I'll ask: The pink elephant in the room.....

#326
#326
therealUT said:
You do realize that GWB's first NSC meeting regarding the response to 9/11 was not until September 15, 2001, right? That would mean that GWB slept on it, without even having a meeting regarding what to do, for four nights. After the meeting, we did not strike Afghanistan until October 7, 2001, when we attacked with cruise missiles and bombs.

Problem with these facts is that they seem to destroy your ludicrous ad hominem argument.
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I'm not entirely sure those are particularly useful comparisons.

OTOH what constituted this 16 hour "wait"? If it was really a question of the Seals sitting in the chopper and everybody just standing around waiting for BO to make poo or get off the pot then that's an awfully long time.

I think your other post listing things that would need to be taken into consideration was a good one.
 
#327
#327
volfanjustin said:
You all want all Americans to sit and worship him for making such a great, gutsy call to kill the worlds most hated person. Whoaaaaa, Barry said yes to killing the worlds most wanted terrorist. What a hero. I don't give a damn what you think what I know about Reagan, let's get that clear right now. I love how you all always say "Reagan rolls over in his grave when you all use his name" When your side always hated and trashed the man. I can say real leaders like Reagan and Bush would have made the call, they would not have said "let me sleep on it" while the military is waiting.
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LOL

Your side????

You know nothing about me, little boy. I don't belong to a side. I am an American, so I am on America's side. And I have never trashed the character of Reagan

Typical divisive post from you and completely uninformed to match. You do realize your attitude is being admonished not by just Dems, but Republicans as well

You don't know what I want as far as anything goes. Best thing for you to do is drink a huge cup of S-T-F-U before your hole gets too big to crawl out of
 
#328
#328
therealUT said:
60% of the time, its bin Laden everytime.
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You don't understand. We're speaking in hindsight, so we can NOW say we knew for sure, despite the long history of thinking we had found him and turning out to have not, and the fact that intelligence of this nature rarely if ever would speak in absolutes since the condition is always subject to change in a moment. Like if Bin Laden decided to step out and go down to the disco.
 
#330
#330
shortgameVol said:
LOL

Your side????

You know nothing about me, little boy. I don't belong to a side. I am an American, so I am on America's side. And I have never trashed the character of Reagan

Typical divisive post from you and completely uninformed to match. You do realize your attitude is being admonished not by just Dems, but Republicans as well

You don't know what I want as far as anything goes. Best thing for you to do is drink a huge cup of S-T-F-U before your hole gets too big to crawl out of
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Haha, I am not a Republican so I could careless what a Rep. says about me. Sounds like you are getting a little upset, hahaha. Thin skinned bleeding heart.

And don't really give a damn to either, if I can be honest.
 
#331
#331
volfanjustin said:
Haha, I am not a Republican so I could careless what a Rep. says about me. Sounds like you are getting a little upset, hahaha. Thin skinned bleeding heart.

And don't really give a damn to either, if I can be honest.
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I'm not angry, little boy. I'm more amused at your simplistic take on this issue. Not surprising you wouldn't have the first clue

I'm sorry I labeled you a Republican. I wasn't thinking. It is perfectly clear you are member of the fascist party:eek:hmy:
 
#334
#334
shortgameVol said:
I'm not angry, little boy. I'm more amused at your simplistic take on this issue. Not surprising you wouldn't have the first clue

I'm sorry I labeled you a Republican. I wasn't thinking. It is perfectly clear you are member of the fascist party:eek:hmy:
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Darn you caught me, I am a fascist because I give the credit to the guys that actually gathered the intel to kill him and that actually went in the compound and killed him rather than praise the one for sleeping on it and eventually saying yes to killing the worlds most wanted terrorist.
 
#335
#335
therealUT said:
I presume that you have not read Decision Points. These decisions are not as simple as you would like to believe they are in your make believe world. Things to consider:

  1. Probability that bin Laden was in the compound. This was not certain; in fact, it was far from it. The CIA could only state with certainty that it was more than likely that an HVT resided in the compound: 60-80% it could be bin Laden.
  2. The compound was located within Pakistan, a sovereign nation that we are not at war with. I imagine that Obama made sure that his cabinet and their attorneys understood the legal ramifications of this action, should anything go wrong.
  3. The compound was located in close proximity to a Pakistani Military Base; seeing as how we were not going to tip-off Pakistan about the raid, what happens if those military forces respond aggressively to our presence? Is there a contingency plan? What is that contingency plan? Do we have QRFs ready to respond? What is the disposition and strength of the QRF?
  4. What do we do if the compound is rigged as an HBIED? Do we have statements prepared for that contingency? How does the QRF respond in that situation?
  5. What do we do if bin Laden is in the compound? What are the pros and cons of taking him alive? What are the pros and cons of killing him? Which directive do we give? How do we couch that directive in terms that are legal?
I am quite sure that this is only the starting point for all the considerations of these decisions. I am also sure that "sleep on it" also means that the staff and the cabinet secretaries would be researching and presenting answers to these questions throughout the night in order to brief the POTUS first thing in the morning.

If you have ever been a part of an MDMP, you would understand that the contingencies and the various details that must be addressed are countless and everything works off of assumptions.
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volfanjustin said:
Darn you caught me, I am a fascist because I give the credit to the guys that actually gathered the intel to kill him and that actually went in the compound and killed him rather than praise the one for sleeping on it and eventually saying yes to killing the worlds most wanted terrorist.
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I like how you avoid responding to certain points; it certainly keeps you from getting tripped up in the details of your erroneous arguments.

You may be dumb, but you aren't stupid...right?
 
#336
#336
volfanjustin said:
Darn you caught me, I am a fascist because I give the credit to the guys that actually gathered the intel to kill him and that actually went in the compound and killed him rather than praise the one for sleeping on it and eventually saying yes to killing the worlds most wanted terrorist.
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Once again, no one is asking you to praise or worship Obama. No one has even hinted at it.

It's apparent you won't ever get it anytime soon. Maybe one day :crossfingers:
 
#339
#339
therealUT said:
I like how you avoid responding to certain points; it certainly keeps you from getting tripped up in the details of your erroneous arguments.

You may be dumb, but you aren't stupid...right?
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They practiced invading that compound a couple of times and they have known for months that he was probably in there. It's not like they just learned Friday that he may live in this compound. So if they did not consider these issues until Saturday or Sunday they are more incompetent than I thought.

It's hard to keep up with all the responses from you and your liberal friends. It's hard to respond to all of them.
 
#341
#341
IPorange said:
I joked with someone about this a couple of days ago, and now it's real... Unbelievable.
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Your jokes are ruining the world, apparently. Go beat your dog.

That, or at least tell a joke about how I win the lottery, spend it on strippers and booze, and just piss away the rest.
 
#342
#342
volfanjustin said:
Darn you caught me, I am a fascist because I give the credit to the guys that actually gathered the intel to kill him and that actually went in the compound and killed him rather than praise the one for sleeping on it and eventually saying yes to killing the worlds most wanted terrorist.
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You really diminish the effectiveness of your point when you misstate the facts to that degree. From all reports, Obama played a significant role and made many more decisions than just, "yes, go get him."

Why not just say good job Obama, we underestimated you on foreign policy and specifically your resolve on national security, now let's talk about the economy and the budget...

People were in the streets holding spontaneous celebrations at this news. Crowds at ball games started chanting "USA! USA!" Seems like you're unlikely to get a lot of political mileage out of trying to dumb it down like this.
 
#343
#343
volfanjustin said:
They practiced invading that compound a couple of times and they have known for months that he was probably in there. It's not like they just learned Friday that he may live in this compound. So if they did not consider these issues until Saturday or Sunday they are more incompetent than I thought.

It's hard to keep up with all the responses from you and your liberal friends. It's hard to respond to all of them.
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And, there are still plenty of contingencies, such as the ones that were listed, that must be dealt with at the policy level, in matters such as these, and reinforced up to the final moments of the decision making process.

Of course, I will leave the higher level MDMP stuff to others, as you certainly have not shown the intellectual capacity to handle it. I will however, point you in the direction to understand the basics.

Start with understanding the 1/3 2/3 principle and then move on to understanding the 8 Troop Leading Procedures.

Next week, we will discuss CONOPs. Maybe in a month you will be ready for OPORDS and FRAGOs.
 
#344
#344
lawgator1 said:
You really diminish the effectiveness of your point when you misstate the facts to that degree. From all reports, Obama played a significant role and made many more decisions than just, "yes, go get him."

Why not just say good job Obama, we underestimated you on foreign policy and specifically your resolve on national security, now let's talk about the economy and the budget...

People were in the streets holding spontaneous celebrations at this news. Crowds at ball games started chanting "USA! USA!" Seems like you're unlikely to get a lot of political mileage out of trying to dumb it down like this.
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It was a great day for America and the word. I give credit where I see fit, I don't see where he did anything that deserves any. Would any president say "no" don't kill him? I choose to praise the brave guys who captured KSM, who water boarded this info out of him and who dropped out of that chopper in the area of that compound and went in there and took him out.

It was you who asked what does this mean for 2012.

Political mileage? You mean like going to a place where you have not been since elected president? Is that political mileage?
 
#345
#345
TXVOL07 said:
Those in the know will chalk it up as an American Victory divided by two President's tenure.

Those who are less informed and ignorant enough to refute factual evidence will undoubtedly proclaim Obama is the sole reason Osama Bin Laden is dead.

Its about as positive a political situation as he's gonna get.
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he did pretty much save the american auto industry.
 
#346
#346
volfanjustin said:
It was a great day for America and the word. I give credit where I see fit, I don't see where he did anything that deserves any. Would any president say "no" don't kill him? I choose to praise the brave guys who captured KSM, who water boarded this info out of him and who dropped out of that chopper in the area of that compound and went in there and took him out.

It was you who asked what does this mean for 2012.

Political mileage? You mean like going to a place where you have not been since elected president? Is that political mileage?
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:birgits_giggle:
You're lost
 
#348
#348
lawgator1 said:
People were in the streets holding spontaneous celebrations at this news. Crowds at ball games started chanting "USA! USA!" Seems like you're unlikely to get a lot of political mileage out of trying to dumb it down like this.
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We are a result-oriented society and always will be. Taking the avenue of cheapening this will not work.

Obama has plenty of poor results for the opposition to focus on. They'd be best served by giving him his due (but not any more than that) for this event, and moving on.
 
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