If anyone still thinks stars dont really matter

#53
#53
Yes, all those top 5 classes Les Miles had sure helped him to an amazing 2-2 record!
 
#54
#54
Glad these 3* awful players at Tennessee was able to beat those 5* super team in athens


Saban turned an awful MSU program into a 10 win team and had multiple major upsets along the way. he turned LSU into a national championship team and beat a much more talented Tennessee team in the SEC championship.

Yall right though, it has nothing to do with coaching, only talent :eek:lol:
 
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#55
#55
Smokey123 said:
Glad these 3* awful players at Tennessee was able to beat those 5* super team in athens


Saban turned an awful MSU program into a 10 win team and had multiple major upsets along the way. he turned LSU into a national championship team and beat a much more talented Tennessee team in the SEC championship.

Yall right though, it has nothing to do with coaching, only talent :eek:lol:
Click to expand...

Who said coaching had nothing to do with it?
 
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#56
#56
Can someone please tell me how to put a thread on ignore? This one has attracted all of the "realists" to come out and completely bash our recruiting, players and coaching staff.
 
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#57
#57
Rankings correlate with talent, but rankings don't equal talent. I think that is the objection that people have with the worship of stars that so many on here practice. It's easy to name a dozen three stars that had great careera. It is easy to find a dozen five stars that never materialized. To hold "number of stars" up as the gold standard for recruiting success is wrong. To completely ignore consensus rankings is also wrong.

This has become an almost childish debate where certain folks who love to complain can find their excuse. If you hate our players because they don't meet you standard on consensus rankings, maybe you should find another team. There is no short term solution to kids exercising options to attend the other 135 schools available to them

I feel confident that CBJ and company are recruiting the best players they can get. Alabama and OSU are out recruiting the rest of the NCAA right now. Coaches aren't choosing to be out recruited. In time, we may catch up. For now, we get the best guys we can and go win some games with them. In time, we win often enough to become the hot school. Whining fans don't help that happen faster.
 
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#58
#58
If stars and rankings mean so much I can't wait to see our QB play next year. Jarrett G was a 6.0 4 star, Jalen Hurts was only a 5.8 4 star. #3 dual threat qb vs #9 dual threat qb according to Rivals.

The biggest difference is coaching. How many coaches from Butch's staff have been offered other positions by other colleges? If our coaches could develop and coach guys up we would have constant coaching turnover like bama and Ohio state have. Instead we have a former swimming assistant as OC, an OL coach that most have been wanting out since year 2/3, a WR coach that didn't get a chance at OC when his buddy was hired on as Marylands head coach and a Grad Assistant for our QB's. Our players have managed to get them a couple wins over the past 4 years but if we want to beat the big boys we need coaches that can push and get the full potential out or these guys.
 
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#59
#59
GwinnettVol21 said:
If stars and rankings mean so much I can't wait to see our QB play next year. Jarrett G was a 6.0 4 star, Jalen Hurts was only a 5.8 4 star. #3 dual threat qb vs #9 dual threat qb according to Rivals.

The biggest difference is coaching. How many coaches from Butch's staff have been offered other positions by other colleges? If our coaches could develop and coach guys up we would have constant coaching turnover like bama and Ohio state have. Instead we have a former swimming assistant as OC, an OL coach that most have been wanting out since year 2/3, a WR coach that didn't get a chance at OC when his buddy was hired on as Marylands head coach and a Grad Assistant for our QB's. Our players have managed to get them a couple wins over the past 4 years but if we want to beat the big boys we need coaches that can push and get the full potential out or these guys.
Click to expand...

Wow. Some of you really can't see it.

The biggest difference is talent. Plain and simple. Other than Derek Barnett, Bama has the better player at every position and in most cases it is not close.
 
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#60
#60
Recruiting well is part of coaching well. Very simple concept. You will not beat a big player with a small player. You won't catch a fast player with a slow player. You won't defeat a a strong player with a weak player.

When you have gathered the top level talent, you still have to coach it in a fundamentally sound manner. If there are changes in the way schemes are ran, then you must keep up and then adapt with the times. But you can still run Power-I or a traditional 4-3 if you recruit to it well enough.


Game day coaching is overrated, largely because COORDINATORS CALL THE GAME, and not THE HEAD COACH (shocking, I know). Head coaches decide whether to punt or to go for it. They obviously have veto power, but it's just that. A veto. Not the original call itself.

Back to talent. 4 & 5 stars TOTALLY MATTER. The argument for winning championships with lesser talent is a weak one. Who would be the example of a coach winning the SEC Title with a team that was stacked with 3 stars and other such lesser players? What about who has won a National Title with such a roster. ESPECIALLY since Saban took over at Alabama. I expect the list of names to be fairly short.

The only reason Clem$on gave Bama a game in the playoff was because of all the marquee talent they deployed. They were right there at the end and it took an insides kick to derail their momentum. Michigan State on the other hand, had the (under)performance of a bunch of three star players to lean on. Can you recall the score, because I don't. I quit watching when I saw they weren't competing with the talent of Alabama.

Maybe I'm missing something here. But in my view winning on the recruiting trail is what gives you a chance to win on the field. Talent acquisition is a HUGE part of coaching. It is where "coaching" starts in my opinion.
 
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#63
#63
drvenner said:
Can someone please tell me how to put a thread on ignore? This one has attracted all of the "realists" to come out and completely bash our recruiting, players and coaching staff.
Click to expand...

Click on the "thread tools" icon in the upper right area. It will give you a drop down menu. From there, click ignore thread.
 
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#64
#64
Take this scenario. Alabama vs The SEC. Take every team other than Alabama and put together a 3 deep team made up of the best players from every other team. The game would be played in the Georgia Dome for the SEC title. And your coaches are.

Head Coach-Derek Dooley
OC-Jim Chaney
DC-Sal Sunseri

Would Alabama still win????
 
#65
#65
cwbytruckers said:
Take this scenario. Alabama vs The SEC. Take every team other than Alabama and put together a 3 deep team made up of the best players from every other team. The game would be played in the Georgia Dome for the SEC title. And your coaches are.

Head Coach-Derek Dooley
OC-Jim Chaney
DC-Sal Sunseri

Would Alabama still win????
Click to expand...

It would be a shoot out for sure. Jim Chaney did a pretty good job as an OC here. And they already run a 3-4 defense so there wouldn't be an adjustment there. I'd say they'd give everyone a run for their money.
 
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#67
#67
cwbytruckers said:
Take this scenario. Alabama vs The SEC. Take every team other than Alabama and put together a 3 deep team made up of the best players from every other team. The game would be played in the Georgia Dome for the SEC title. And your coaches are.

Head Coach-Derek Dooley
OC-Jim Chaney
DC-Sal Sunseri

Would Alabama still win????
Click to expand...

Sunseri is terrible beyond words. He could account for below level W/L records himself, and that's the truth. But there is a difference in 'not being great' and being terrible. I agree with 89 for the most part. Remove Sunseri and the results would be close.

I believe Saban to be a really good coach. Is he the god his jock sniffers make him out to be? Unlikely. While Louisiana is swarming with talent, I highly doubt he builds the same empire there as Alabama has been afforded under the new SEC.
Even with all his experience since his MSU days, could he return there and win the same # of titles? Imo, no and it's not even close.

There is a middle ground here. Saban is a really, really good coach.
Would he be the legend he has become without the assembly line of 5 star talent, unbelievable stats showing lack of calls (refs) and full "support" of the SEC head office? No chance in hell.
 
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#68
#68
chargervol said:
Sunseri is terrible beyond words. He could account for below level W/L records himself, and that's the truth. But there is a difference in 'not being great' and being terrible. I agree with 89 for the most part. Remove Sunseri and the results would be close.

I believe Saban to be a really good coach. Is he the god his jock sniffers make him out to be? Unlikely. While Louisiana is swarming with talent, I highly doubt he builds the same empire there as Alabama has been afforded under the new SEC.
Even with all his experience since his MSU days, could he return there and win the same # of titles? Imo, no and it's not even close.

There is a middle ground here. Saban is a really, really good coach.
Would he be the legend he has become without the assembly line of 5 star talent, unbelievable stats showing lack of calls (refs)and full "support" of the SEC head office? No chance in hell.
Click to expand...

Can you provide a link to the above? I'd like to see those stats
 
#69
#69
volfanngatorland said:
Can you provide a link to the above? I'd like to see those stats
Click to expand...

I no longer have the article, because I have a wife and kids on the same google account - have to have a history limit.

I did however quote a snippet from the article, so it was saved here. Here you go.


From 2007-2015:

9 years
121 games
8114 offensive snaps

55 holding penalties

OL is flagged for holding every 219 snaps.

Alabama had zero holding penalties during 65% of their games.

Only 2 times during 121 games was Alabama flagged for holding while trailing on the scoreboard.


Interesting Breakdown:

9 games vs. Auburn ................. 2 holding penalties against OL.
6 games vs. Florida .................. 1
4 games vs. Georgia ................ 0
10 games vs. LSU .................... 3
9 games vs. Tennessee ............ 1
9 games vs. Ole Miss ............... 2

9 games vs. Arkansas .............. 6
Click to expand...

That's just the holding calls, which are obscene and unachievable themselves. Does not include the targeting etc.. or the following. The money is CG for fun. The play, ref and actions are very real.
Bama.gif
 
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#70
#70
chargervol said:
I no longer have the article, because I have a wife and kids on the same google account - have to have a history limit.

I did however quote a snippet from the article, so it was saved here. Here you go.


That's just the holding calls, which are obscene and unachievable themselves. Does not include the targeting etc.. or the following. The money is CG for fun. The play, ref and actions are very real.
View attachment 122213
Click to expand...

Thanks. Interesting to say the least
 
#71
#71
volfanngatorland said:
Thanks. Interesting to say the least
Click to expand...

I posted this on another thread, but will repeat here.
Alabama is by far the best in our conference, doesn't matter if it's because of talent OR coaching or the combination.

The money involved in modern college football gives every conference a reason to ensure the best team makes the playoffs for financial rewards to the entire conference.

It is not just the SEC. I glanced at the NC State Clemson thread, and someone posted there that at that moment, NC State had like 14 penalties, Clemson 0.

If you've watched these young guys play football long enough, you are as well aware as I am, that that's impossible, no matter how well coached.

It sucks, but it's reality. Every conference wants to be the headliner and reap all the TV money and rewards that come with it. And they don't mind to "assist" when necessary.
 
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#72
#72
chargervol said:
I posted this on another thread, but will repeat here.
Alabama is by far the best in our conference, doesn't matter if it's because of talent OR coaching or the combination.

The money involved in modern college football gives every conference a reason to ensure the best team makes the playoffs for financial rewards to the entire conference.

It is not just the SEC. I glanced at the NC State Clemson thread, and someone posted there that at that moment, NC State had like 14 penalties, Clemson 0.

If you've watched these young guys play football long enough, you are as well aware as I am, that that's impossible, no matter how well coached.

It sucks, but it's reality. Every conference wants to be the headliner and reap all the TV money and rewards that come with it. And they don't mind to "assist" when necessary.
Click to expand...

You are bringing great facts and truth to the thread today. Thanks. Another example was the Wisconsin/OSU game. If the WS team knew they were going to get hosed so bad they probably would not have bothered to give that much effort. Thankfully, OSU still managed to mess up the predetermined script yesterday.
 
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#73
#73
Vols4us said:
You are bringing great facts and truth to the thread today. Thanks. Another example was the Wisconsin/OSU game. If the WS team knew they were going to get hosed so bad they probably would not have bothered to give that much effort. Thankfully, OSU still managed to mess up the predetermined script yesterday.
Click to expand...

Thanks, I haven't seen any highlights from that game.
Sounds like I need to catch one of the replays.
It's definitely an epidemic that covers all conferences. The rule applies to very subject- "follow the money".
 
#74
#74
GwinnettVol21 said:
If stars and rankings mean so much I can't wait to see our QB play next year. Jarrett G was a 6.0 4 star, Jalen Hurts was only a 5.8 4 star. #3 dual threat qb vs #9 dual threat qb according to Rivals.

The biggest difference is coaching. How many coaches from Butch's staff have been offered other positions by other colleges? If our coaches could develop and coach guys up we would have constant coaching turnover like bama and Ohio state have. Instead we have a former swimming assistant as OC, an OL coach that most have been wanting out since year 2/3, a WR coach that didn't get a chance at OC when his buddy was hired on as Marylands head coach and a Grad Assistant for our QB's. Our players have managed to get them a couple wins over the past 4 years but if we want to beat the big boys we need coaches that can push and get the full potential out or these guys.
Click to expand...

Perfectly said

Kiffen will be a hot commodity after the season. Debord will remain thankful and call dumb plays to please the guy who saved him from cleaning pools.

Stars do matter. Add that with GREAT coaching and you get a dynasty like Alabama.
 
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#75
#75
cwbytruckers said:
Some of those 3 stars will get a bump more than likely. But we will not beat Bama in the next 5 years. Maybe 10. Unless we get an OLINE that can do their job. Defense isn't an issue if we can stay healthy.
Click to expand...

most of those 3 star boys had offers from Bama, Florida, etc., so, there were some good schools going after these kids...jus' sayin'

GO VOLS...BEAT COCKS!
 
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