allen West were serious enough to "merit a court-martial." But the military said in a statement that mitigating circumstances -- specifically, the "stressful environment" of combat -- and West's distinguished service record prompted the Army to instead relieve West of his command, fine him $5,000, and order him back to the United States, where he will be allowed to retire.

"Frustration and anger overcame his professional ethics and personal values, and he performed what he knew to be illegal and immoral acts," said the statement issued by the Army's Fourth Infantry Division.

During a closed-door tribunal Friday in the town of Tikrit, West was found guilty of three counts of aggravated assault and a single count of communicating a threat. The ruling was issued after West pleaded guilty to misconduct.

He is the most senior officer to receive disciplinary action since the start of the war. West served as a battalion commander with the Fourth Infantry Division and was in charge of about 800 soldiers operating in one of the most dangerous regions in Iraq. For the past few months, he has been confined to the division's base in Tikrit.

The military said that during an interrogation of an Iraqi police officer Aug. 20 near the village of Taji, north of Baghdad, West fired his pistol near the head of the prisoner, threatened to kill him, and allowed his troops to beat the man. The detainee, Yahya Jhodri Hamoodi, was suspected of having knowledge of a planned attack on US troops in the Sunni Triangle, the region north and west of Baghdad that has been a hotbed of anti-US resistance. Scores of soldiers have been killed or wounded in bomb, rocket, and small-arms ambushes in the area.

West acknowledged last month before a military tribunal that his actions were wrong, but said that at the time of the incident he believed he was protecting the lives of his troops. "If it's about the lives of my men and their safety, I'd go through hell with a gasoline can," West said during the earlier proceeding.

The disciplinary action against West was ordered by General Raymond Odierno, commander of the Fourth Infantry Division.
The military said that through his actions against the detainee, West "disobeyed laws, ignored orders ... and mortgaged future discipline in his unit. Without discipline, there is no trust, no cohesion, and no higher purpose for which we fight."

But the military also stated, "while his crimes merit a court-martial, mitigating factors were considered, including the stressful environment ... and Lieutenant Colonel West's record as an officer and commander."​

Like I said, he's a menace. Take a look at what his commanding officer had to say.

If this were a Democrat, you guys would be outraged that he had any backing at all. That Palin and the TPers support him is no surprise, with their "take matters into our own hands and the law be damned" mentality.

Disgusting.

BS, you sound like a blowhard here LG, I would also like to point out how hypocritical your "laws be damned" comment is considering the current liberal commander in chief is ignoring laws to no end and outright refusing to enforce some.

Save that high and mighty charade for another time when it can be applied with a straight face without being so hypocritical.
 
#84
#84
BS, you sound like a blowhard here LG, I would also like to point out how hypocritical your "laws be damned" comment is considering the current liberal commander in chief is ignoring laws to no end and outright refusing to enforce some.

Save that high and mighty charade for another time when it can be applied with a straight face without being so hypocritical.

that's because it's ok to violate laws as long as it benefits your union buddies and hurts those greedy businessmen. heaven forbid we violate some laws to save american lives though.
 
#85
#85
perhaps you are not aware that it is a officer's DUTY (not just right) to disobey immoral orders. obviously his fellow officer's agreed.

In LG's defense, I doubt that very few people that have not served in the military know that simple fact.
 
#86
#86
Like I said, he's a menace. Take a look at what his commanding officer had to say.

If this were a Democrat, you guys would be outraged that he had any backing at all. That Palin and the TPers support him is no surprise, with their "take matters into our own hands and the law be damned" mentality.

Disgusting.

A lawyer, of all people, should be able to read between the lines on this one; but I'll spell it out for you. Under the circumstances LTC West got the lightest punishment possible. There are many officers that admire LTC West, but they aren't going to say it in public. His commanding officer had to cover his own career, so he said what he had to say in a public statement. 4th ID had a lot more issues than what LTC West did.
 
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#87
#87
A lawyer, of all people should be able to read between the lines on this one. But I'll spell it out for you. Under the circumstances LTC West got the lightest punishment possible. There are many officers that admire LTC West, but they aren't going to say it in public. His commanding officer had to cover his own career, so he said what he had to say in a public statement. 4th ID had a lot more issues than what LTC West did.

Exactly, what LG will refuse to believe however is that had you asked his higher ups behind closed doors if this was the type of man they want leading others in the field 90% would say absolutely.
 
#88
#88
Exactly, what LG will refuse to believe however is that had you asked his higher ups behind closed doors if this was the type of man they want leading others in the field 90% would say absolutely.

And the other 10% are the Democrat military leaders that truefan likes to brag about.
 
#89
#89
So wait... this man was within months of 20 years of service and full military retirement. And he took a chance to pizz that all away to save a few lives? He did this just for kicks? He risked everything just to toy around with a terrorist freedom fighter? Is this what you are subtly suggesting, LG?
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#91
#91
LG you're what's wrong with this country. Why don't you take your bleeding heart liberal azz to another site, war is war. I don't care if he hung those *******s up side down and pissed on them repeatedly. The guy is exactly what we need in Washington to rid ourselves of people like you.
 
#92
#92
West is a mans man. He is a man of honor, something the liberal p_______s dont understand. Sometimes, LG, you have to do what you know is right, regardless of the outcome. By "assaulting" the enemy, Col. West saved some American families son and/or father.

People like you that weep for the enemy are pathetic. People like you are the reason the U.S. will never win another war. You view the military with contempt. Liberals view the military in contempt. They do, because the military swears an oath to protect the Constitution, something your party of choice loves to take a piss on when ever they get a chance.

If killing 1 Iraqi infiltrator, saves 10 Americans, I am for it. Its us or them and last time I checked, I was an American.

If you are ever in his presence, I would suggest you step aside and let a real man pass you by.
 
#93
#93
Wow, some of you guys have a real ability to see things in absolute black and white. Unfortunately, reality is rarely that well delimited. :\
 
#94
#94
Wow, some of you guys have a real ability to see things in absolute black and white. Unfortunately, reality is rarely that well delimited. :\

Do you think this guy did the best he could for his men or do you believe he is a loose cannon? Remember this is a man with an exemplary military career, you don't get where he was by being a loose cannon. He simply did what he thought was right by his men and tried to save lives.
 
#95
#95
Disgusting.


Its very easy for someone like yourself who has never touched a battlefield to condemn this hero for what you call his "disgusting" acts. The only thing disjusting in my eyes with this is your apparant agenda to impose your ignorance to this situation. I know that you bring up what his CO has to say about the man, but how about you poll his men and women who served under him and I would guarantee you would get a very different answer. I just dont see how can take this opportunity to call the man a menace who was protecting the lives of his men and women.
 
#96
#96
Wow, some of you guys have a real ability to see things in absolute black and white. Unfortunately, reality is rarely that well delimited. :\

you don't think calling the guy a disgrace is looking at things in black and white?
 
#97
#97
you don't think calling the guy a disgrace is looking at things in black and white?


Just because I criticize the guy for actively defying orders doesn't mean I agree with the orders. I think there is a very legitimate debate to be had as to how far soldiers can go in certain situations.

My problem with this fellow is that he violated an order and knew he was doing it. Not only that, he commanded a group of others and had them violate orders. This wasn't a heat of battle thing -- it was an illegal interrogation of someone they hoped had information, and in fact since then West says his characterization of the guy was wrong.

His violation of the orders was so severe that he was confined for a period of time and the disciplinary panel said it was court martial worthy. Instead, they hammered out an agreement where he was fined and allowed to resign form the military. Had he not done that deal, indications are that the consequences for him would have been really bad.

My second problem with it is that he is touting himself as a military man and Palin and even some of you are calling him a war hero.

From what I am reading about the situation, he is not. He is a criminal. It is an insult to those who have served honorably for this man and his supporters to latch onto some romanticized image of this guy just doing "what was right."

By definition, it wasn't. And as the military command said of this case, what he did undermines authority and the efforts of the military over there to prevail.
 
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Just because I criticize the guy for actively defying orders doesn't mean I agree with the orders. I think there is a very legitimate debate to be had as to how far soldiers can go in certain situations.

My problem with this fellow is that he violated an order and knew he was doing it. Not only that, he commanded a group of others and had them violate orders. This wasn't a heat of battle thing -- it was an illegal interrogation of someone they hoped had information, and in fact since then West says his characterization of the guy was wrong.

His violation of the orders was so severe that he was confined for a period of time and the disciplinary panel said it was court martial worthy. Instead, they hammered out an agreement where he was fined and allowed to resign form the military. Had he not done that deal, indications are that the consequences for him would have been really bad.

My second problem with it is that he is touting himself as a military man and Palin and even some of you are calling him a war hero.

From what I am reading about the situation, he is not. He is a criminal. It is an insult to those who have served honorably for this man and his supporters to latch onto some romanticized image of this guy just doing "what was right."

By definition, it wasn't. And as the military command said of this case, what he did undermines authority and the efforts of the military over there to prevail.

of course this was a heat of the battle thing.
 

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