I would like to see what Pearl could do with this team....

#328
#328
cncchris33 said:
Are you really that obtuse? Where do I say firing/HIRING???

I said firing/retaining a coach, which certainly implies that said coach is already employed by a school. The NCAA has no authority to make a school fire a coach, and they didn't make us fire Bruce Pearl. They'd simply make life hell for that school and coach if the administration chose to spit in their face by retaining him.

The same can be said for rehiring him after his show-cause is up. The NCAA can't really stop them, but they can make life miserable for both. And the first secondary violation, which is inevitable in EVERY program, will be the death blow, because as we've seen, the NCAA can judge and punish however they see fit, and the punishment doesn't always have to fit the crime. That's the risk any team that hires a show-cause coach faces.
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So you're saying if they retain the coach then the NCAA can't do anything but if they re-hire him after he's served his punishment which is what they prescribed then the school has to be worried?
 
#333
#333
Sandvol said:
So you're saying if they retain the coach then the NCAA can't do anything but if they re-hire him after he's served his punishment which is what they prescribed then the school has to be worried?
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No. The NCAA can do whatever they want short of making the school fire the coach. If Tennessee had said to the NCAA, "You know what, screw you! Our fans love Bruce Pearl and we're keeping him. Hit us with your best shot.", we would have been nailed to the wall, stripped of scholarships, recruiting restrictions, postseason bans, the whoke nine yards. We CHOSE to fire Pearl in hopes of receiving a milder sentence from the NCAA.

Any school that rehires him assumes the risk of hiring him. The NCAA will do that school no favors if runs afoul of the rules again. Tennessee rehiring him will be viewed as a spiteful move by the NCAA, and they'll camp out in Knoxville just waiting for a slip-up. Again, they can't stop Tennessee from doing it, but they can make life hell for our athletix department.

Sidenote: NCAA only has authority on coaching hires if said coach is currently serving a show-cause penalty. The school has to "show cause" for hiring that coach.
 
#336
#336
cncchris33 said:
No. The NCAA can do whatever they want short of making the school fire the coach. If Tennessee had said to the NCAA, "You know what, screw you! Our fans love Bruce Pearl and we're keeping him. Hit us with your best shot.", we would have been nailed to the wall, stripped of scholarships, recruiting restrictions, postseason bans, the whoke nine yards. We CHOSE to fire Pearl in hopes of receiving a milder sentence from the NCAA.

Any school that rehires him assumes the risk of hiring him. The NCAA will do that school no favors if runs afoul of the rules again. Tennessee rehiring him will be viewed as a spiteful move by the NCAA, and they'll camp out in Knoxville just waiting for a slip-up. Again, they can't stop Tennessee from doing it, but they can make life hell for our athletix department.

Sidenote: NCAA only has authority on coaching hires if said coach is currently serving a show-cause penalty. The school has to "show cause" for hiring that coach.
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So we banned our self from the tourney by hiring Counzo
 
#337
#337
volatil said:
So we banned our self from the tourney by hiring Counzo
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Perhaps so, and note that I never said he was a good hire. We could have paid a coach top dollar to come in and pick up where Pearl left off, but we (like always) went on the cheap and got what we got. Hindsight is 20/20.
 
#338
#338
cncchris33 said:
No. The NCAA can do whatever they want short of making the school fire the coach. If Tennessee had said to the NCAA, "You know what, screw you! Our fans love Bruce Pearl and we're keeping him. Hit us with your best shot.", we would have been nailed to the wall, stripped of scholarships, recruiting restrictions, postseason bans, the whoke nine yards. We CHOSE to fire Pearl in hopes of receiving a milder sentence from the NCAA.

Any school that rehires him assumes the risk of hiring him. The NCAA will do that school no favors if runs afoul of the rules again. Tennessee rehiring him will be viewed as a spiteful move by the NCAA, and they'll camp out in Knoxville just waiting for a slip-up. Again, they can't stop Tennessee from doing it, but they can make life hell for our athletix department.

Sidenote: NCAA only has authority on coaching hires if said coach is currently serving a show-cause penalty. The school has to "show cause" for hiring that coach.
Click to expand...

So we chose to fire Pearl with a gun aimed at our backs but we didn't really have to. Is that what you're saying? And, I don't think the NCAA has the resources you think they do. Can you give me any example where a school re-hired a coach after a show cause ban and the NCAA camped out in that town? They usually find their evidence when someone sends it to them. Also, wouldn't Pearl have grounds for a civil suit if the NCAA continued to harass him and prevent his employment when he has served his punishment? He didn't obtain a lifetime ban did he?
 
#339
#339
Sandvol said:
So we chose to fire Pearl with a gun aimed at our backs but we didn't really have to. Is that what you're saying? And, I don't think the NCAA has the resources you think they do. Can you give me any example where a school re-hired a coach after a show cause ban and the NCAA camped out in that town? They usually find their evidence when someone sends it to them. Also, wouldn't Pearl have grounds for a civil suit if the NCAA continued to harass him and prevent his employment when he has served his punishment? He didn't obtain a lifetime ban did he?
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That would be hard to do, because no school has ever re-hired a coach they fired that got a show cause.
 
#340
#340
VolsSportsFan said:
That would be hard to do, because no school has ever re-hired a coach they fired that got a show cause.
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That's my point. It is all supposition now. I guess I'm naïve but why would the NCAA be so vindictive? Do they have an axe to grind against Pearl?
 
#341
#341
Sandvol said:
That's my point. It is all supposition now. I guess I'm naïve but why would the NCAA be so vindictive? Do they have an axe to grind against Pearl?
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The whole discussion is a crapshoot. The NCAA has proven one thing in their existence: that they are inconsistent and unpredictable. They got a black eye from their Miami handling, so in that sense it might be a good time to go at them; but then again who's to say they might not single out UT for going after a guy that lied to them?

The only thing about the whole thing that makes me raise an eyebrow is that Pearl choose to stay in the Knoxville area. I have no idea if that shows that he is praying for another shot at UT, or if maybe he just liked the area.
 
#342
#342
cncchris33 said:
No. The NCAA can do whatever they want short of making the school fire the coach. If Tennessee had said to the NCAA, "You know what, screw you! Our fans love Bruce Pearl and we're keeping him. Hit us with your best shot.", we would have been nailed to the wall, stripped of scholarships, recruiting restrictions, postseason bans, the whoke nine yards. We CHOSE to fire Pearl in hopes of receiving a milder sentence from the NCAA.

Any school that rehires him assumes the risk of hiring him. The NCAA will do that school no favors if runs afoul of the rules again. Tennessee rehiring him will be viewed as a spiteful move by the NCAA, and they'll camp out in Knoxville just waiting for a slip-up. Again, they can't stop Tennessee from doing it, but they can make life hell for our athletix department.

Sidenote: NCAA only has authority on coaching hires if said coach is currently serving a show-cause penalty. The school has to "show cause" for hiring that coach.
Click to expand...

If the NCAA camped out on our campus hoping to catch any small violation so they could slam us would be a God send. We could pay off all our athletic debts and deposit billions in the general fund for scholarships. When a governing body sets things up to go after one school in a vindictive manner then it is actionable at law.
Pearl has paid the price they set down for him and we will never find a better coach for our program than him. It is time to bring him home, so lets do it.
 
#343
#343
knowthevols said:
If the NCAA camped out on our campus hoping to catch any small violation so they could slam us would be a God send. We could pay off all our athletic debts and deposit billions in the general fund for scholarships. When a governing body sets things up to go after one school in a vindictive manner then it is actionable at law.
Pearl has paid the price they set down for him and we will never find a better coach for our program than him. It is time to bring him home, so lets do it.
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I'm not trying to be mean, but I really don't get this line of thinking. I get our coach history is bad, but I refuse to believe that we can't find someone who can do just as well as him.
 
#344
#344
Sandvol said:
So we chose to fire Pearl with a gun aimed at our backs but we didn't really have to. Is that what you're saying?

YES. WE DIDN'T HAVE TO IN THE SENSE THAT THE NCAA CAN TERMINATE COACH'S EMPLOYMENT.

And, I don't think the NCAA has the resources you think they do. Can you give me any example where a school re-hired a coach after a show cause ban and the NCAA camped out in that town? They usually find their evidence when someone sends it to them.

YOU'RE TAKING ME A LITTLE TO LITERALLY. NO, THEY WON'T BE CAMPING OUT, LYING IN WAIT. THEY WILL HOWEVER INVESTIGATE EVERY SINGLE THING THEY GET WIND OF. THERE ARE SO FEW EXAMPLES OF A COACH ISSUED A SHOW-CAUSE ORDER EVER BECOMING A HEAD COACH AGAIN. TODD BOZEMAN IS THE ONLY ONE I KNOW OF, AND HE DIDN'T RETURN TO CAL-BERKELEY. HE FELL ALL THE WAY TO MORGAN STATE. MOST NEVER RETURN TO COACHING PERIOD, AND THOSE WHO HAVE, ARE IN THE EQUIVALENT IF BASKETBALL SIBERIA.

Also, wouldn't Pearl have grounds for a civil suit if the NCAA continued to harass him and prevent his employment when he has served his punishment?

THAT IS A LEGAL QUESTION, AND I'M SURE HE WOULD IF HE COULD PROVE HE WAS BEING TARGETED WITHOUT CAUSE, BUT GIVEN HIS HISTORY WITH THE NCAA, THAT WOULD BE A DIFFICULT SELL.

He didn't obtain a lifetime ban did he?

NO, BUT A SHOW-CAUSE IS USUALLY AN EFFECTIVE BLACKBALLING TOOL, OR SO HISTORY SUGGESTS. HE MAY BE TUE ONE TO BUCK THE TREND, BUT I DON'T SEE IT BEING AT TENNESSEE. IT'S NOT WORTH THE RISK OF THE POTENTIAL TROUBLE THAT COMES WITH HIM IF HE SLIPPED UP AGAIN. THAT'S HARD TO SEE AS A FAN, BUT AS AN ATHLETIC DIRECTOR CHARGED WITH RUNNING A MULTI-MILLION $ OPERATION, IT'S AKIN TO HIRING FORMER ENRON EXECS TO MANAGE YOUR COMPANY'S FINANCES. THE RISK ISN'T WORTH THE POSSIBLE REWARD.
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Sorry for the ALL CAPS. It was just easier to answer each question individually, and I'm on mobile.
 
#345
#345
Sandvol said:
That's my point. It is all supposition now. I guess I'm naïve but why would the NCAA be so vindictive? Do they have an axe to grind against Pearl?
Click to expand...

Not necessarily against Pearl (though they may), but more an ax to grind with anyone who questions/undermines their authority.

The school that fired him him subsequently rehiring him would be spitting in their face as the NCAA views it. It also sets a bad precedent for future situations.

I don't have to tell you the NCAA has major control issues and they want their member institutions to operate in fear of their wrath. It's the only way they can continue their authority.
 
#346
#346
knowthevols said:
If the NCAA camped out on our campus hoping to catch any small violation so they could slam us would be a God send. We could pay off all our athletic debts and deposit billions in the general fund for scholarships. When a governing body sets things up to go after one school in a vindictive manner then it is actionable at law.
Pearl has paid the price they set down for him and we will never find a better coach for our program than him. It is time to bring him home, so lets do it.
Click to expand...

Wasn't meant to be taken literal.
 
#347
#347
VolsSportsFan said:
I'm not trying to be mean, but I really don't get this line of thinking. I get our coach history is bad, but I refuse to believe that we can't find someone who can do just as well as him.
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We could. I just don't have a lot of confidence in Cheeks or Hart. I mean Hart came from the FSU and Alabama athletic departments. Have either hired a good basketball coach lately? I guess you could say FSU's Coach Hamilton was OK (is he still there?) and maybe Alabama's newest coach might turn out OK but they haven't set the world on fire. Neither are a Bruce Pearl. Plus, his coaching search for a football coach appeared amateurish. Before he fires Martin he better have a good coach locked-up or he's going to appear amateurish again. (P.S.-maybe if we can get him talking to Ernie Grunfeld.)
 
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