If we EVER have another coach...

#51
#51
If's and But's........it's always If's and But's

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#53
#53
Volinnooga said:
At the time, it seemed ok to send Tajh elsewhere as Bray had potential. That was fair to Tajh. Problem is that one is a leader and one isn't.
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Kif sent Boyd packing long before bray was in the picture. In fact UT lost out on multiple prospects before Bray, who was actually better than all. Remember Barry Brunetti? (Sp?)
The deal with Boyd was a knee injury and the fact that he would not play his frosh year. And he didn't.
Kiffin really screwed up the program in more ways than many will ever comprehend.
 
#54
#54
Roustabout said:
Kif sent Boyd packing long before bray was in the picture. In fact UT lost out on multiple prospects before Bray, who was actually better than all. Remember Barry Brunetti? (Sp?)
The deal with Boyd was a knee injury and the fact that he would not play his frosh year. And he didn't.
Kiffin really screwed up the program in more ways than many will ever comprehend.
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This is possible, but telling Boyd he should look elsewhere wasn't one of them IMO. Boyd would have been a fish out of water in Chaney's pro-style offense. Boyd would likely have either rode the bench or been asked to convert to another position. Meanwhile, Kiffin resurrected Crompton's career and then signed Bray, who I still think could have been a phenomenal college QB if he didn't waste his career under the direction of one of the worst coaches of all time. If Dooley hadn't been such a complete disaster, the whole situation really could have been a win-win for both UT and Boyd.
 
#56
#56
wolfe said:
True,but he still wins. Unlike Fulmer,who was bad,and lost.
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I would personally put Fulmer and Miles is similar categories. Both have a National Championship under their belts despite their gameday coaching abilities. Both great recruiters. Both won a lot more than they lost. Fulmer had his Florida and Miles has his Alabama. But besides each nemesis both do/did pretty well against everybody else? Whose to say Miles won't have worn out his welcome if he makes it as long as Fulmer did?

Fulmer had run his course, but he won the only UT National Championship most of us were lucky enough to see. I'd say characterizing him as someone who "was bad, and lost" misses the mark.
 
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#59
#59
govolzgo said:
I would personally put Fulmer and Miles is similar categories. Both have a National Championship under their belts despite their gameday coaching abilities. Both great recruiters. Both won a lot more than they lost. Fulmer had his Florida and Miles has his Alabama. But besides each nemesis both do/did pretty well against everybody else? Whose to say Miles won't have worn out his welcome if he makes it as long as Fulmer did?

Fulmer had run his course, but he won the only UT National Championship most of us were lucky enough to see. I'd say characterizing him as someone who "was bad, and lost" misses the mark.
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I agree. My point was that Fulmer made bad in-game decisions and lost games. Miles seems to get away with it most of the time.
 
#60
#60
wolfe said:
Miles is still coaching,Fulmer is done,at least in the SEC.
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But your original statement was Miles wins and Fulmer was "bad and lost". I was simply showing you the facts that Fulmer has a higher win percentage than Miles. You are what your record says you are. I'm just tired of people coming on here and talking about Fulmer like he was a bad coach when the man coached us during the most exciting period of Tennessee football and is in the Hall of Fame. Sure he lost it a little at the end but during his heyday we were in the National discussion every year. Respect what he did instead of trying to say things like Les Miles wins more when the facts don't back that statement up.
 
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#62
#62
bleedorange0037 said:
This is possible, but telling Boyd he should look elsewhere wasn't one of them IMO. Boyd would have been a fish out of water in Chaney's pro-style offense. Boyd would likely have either rode the bench or been asked to convert to another position. Meanwhile, Kiffin resurrected Crompton's career and then signed Bray, who I still think could have been a phenomenal college QB if he didn't waste his career under the direction of one of the worst coaches of all time. If Dooley hadn't been such a complete disaster, the whole situation really could have been a win-win for both UT and Boyd.
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What r u talking about??? How can u bring Dooley into this conversation when he had no input on the Boyd decision. The guy got left 2 QBs that had barely been on campus when he arrived. Of course he's going to have difficulty from day 1. If kif had taken Boyd or maybe not run off the other 2 QBs on campus things most likely would have been different. Let's be a little more honest about it too...kif ran them all off cause he was also wanting to be in the position to tell the top QB recruits that they would play early and have no competition. Instead of leaving Stephens, Coleman and Boyd he left a transfer juco player and a 4* with potential that only had 2 other offers from small mid major teams. Also both were as new to campus as Dooley was. Talk about being behind the eight ball from day one. Maybe he should have opened a campus wide tryout for QBs like trying to find a kicker...yes sarcasm. :blink:

Brays big head and lack of want to grow has more to do with brays inability to grow as anything. Chaney is the coach that would be to blame for his development not as much on Dooley. The lack of competition at the QB position and his obvious west coast pompous attitude is more to blame than Dooley. But last time I checked all the bray defenders say it was the defenses fault and bray had great #s. Which is all true. Sooooo did he or did he not get developed well by the horrible coaching staff he played for??? It's known that the kid was making to many calls on his own on the field and hurt the gameplan the coaches wanted. Which IMHO hurts the team and changes the outcome of the game.

I just can't understand how people agree on the disaster that was the hammy/kiff experiment then accuse the guy that was brought in to stop the hemoraging of being a complete disaster, and actually took steps in the right direction. May not have won on the field but there is more to it than that when you look at the situation the program was in. Comments like these show the ignorance or lack of acceptance of how truly bad it was and what it actually takes to correct it. Just IMHO that's all...
 
#63
#63
Oskie Volum said:
What r u talking about??? How can u bring Dooley into this conversation when he had no input on the Boyd decision. The guy got left 2 QBs that had barely been on campus when he arrived. Of course he's going to have difficulty from day 1. If kif had taken Boyd or maybe not run off the other 2 QBs on campus things most likely would have been different. Let's be a little more honest about it too...kif ran them all off cause he was also wanting to be in the position to tell the top QB recruits that they would play early and have no competition. Instead of leaving Stephens, Coleman and Boyd he left a transfer juco player and a 4* with potential that only had 2 other offers from small mid major teams. Also both were as new to campus as Dooley was. Talk about being behind the eight ball from day one. Maybe he should have opened a campus wide tryout for QBs like trying to find a kicker...yes sarcasm. :blink:
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Because Dooley retained the same OC that his predecessor had hired. Most of Boyd's career at UT would have played out under the Dooley staff, and under the same OC who's system has no place for a QB like Boyd. Whether Kiffin, Dooley or somebody else was the HC, Chaney's offense needed a pro-style QB, not a QB like Boyd. He would have either sat on the bench, transferred, or switched positions. That's why it would have been a waste of both his time and ours for Kiffin to have done anything other than tell him it was in his best interest to explore some other options. He would have never played a down at QB as long as Chaney was OC.
 
#64
#64
bleedorange0037 said:
Because Dooley retained the same OC that his predecessor had hired. Most of Boyd's career at UT would have played out under the Dooley staff, and under the same OC who's system has no place for a QB like Boyd. Whether Kiffin, Dooley or somebody else was the HC, Chaney's offense needed a pro-style QB, not a QB like Boyd. He would have either sat on the bench, transferred, or switched positions. That's why it would have been a waste of both his time and ours for Kiffin to have done anything other than tell him it was in his best interest to explore some other options. He would have never played a down at QB as long as Chaney was OC.
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No way in the world u can say that. What Dooley wanted Chaney to do at the QB position is different than the direction Kif wanted. That's the difference. Remember Chaney had the likes of drew Bree's on his resume. A scrambling hard nose QB. Much like Boyd could have been used like. The difference in direction is also evident in the recruits Dooley went after. Worley was the best he could get after his first yr (solid pickup IMO) but look at Peterman who is a lot closer to a Taj Boyd than Bray is. Worley IMO is in the middle of the bray and Peterman in styles.

I'm sure if Dooley had Boyd as an option at QB he would have figured a way to use him. Just imagine how different things would have been if he had a competition between Coleman, Stephens, Simms, bray, Boyd in his first yr instead of just Simms and bray.

Also let's not forgot Dooley "had" to keep Chaney. I love how people like to forget the chaos that was Jan '10 in UT football history just so they can keep their blind misguided hatred on Dooley.
 
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#65
#65
Oskie Volum said:
No way in the world u can say that. What Dooley wanted Chaney to do at the QB position is different than the direction Kif wanted. That's the difference. Remember Chaney had the likes of drew Bree's on his resume. A scrambling hard nose QB. Much like Boyd could have been used like. The difference in direction is also evident in the recruits Dooley went after. Worley was the best he could get after his first yr (solid pickup IMO) but look at Peterman who is a lot closer to a Taj Boyd than Bray is. Worley IMO is in the middle of the bray and Peterman in styles.

I'm sure if Dooley had Boyd as an option at QB he would have figured a way to use him. Just imagine how different things would have been if he had a competition between Coleman, Stephens, Simms, bray, Boyd in his first yr instead of just Simms and bray.

Also let's not forgot Dooley "had" to keep Chaney. I love how people like to forget the chaos that was Jan '10 in UT football history just so they can keep their blind misguided hatred on Dooley.
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I agree that we might have been better off in 2010 with a little more competition at QB, Simms was a disaster, but LOL at the notion that all 5 of those guys would have ever been on the roster at the same time. In the current era with scholarship limitations, you simply have no business having 5 scholarship QB's on the roster, especially when only one is going to see significant game time.

I still disagree with you about Boyd though. I think he's just better suited in a non-traditional offense and wouldn't have ever seen the field as a QB as long as Chaney was the OC. I'm fine with them asking him to look elsewhere when they were looking to run a more structured pro-style offense as opposed to having an athletic QB running around and flying by the seat of his pants.
 
#66
#66
bleedorange0037 said:
I agree that we might have been better off in 2010 with a little more competition at QB, Simms was a disaster, but LOL at the notion that all 5 of those guys would have ever been on the roster at the same time. In the current era with scholarship limitations, you simply have no business having 5 scholarship QB's on the roster, especially when only one is going to see significant game time.

I still disagree with you about Boyd though. I think he's just better suited in a non-traditional offense and wouldn't have ever seen the field as a QB as long as Chaney was the OC. I'm fine with them asking him to look elsewhere when they were looking to run a more structured pro-style offense as opposed to having an athletic QB running around and flying by the seat of his pants.
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I agree that having all 5 on the team would have been tough. Which I actually meant to mention in some way. In my head I was thinking about if the Simms offer could have been dropped. Or maybe never even offered if kif wouldnt have dissemated our QB depth in his one yr here.

Don't get me wrong I'm as much of a pro-style old school UT style fan as anyone. Dooley/Chaney could have figured out a way to use him though so it wouldn't have been as bad of a career as you think for Boyd IMO. Not a fan of the running QB and honestly at the time was ok with dropping Boyd cause was happy that kif wasn't going in that direction offensively. But with that said looking back things would have been sooooo different under the Dooley era if he was on the squad or even if kiff didn't get rid of Coleman and/or Stephens. Having a lack of upperclassman competition IMO really hurt brays development more than anything. He obviously was not mature enough to take it on all on his own and took advantage of the rock that Dooley was behind at QB. Just all IMHO.
 
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#67
#67
PrattvilleVol said:
Boyd has the same arm strength as Bray with better feet and a much better head...and he doesn't quit.
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As far as prototypical QBs go... Bray is 6'4 while Boyd is probably 5'10 (I know he is listed at 6'1, but I have met him in person and he is noticably shorter than I am at just over 6'0). Kiffin was looking for a prototypical pro style QB, Tajh is not that.
 
#68
#68
govols74n said:
Yup, those 3 pass plays at the end were the worst calls that I have ever seen...
Miles lost this game single handedly.
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Les Miles is the best at trying to lose the game for his team, but he is too unlucky and usually still pulls the W out of his rear.... it's reverse psychology IMO
 
#69
#69
This Phillips kid from Kingsport is pretty good. How did he by-pass Knoxville and end up in Wisconsin? Just curious
 
#70
#70
govols74n said:
Yup, those 3 pass plays at the end were the worst calls that I have ever seen...
Miles lost this game single handedly.
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I think you should look at the 2 OCS. Miles doesn't call the plays. HE should have stepped in though; as Fulmer used to do and say--Run the Damn ball!

That said, if Mettenberger could complete a simple out, we wouldn't be talking.
 
#72
#72
bleedorange0037 said:
In college, there's no doubt that Boyd had the better career. With competent coaching, I'd be willing to bet Bray will end up being the most successful long term.
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I disagree; one of Bray's major problems was that he needed to go to a school whose coach had enough job security to bench him early when he started dispolaying his bad attitude. I think Chaney did fine coaching him up--it was the other nonfootball areas he needed help. It was a bad mix for both of them imo.
 
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