If Republicans pride themselves on free thought and independence...

[KB5252]

I disagree. I think our CJ system is completely broken and needs to be scrapped and rebuilt. Race has little to do with justice, it’s money that makes the difference.

This..... This...... And this. It's not as much about race, and everything to do with dollars.

 

[KB5252]

And why do certain people on here continue to claim their "centrists" when clearly they are not?

Probably because very few are true centrists. People are typically either center right or left. And your perceptions sometime skew where you view others.

 

[RockyTop85]

I disagree. I think our CJ system is completely broken and needs to be scrapped and rebuilt. Race has little to do with justice, it’s money that makes the difference.

Then you’re not representative of either tendency on that issue, but I’m still confident that those are the respective tendencies of both sides.

You can go through the threads of any of the figures I listed and find people complaining about some routine trial procedure or insufficient protections for defendants, then go through the Durham indictments and find a lot of the same people taking the exact opposite position because the teams are reversed. Just about any other social media platform would show a book match on the left.

 

[825VOL]

Let’s all be honest. An individual’s experience in the CJ system is directly related to how much money they have. Years ago I would agreed with some of you that it was based on race. Now it is based on money. Both poor Blacks and poor Whites get f’d equally!

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Of course. There are many, many shades of gray on that issue. Conditions of pregnancy, timing, etc. Seems hard to believe that anyone would have an absolutist position on that issue.

The absolutist position should be that you don't abort 3 trimester pregnancies or babies that can be saved without having to chop them up and vaccum them out the womb...

 

[HammondB3Vol]

I disagree. I think our CJ system is completely broken and needs to be scrapped and rebuilt. Race has little to do with justice, it’s money that makes the difference.

Correct. Innocent til proven broke.

 

[ClearwaterVol]

And why do certain people on here continue to claim their "centrists" when clearly they are not?

Would you say that I am not a centrist?

I have a little test... let's talk about a few issues.

1. Immigration - I am not for open borders. I am also not for a wall because I think it is a gigantic waste of money. I am for a clear path to citizenship for those hardworking families that have been here for years and children who are citizens. I am for booting the criminals that get charged with serious crimes.

2. Gun Control - I am a gun owner and am generally in favor of gun rights as they currently exist. Restricting gun ownership in anyway that requires people to relinquish any firearms that are currently owned and legal is a fools errand. I do believe the background checks need to be more stringent.

3. Welfare Reform - By welfare, I mean all income based social programs. Food Stamps - Should be more like the WIC programs. You get staples not luxury items. Payments on welfare should be earned. We could set up day cares so that people could begin work without the issues of childcare bogging them down. Those day cares could be staffed by people on welfare who haven't yet found work. Payments should be tapered off when employment is found so that it isn't a situation that when a job is taken they are immediately worse off. More vocational training in this country. Stop rewarding people for having kids.

4. Abortion - Should be legal until viability. 20 weeksish sounds about right.

5. Death Penalty - I think there are some people that commit crimes so heinous they deserve die, but I believe the death penalty's uneven application and possibility of error leads me to believe it should be outlawed. I also tend to think that life in prison is a fate worse than death.

 

[BowlBrother85]

Why, then, the party purge of anyone who does not fall lockstep into the party groupthink?

The GOP more closely resembles a cult now, than it does a political party based on ideology, and focused on policy objectives. Their one and only criteria for membership, at the moment, is subservience and unconditional loyalty to an egotistical, wannabe authoritarian, named Donald Trump.

 

[BowlBrother85]

Let’s all be honest. An individual’s experience in the CJ system is directly related to how much money they have. Years ago I would agreed with some of you that it was based on race. Now it is based on money. Both poor Blacks and poor Whites get f’d equally!

This is accurate. Wealthy people do get convicted of crimes in this country, but the penalties for them are nowhere near comparable to poor people who have been convicted of the same offenses.

 

[AshG]

This is accurate. Wealthy people do get convicted of crimes in this country, but the penalties for them are nowhere near comparable to poor people who have been convicted of the same offenses.

I wonder why we don't go to percentage based penalties for fines. Set a baseline income level, then adjust upwards for higher brackets.

Speeding while in a low tax bracket might be a $200 ticket, same thing ramps up to $2000 above $100k income, etc

 

[PEPPERJAX]

I wonder why we don't go to percentage based penalties for fines. Set a baseline income level, then adjust upwards for higher brackets.

Speeding while in a low tax bracket might be a $200 ticket, same thing ramps up to $2000 above $100k income, etc

Should that be done with DUI fines too?

 

[Rickyvol77]

If I had wanted to talk about the DNC now I would have. I'm attempting targeted discussion, not long distance shotgunning.

One siding yet again instead of realizing both parties suffer from the same issues

 

[AshG]

Should that be done with DUI fines too?

That was just an example.

 

[AshG]

One siding yet again instead of realizing both parties suffer from the same issues

Keep reading.

I'm going to discuss the DNC later. Said as much.

Oy.

 

[OrangeTsar]

Why, then, the party purge of anyone who does not fall lockstep into the party groupthink? Wouldn't the nature of individual liberty extend to its own elevated members?

Senators Siena and Munchin have entered the chat……

 

[NCFisher]

Senators Siena and Munchin have entered the chat……

We know who you meant; pithy point.

 

[NCFisher]

If anything, the republican party is trying to purge those that have been in lockstep group think with the uniparty. I wouldn't think anyone would have a problem with having an opposition to the uniparty. That's how you get good government.

The most cogent post in the thread and just two upvotes....

The anti bureaucrat/uni-party/anti-establishment guy left the building in January, folks.

He single-handedly changed the GOP with an America First message. You almost could not find even grudging support for him as this list of enemies attest: List of Republicans who opposed the Donald Trump 2016 presidential campaign - Wikipedia and that's just the Republicans. Lindsay Graham - termed a tool of Trump by the left - didn't buy into the guy until well into his term, and he was not alone. He was going "to destroy the party"..."destroy democracy"..."totalitarian this, Hitler that"...

Hell, I didn't vote for him in 2016. He proved me wrong and everyone else. Given the bureaucratic state, media, never-Trumpers, DOJ/FBI/Intel aligned against him, it's remarkable he accomplished what he did. "But...but, he's not polished and he doesn't have nice breasts" - yeah, but he's just the kind of bad guy we needed. The guy was a workaholic beast who never governed from his basement.

So, I hear people say you don't want uni-party, but then you go right back to the girl with silicone implants and a latte.

 

[BowlBrother85]

The most cogent post in the thread and just two upvotes....

The anti bureaucrat/uni-party/anti-establishment guy left the building in January, folks.

He single-handedly changed the GOP with an America First message. You almost could not find even grudging support for him as this list of enemies attest: List of Republicans who opposed the Donald Trump 2016 presidential campaign - Wikipedia and that's just the Republicans. Lindsay Graham - termed a tool of Trump by the left - didn't buy into the guy until well into his term, and he was not alone. He was going "to destroy the party"..."destroy democracy"..."totalitarian this, Hitler that"...

Hell, I didn't vote for him in 2016. He proved me wrong and everyone else. Given the bureaucratic state, media, never-Trumpers, DOJ/FBI/Intel aligned against him, it's remarkable he accomplished what he did. "But...but, he's not polished and he doesn't have nice breasts" - yeah, but he's just the kind of bad guy we needed. The guy was a workaholic beast who never governed from his basement.

So, I hear people say you don't want uni-party, but then you go right back to the girl with silicone implants and a latte.

You are full of hot air and floating around in it. The guy played two rounds of golf every weekend, and spent as much time in Mar-a-Lago as he did the White House. He tweeted 10 times a day for the first 3 years and 11 months of his presidency and watched Fox News around the clock. "Workaholic beast" my a$$. That is out of touch with reality.

As far as achievements are concerned, he got very little passed. He mostly governed by way of executive orders, which were easily undone once he left office.

1) Was the Affordable Care Act repealed and replaced? No.

2) Trump pledged to have 1,000 miles of new border wall built. 453 miles were built and most of that was replacement for portions of the already existing wall, which had become dilapidated.... and Mexico didn't pay for a damn bit of it.

3) He pledged to get infrastructure projects started. Nothing was ever done toward that end.

4) When Trump took office in January of 2017, Republicans controlled both chambers of Congress by comfortable margins. Now, they control neither.

5) He completely mismanaged the response to COVID.

6) The National Debt grew by $7.8 trillion during his presidency. That was a 36% increase.

 

[AshG]

You are full of hot air and floating around in it. The guy played two rounds of golf every weekend, and spent as much time in Mar-a-Lago as he did the White House. He tweeted 10 times a day for the first 3 years and 11 months of his presidency and watched Fox News around the clock. "Workaholic beast" my a$$. That is out of touch with reality.

As far as achievements are concerned, he got very little passed. He mostly governed by way of executive orders, which were easily undone once he left office.

1) Was the Affordable Care Act repealed and replaced? No.

2) Trump pledged to have 1,000 miles of new border wall built. 453 miles were built and most of that was replacement for portions of the already existing wall, which had become dilapidated.... and Mexico didn't pay for a damn bit of it.

3) He pledged to get infrastructure projects started. Nothing was ever done toward that end.

4) When Trump took office in January of 2017, Republicans controlled both chambers of Congress by comfortable margins. Now, they control neither.

5) He completely mismanaged the response to COVID.

6) The National Debt grew by $7.8 trillion during his presidency. That was a 36% increase.

that's all fake news you have tds hurr durr

 

[volfanhill]

You are full of hot air and floating around in it. The guy played two rounds of golf every weekend, and spent as much time in Mar-a-Lago as he did the White House. He tweeted 10 times a day for the first 3 years and 11 months of his presidency and watched Fox News around the clock. "Workaholic beast" my a$$. That is out of touch with reality.

As far as achievements are concerned, he got very little passed. He mostly governed by way of executive orders, which were easily undone once he left office.

1) Was the Affordable Care Act repealed and replaced? No.

2) Trump pledged to have 1,000 miles of new border wall built. 453 miles were built and most of that was replacement for portions of the already existing wall, which had become dilapidated.... and Mexico didn't pay for a damn bit of it.

3) He pledged to get infrastructure projects started. Nothing was ever done toward that end.

4) When Trump took office in January of 2017, Republicans controlled both chambers of Congress by comfortable margins. Now, they control neither.

5) He completely mismanaged the response to COVID.

6) The National Debt grew by $7.8 trillion during his presidency. That was a 36% increase.

I agree with all of this but number 5. He deserves credit for the vax. And its intellectual bs that he doesn't get credit for it. And I hate the guy.

 

[Weezer]

More people need to realize both parties suck and stop pledging fealty to them.

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

Would you say that I am not a centrist?

I have a little test... let's talk about a few issues.

2. Gun Control - I am a gun owner and am generally in favor of gun rights as they currently exist. Restricting gun ownership in anyway that requires people to relinquish any firearms that are currently owned and legal is a fools errand. I do believe the background checks need to be more stringent.

I think that licensing gun owners is sufficient. In order to purchase guns from a dealer or be in public with a gun, YOU need to be licensed. Not the gun. The government doesn’t need to have a record of legal gun owners’ arsenals.

Convicted of certain crimes? No license can be issued and an existing license must be surrendered. In public armed and without a valid license, make the penalty severe. Get caught with a stolen gun, have SEVERE penalties.

Buying ammunition can be like buying tobacco or alcohol. Show your gun ownership license to the seller.

 

[NCFisher]

You are full of hot air and floating around in it. The guy played two rounds of golf every weekend, and spent as much time in Mar-a-Lago as he did the White House. He tweeted 10 times a day for the first 3 years and 11 months of his presidency and watched Fox News around the clock. "Workaholic beast" my a$$. That is out of touch with reality.

As far as achievements are concerned, he got very little passed. He mostly governed by way of executive orders, which were easily undone once he left office.

1) Was the Affordable Care Act repealed and replaced? No.

2) Trump pledged to have 1,000 miles of new border wall built. 453 miles were built and most of that was replacement for portions of the already existing wall, which had become dilapidated.... and Mexico didn't pay for a damn bit of it.

3) He pledged to get infrastructure projects started. Nothing was ever done toward that end.

4) When Trump took office in January of 2017, Republicans controlled both chambers of Congress by comfortable margins. Now, they control neither.

5) He completely mismanaged the response to COVID.

6) The National Debt grew by $7.8 trillion during his presidency. That was a 36% increase.

Said the Hindenburg....

You pick the pettiest things to contest. Trump's been a workaholic all his life. From staff to his biographer and presidential doctor; he gets 4-5 hours a night.

1) You do know Congress has to forward a bill to the executive, right? And that when Dems (including Thumbs McCain) regained Congress in 2018, this wasn't happening? It's not as though Trump made no effort.

2) See #1 (and you know that Mexican troops secured their Guatemalan border in an agreement with Trump, right? And Guatemala, El Salvador and Honduras. A plan that was working well until Biden terminated it? And that mid-terms killed any chance of additional wall funding?

3) See #1 & 2. Unlike 'remain in Mexico', the executive cannot EO an infrastructure bill. Trump's approach in the Feb. 2018 bill was to incentivize states, municipalities and industry with $200B to fund most of the ten-year $1.5B, thus encouraging 50 state laboratories to think outside DC technocrat mandates for solutions to THEIR problems. Between Dems wanting end-end federal control and both sides arguing over funding, it didn't move. The second plan in the 2020 SOTU was a more ambitious $2T, larger incentive and was subjected to the same squabbles; the pandemic officially killed it.

4) Enough people disliked Trump more than they loved their liberty. And you continue in these harangues to want to ignore a 100-year pandemic and a Dem created Russia narrative and the role it played. We'll touch base after mid-terms.

5) I've literally disproven every wild-eyed claim you've made, numerous times. You can refer to those posts or I can resurrect that thread @BowlBrother85 and do it all over again, if that's what you'd like. We know how Joe or Obama would have handled it from their own words and response to the swine flu (see Ron Klain). They'd have had discounted direct flights from Wuhan to not be racist, still insisting we listen to the CDC experts who flubbed the testing protocols, and waiting for FDA bureaucracy to allow a vax, sometime....

6) If you're looking to me to defend any level of congressional and presidential spending in my lifetime, hold your breath. That said, the percentage of debt increase was higher throughout Obama's terms than it was during Trump's: It shows the largest jump began in month 38 of Trump's term. See the interactive chart here: National Debt by President


Anything else?

 

[BowlBrother85]

Trump's been a workaholic all his life.

A workaholic does not spend all day tweeting and watching Fox News. A workaholic does not play 36 holes of golf every weekend. A workaholic does not take a vacation to a resort every month.

You do know Congress has to forward a bill to the executive, right? And that when Dems (including Thumbs McCain) regained Congress in 2018, this wasn't happening? It's not as though Trump made no effort.

Of course, and the President has to sign it, in order to make it law. He didn't have to sign those bills into law, but he did.

(and you know that Mexican troops secured their Guatemalan border in an agreement with Trump, right? And Guatemala, El Salvador and Honduras. A plan that was working well until Biden terminated it? And that mid-terms killed any chance of additional wall funding?

Trump said that Mexico was going to pay for the wall. Congress shouldn't have had to lift a finger, if a word of that was true.

 

[Gandalf]

This is a problem that permeates politics these days and marginalizes the middle. Most people from either party if they sat down and truly talked would find that they agreed on the vast majority of issues and could find common ground on even more. The problem is that outliers in both parties have ingrained this mentality of you are either with us or you are, not just wrong, but EVIL in the people. We need adults having adult conversations, but the power grab is all that many of these people care about.

On this, we truly agree. The funny thing is, that even if they were to sit down and find out that they did not agree on the issues, they could agree to work together on the ones that they did agree on and be civil on the others - most of the time (there are some few issues where that simply doesnt work).