If we go 4 - 8 do we fire Butch? (merged)

#601
#601
Cartervol said:
No they're stuck with Butch, much the same way they were stuck with Dooley.. Butch is a better coach, should will do more with what talent Dooley brought in, wasn't much.. After year two and not much progress, fire Dave Hart. Jimmy butt Cheek should have already been gone.. Butch will get his 3 years and that's pretty much the end of story.. Tennessee needs talent and he's doing pretty good there.. Its going to take time.. Just don't lose to Vandy and the teams they're supposed to beat.. This thing has been run into the dirt and it's going to take time to get it back where we want it. Sucks, but that's where it's at..
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Damn Carter. Recommend you stay away from ledges/high places and have a friend remove all sharp objects from your residence. Just looking out for a fellow Vol.
 
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#602
#602
Burger said:
bud


You won't get far treating your workers like Dooley did. Don't you remember Charlie Coiner being thrown out there with only days to prepare because of the hip surgery. I remember that disaster. I started wanting the idiot gone after the Florida game. He didn't succeed in any big game. Throwing under the bus is my expression for what Dooley does.
According to Butch, he already has to fight to keep his assistants. Bajakian had SEC offers before he came here with Jones. Try landing a job after your offense is the reason why the 2011 team went 5-7. Chaney did a bad job in year one and two. His offense was extremely bad before this year. The baseball player who Fooley gave his first opportunity left for Nebraska. You don't take the same position at a lesser school unless there are other issues. If Wilcox liked working for Dooley, he wouldnt of left the SEC, especially if he wanted a head coaching job. Eric Russell, who was at La Tech, left for friggin Washington State. If youre having high staff turnover rate, it is extremely bad regardless of reason. Normal bosses had loyal employees, we saw the loyalty of Dooley's staffs. It was probably a multiple of factors, but they were unhappy here as they left.
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Sooooo u have no quotes or proof that Wilcox or any other person didn't like working for him or left because of that?? I asked u for proof, and not forum talk rumors, and u came up with nothing. I responded with 100% undeniable proof that Wilcox believes that Dooley is a good coach and that he believes people really don't have a clue of what the situation is like at UT. A true insiders view. All u can come up with is that "in ur opinion" he would not have left UT for the Wash job. All based on ur belief that Wash is a step down job. Nice. That's like saying someone would never leave Goldman Sachs to a smaller start up firm. Smh.

So u r blaming Dooley for throwing Coiner under the bus cause he had hip surgery and had him be the sideline coach??? Really??? That's pathetic. Dooley gave him a job to do and he didn't do well at it. So in ur opinion Dooley is an idiot cause he put that responsibility on him and it didn't turn out the way all had hoped in a special circumstance. Ok bud. Got it.

I love ur assumption that Chaney couldn't have gone anywhere at any pt. Another one of ur "if I were coach or AD I would/not do this/that moments". Just like u like to make up things and make assumptions I will too: If it was sooo bad to work for Dooley than IMO Chaney could have left and found something else. Simple now it's out on the Internet so must be true. "BonJour!"

I find it interesting when people like u feel that ur life is so perfect that u have the ability to refer to a guy like Dooley as an idiot or incompetent etc etc. If he's not a good boss that's one thing, but acting like u are so special u can refer to him as an idiot or a fool baffles me. A guy that u couldn't hold a candle to in regard to CFB, and someone that the top coach in the country refers to as a good friend. Oh yeah that same guy that people say is hard to work for but people still work for him. So ur whole pt about people wanting to work for someone that's hard to work for is just dumb. Those people just need time to find the right people that fit them. Not that difficult.
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#603
#603
1972 Grad said:
I own 3 different businesses. It is not quite as easy as it looks when the buck stops at your desk. Employees make you or break you. Dooley basically started from scratch again with employees in 2012. I guess that I look at it from Dooley's vantage point more than I do as a fan.
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I totally understand and agree. But we both know that sometimes u go through a couple hires that seem to fit on paper, but just don't. We always don't find that right person on the first go around. Sux but it happens.

It also gets me when people put the Sunsari hire totally on Dooley when everyone knows that there is a great possibility that that was pushed on him more than he was the guy Dooley wanted. The switch to the 3-4 was the kicker, but at the same time it was the best time to do it. High scoring offense should have covered the negatives on the D. It didn't and that's what truly ended up being his downfall. Heck it could be assumed if McCullers didn't sign with us he may have never made the switch and who knows where things would have gone this past year. Just crazy how people forget how they knew it was going to be a tough transition.
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#604
#604
Actually, Oskie, you came up with undeniable proof that Wilcox SAID Dooley was a good coach. Which is really helpful, because coaches never say things they don't believe or anything
 
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#605
#605
What's "just crazy" to me is how people forget the reaction they had when Dooley was hired, which was, "WHAT THE F***?" Then, they put on their orange glasses and started pretending like he's Nick Saban's prodigy that we were lucky to steal from LSU.

The guy was a loser at Louisiana Tech and he was a loser here. It's that simple.
 
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#606
#606
Oskie Volum said:
I totally understand and agree. But we both know that sometimes u go through a couple hires that seem to fit on paper, but just don't. We always don't find that right person on the first go around. Sux but it happens.

It also gets me when people put the Sunsari hire totally on Dooley when everyone knows that there is a great possibility that that was pushed on him more than he was the guy Dooley wanted. The switch to the 3-4 was the kicker, but at the same time it was the best time to do it. High scoring offense should have covered the negatives on the D. It didn't and that's what truly ended up being his downfall. Heck it could be assumed if McCullers didn't sign with us he may have never made the switch and who knows where things would have gone this past year. Just crazy how people forget how they knew it was going to be a tough transition.
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Interesting point from someone decrying forum rumors in their last post. How about something from news reports and his own mouth, to lay your tired forum rumor to rest:

Head coach Derek Dooley is determined that won't happen to his team again, which is why Tennessee will play a much more aggressive style of defense in 2012. Fans may have noticed defensive backs giving less cushion and playing tighter coverage in the Orange & White Game.

"That goes with the overall change in philosophy," Dooley said recently. "It's something we were going to go to no matter who the coordinator was."

Although 2010-11 defensive coordinator Justin Wilcox left of his own accord to take the same position at the University of Washington, Dooley was unhappy with Tennessee's inability to secure takeaways last fall. The 2011 Vols forced just 18 turnovers (9 fumbles, 9 interceptions), ranking 10th among the 12 SEC teams in that critical category.

One reason Dooley hired former Alabama linebackers coach Sal Sunseri as the new coordinator is his willingness to take some chances in order to force some mistakes.

"We weren't getting enough big plays, so I wanted us to be aggressive," Dooley said. "When I say we're going to play with more aggressiveness, it doesn't mean we're going to blitz every down. It just means we're going to get in their face, put our hands on 'em."
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#607
#607
Oskie Volum said:
Sooooo u have no quotes or proof that Wilcox or any other person didn't like working for him or left because of that?? I asked u for proof, and not forum talk rumors, and u came up with nothing. I responded with 100% undeniable proof that Wilcox believes that Dooley is a good coach and that he believes people really don't have a clue of what the situation is like at UT. A true insiders view. All u can come up with is that "in ur opinion" he would not have left UT for the Wash job. All based on ur belief that Wash is a step down job. Nice. That's like saying someone would never leave Goldman Sachs to a smaller start up firm. Smh.

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Oskie Volum said:
I totally understand and agree. But we both know that sometimes u go through a couple hires that seem to fit on paper, but just don't. We always don't find that right person on the first go around. Sux but it happens.

It also gets me when people put the Sunsari hire totally on Dooley when everyone knows that there is a great possibility that that was pushed on him more than he was the guy Dooley wanted. The switch to the 3-4 was the kicker, but at the same time it was the best time to do it. High scoring offense should have covered the negatives on the D. It didn't and that's what truly ended up being his downfall. Heck it could be assumed if McCullers didn't sign with us he may have never made the switch and who knows where things would have gone this past year. Just crazy how people forget how they knew it was going to be a tough transition.
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By the way, in case you missed it in my last post, your logic is selectively inconsistent and contrived.

Top o' the morning to you.

:hi:
 
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#608
#608
Shameless Bump.

But after the last two coaching performances, and seeing clearly that Butch is doing OJT at Tennessee (third coach in a row), I might revise the tongue-in-cheek.
 
#609
#609
Eddie Vol Halen said:
Tennessee has never lost 8 games in a season. Some think this is not outside the realm of possibility in Coach Butch Jones's first year at the helm.

Do we fire Butch if he loses 8?

My personal feelings are he would have to be eating Dooley Wacky Bambacky to lose 8.

If we do lose 8 next year though, I think it is grounds to fire Hart (might as well include Cheek while we're at it), and the next's guys first job is to line up the next guy. CBJ have to win something special in Y2 to carry-on.

We let Dooley carry-on after the KY loss, and I think we all agree it was a huge, huge mistake.
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I never would have thought we would come close to losing 8 this year. I'm trying to temper my disappointment with CBJ because he had me believing.

Firing Hart and Cheek though still sounds like a plan.
 
#610
#610
I think starting threads regarding firing a first year coach that has the recruiting class he has coming is beyond retarded.
 
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#611
#611
Eddie Vol Halen said:
I never would have thought we would come close to losing 8 this year. I'm trying to temper my disappointment with CBJ because he had me believing.

Firing Hart and Cheek though still sounds like a plan.
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Take a look at Hart for one min. He's 65 yo. He's an alum from a heated rival. He's obviously at his last stop and thus is not trying to make a name for himself. So, what motivation does he have for trying to make UT a football power again? His boss only cares about athletics to the end of what kind of $$$ he can extort from the AD. Until the UT board gets serious about athletics, expect the same results.

It's a numbers thing. As long as the books balance, nothing will change. The UT fan base seems content to keep buying tickets, donating, buying merchandise at a clip that turns a modest profit so what is the motivation for real change.
 
#612
#612
We're pretty much stuck with Jones for the foreseeable future. You can't let him go after just 1 year. Too much money invested at this point.

On the other hand...

Hart has been here 2.5 years. In his tenure, we have had 3 losing seasons in football. Never made the NCAA tournament in men's basketball. And never made the postseason in baseball. How much longer should this guy have, before he no longer gets to blame what he inherited, and has to take responsibility for the worst performance in UT athletics history?
 
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#613
#613
oregonvol said:
We're pretty much stuck with Jones for the foreseeable future. You can't let him go after just 1 year. Too much money invested at this point.

On the other hand...

Hart has been here 2.5 years. In his tenure, we have had 3 losing seasons in football. Never made the NCAA tournament in men's basketball. And never made the postseason in baseball. How much longer should this guy have, before he no longer gets to blame what he inherited, and has to take responsibility for the worst performance in UT athletics history?
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For somebody that was brought in to Right the Ship, He ain't cutting it.

His Departure would be highly dependent on Booster non Support and revenue brought to the Campus, this hire will also play into it down the road.
 
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#614
#614
InVOLuntary said:
Take a look at Hart for one min. He's 65 yo. He's an alum from a heated rival. He's obviously at his last stop and thus is not trying to make a name for himself. So, what motivation does he have for trying to make UT a football power again? His boss only cares about athletics to the end of what kind of $$$ he can extort from the AD. Until the UT board gets serious about athletics, expect the same results.

It's a numbers thing. As long as the books balance, nothing will change. The UT fan base seems content to keep buying tickets, donating, buying merchandise at a clip that turns a modest profit so what is the motivation for real change.
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Yeah, we can't have coaches or ADs from rival schools. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doug_Dickey
 
#615
#615
oregonvol said:
We're pretty much stuck with Jones for the foreseeable future. You can't let him go after just 1 year. Too much money invested at this point.

On the other hand...

Hart has been here 2.5 years. In his tenure, we have had 3 losing seasons in football. Never made the NCAA tournament in men's basketball. And never made the postseason in baseball. How much longer should this guy have, before he no longer gets to blame what he inherited, and has to take responsibility for the worst performance in UT athletics history?
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hart and cheek should be gone.
 
#616
#616
Eddie Vol Halen said:
I never would have thought we would come close to losing 8 this year. I'm trying to temper my disappointment with CBJ because he had me believing.

Firing Hart and Cheek though still sounds like a plan.
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When you posted that, everyone thought Auburn & Mizzou would suck as opposed to be top ten teams too. Even if he goes 4-8 (don't think they lose this week), it could have been worse.

oregonvol said:
We're pretty much stuck with Jones for the foreseeable future. You can't let him go after just 1 year. Too much money invested at this point.

On the other hand...

Hart has been here 2.5 years. In his tenure, we have had 3 losing seasons in football. Never made the NCAA tournament in men's basketball. And never made the postseason in baseball. How much longer should this guy have, before he no longer gets to blame what he inherited, and has to take responsibility for the worst performance in UT athletics history?
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To be fair to Hart, he did replace one of the worst athletic directors of all-time in Mike Hamilton.
 
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#617
#617
So if the coach is fired who are we hiring?












Go ahead I am waiting...












Oh yeah. No one any better. Give me a damn break. CBJ is the man. Give him 3 years.
 
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#619
#619
That would set us back at least w2 years, have many players jump ship and literally no coach would wanna come here if they could get fired after 1 year. Get real.
 
#621
#621
spikesglaring said:
To be fair to Hart, he did replace one of the worst athletic directors of all-time in Mike Hamilton.
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And yet that "worst of all time" AD oversaw just as many losing football seasons over his entire tenure, as Hart has in 2.5 years. At some point, Hart has to bear responsibility for what is going on.
 
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#622
#622
I think we should give CBJ at least four years so we can actually have a recruiting class graduate under the coach that recruited them. It's been to long since that happened at UT.
 
#625
#625
Eddie Vol Halen said:
Tennessee has never lost 8 games in a season. Some think this is not outside the realm of possibility in Coach Butch Jones's first year at the helm.

Do we fire Butch if he loses 8?

My personal feelings are he would have to be eating Dooley Wacky Bambacky to lose 8.

If we do lose 8 next year though, I think it is grounds to fire Hart (might as well include Cheek while we're at it), and the next's guys first job is to line up the next guy. CBJ have to win something special in Y2 to carry-on.

We let Dooley carry-on after the KY loss, and I think we all agree it was a huge, huge mistake.
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JEEEEEZ!

Yeah lets go through ANOTHER Coaching search after one season and just take a big dump on the #2 recruiting class in the country! SMDH! :no:



.
 
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