Illegal drugs or prescription drugs: Which is the bigger menace to the US of A?

#4
#4
Dr Drew was on Bill Maher the other night, and they both made a good point that if you look at most of the old rockers that just stuck to street drugs, like Keith Richards, Motley Crue, they tend to still be alive. The ones who got mixed up with pharmaceuticals so far have kicked the bucket with a quickness. Michael, Ann Nicole Smith, Whitney, etc.
 
#5
#5
IMO it stems back to the notion that doctors are way overincentivized to scratch out a prescription, combined with pharmaceutical marketing at insane levels have led people in the US to make pills far more commonplace than they should be. And now we've got addicts in numbers that absolutely dwarf heroin, meth, crack, etc. combined.
 
#7
#7
Pain pill addiction is killing this country and costing insurances and companies that pay employee insurance billions of dollars. I see patients that get hurt at work, get hooked on pills, and never go back. Guess who foots the bill for their "disability" and who foots the bill if they end up going to rehab.
 
#8
#8
Spartacavolus said:
Pain pill addiction is killing this country and costing insurances and companies that pay employee insurance billions of dollars. I see patients that get hurt at work, get hooked on pills, and never go back. Guess who foots the bill for their "disability" and who foots the bill if they end up going to rehab.
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Hey, look at the upside, at least we get pill ads everywhere and doctors get treated to very nice perks.
 
#9
#9
milohimself said:
IMO it stems back to the notion that doctors are way overincentivized to scratch out a prescription, combined with pharmaceutical marketing at insane levels have led people in the US to make pills far more commonplace than they should be. And now we've got addicts in numbers that absolutely dwarf heroin, meth, crack, etc. combined.
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IMO, this country is over-prescribed medications ranging from anti-biotics for cold symptoms all the way up to pills for "depression". Not to mention the stuff in between like heart, blood pressure and other ailments that could probably be solved with a simple exercise routine.
 
#10
#10
Rasputin_Vol said:
IMO, this country is over-prescribed medications ranging from anti-biotics for cold symptoms all the way up to pills for "depression". Not to mention the stuff in between like heart, blood pressure and other ailments that could probably be solved with a simple exercise routine.
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My mom has been a manic depressant since I was @ 10. She is 77 now and has been on the same anti depressants for many, many years, which have done nothing except make her accept her depression. It's a good day if she gets dressed.
 
#11
#11
Rasputin_Vol said:
IMO, this country is over-prescribed medications ranging from anti-biotics for cold symptoms all the way up to pills for "depression". Not to mention the stuff in between like heart, blood pressure and other ailments that could probably be solved with a simple exercise routine.
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That's what I'm on about. I came to the conclusion reading the works of Masanobu Fukuoka. Granted, his works are about farming, but his philosophy, which I find translates to a number of areas in life (and I thought you libertarians might like this), is something like "Instead of asking myself what else I should be doing, I ask myself what I am doing that I shouldn't be?"

What are the effects of the drugs that we take regularly to cure our ailments? Why do we need them, moreover, is that condition something that can be mended without a pill?

Unfortunately, marketing culture and big pharma having a strong influence on the way many doctors practice medicine both like the idea that taking a pill will fix it.
 
#12
#12
I think we are forgetting that prescription drugs do save lives. Sure they are abused and over prescribed but net/net they are a big positive.
 
#14
#14
volinbham said:
I think we are forgetting that prescription drugs do save lives. Sure they are abused and over prescribed but net/net they are a big positive.
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I agree. But it seems that far too often, we are over-prescribed for ailments that could probably be treated by other methods.
 
#15
#15
volinbham said:
I think we are forgetting that prescription drugs do save lives. Sure they are abused and over prescribed but net/net they are a big positive.
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Actually, looking at a very large picture, I think the net is a negative.

Yes, they cure many things that we haven't been otherwise able to do. But they have also played a big, big part in fostering a culture that says "It's okay, there's a pill for that" instead of getting people to actually think about what's wrong, and fix it.

If you're too fat, you probably don't need statins, you probably just need to get your ass on a treadmill and cut back on the meat and sweets.

If you're depressed, you might very well be able to work things out with a counselor and family or friends instead of taking MAOI's.

So on and so forth. It's created this world where people don't screw up, there's just that extra something (to throw money at) they're not doing.

But, I think I recognize why this occurs. For one, it's a much more lucrative way to think about things, and two, it allows people to deflect blame and fix anything that there's a pill for.
 
#16
#16
I think opiates is the bigger menace in my area.
I agree with volinbham they do say lives, however, we now have doctors that are no more than pill pushers. There are some doctors in my hometown that basically see pill heads. They will write a prescription for 90-180 pain pills with no refills. The pill head goes back in 30 days and gets another prescription. I think the docs are charging $100-150 per office visit. They can write a bunch of scripts in a month and know it is repeat business.
 
#17
#17
The black market compounds the societal costs of illegal drugs, so I'd say illegal drugs are the bigger problem.

If you're asking me to choose a safer drug, Oxy (railing it) or heroin (smoking it)....I honestly don't know.
 
#18
#18
milohimself said:
That's what I'm on about. I came to the conclusion reading the works of Masanobu Fukuoka. Granted, his works are about farming, but his philosophy, which I find translates to a number of areas in life (and I thought you libertarians might like this), is something like "Instead of asking myself what else I should be doing, I ask myself what I am doing that I shouldn't be?"

What are the effects of the drugs that we take regularly to cure our ailments? Why do we need them, moreover, is that condition something that can be mended without a pill?

Unfortunately, marketing culture and big pharma having a strong influence on the way many doctors practice medicine both like the idea that taking a pill will fix it.
Click to expand...

Nice
 
#19
#19
prescription drugs will at least come with a warning label, illegal drugs will come with a recommendation, "you gotta try this sh*t man!!".
 
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#20
#20
milohimself said:
Actually, looking at a very large picture, I think the net is a negative.

Yes, they cure many things that we haven't been otherwise able to do. But they have also played a big, big part in fostering a culture that says "It's okay, there's a pill for that" instead of getting people to actually think about what's wrong, and fix it.

If you're too fat, you probably don't need statins, you probably just need to get your ass on a treadmill and cut back on the meat and sweets.

If you're depressed, you might very well be able to work things out with a counselor and family or friends instead of taking MAOI's.

So on and so forth. It's created this world where people don't screw up, there's just that extra something (to throw money at) they're not doing.

But, I think I recognize why this occurs. For one, it's a much more lucrative way to think about things, and two, it allows people to deflect blame and fix anything that there's a pill for.
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Okay then cars have made people fat, TV has made people fat, etc. etc. etc.

If they are a net negative then do you think we'd be better off without them?
 
#21
#21
Gramps said:
I think opiates is the bigger menace in my area.
I agree with volinbham they do say lives, however, we now have doctors that are no more than pill pushers. There are some doctors in my hometown that basically see pill heads. They will write a prescription for 90-180 pain pills with no refills. The pill head goes back in 30 days and gets another prescription. I think the docs are charging $100-150 per office visit. They can write a bunch of scripts in a month and know it is repeat business.
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Medicare mills. Most are pain clinics. I'm in the medical business and most pain clinics and doctors are quacks. I put together a presentation a few years ago that would give them the ability to stop filling so many scripts with pills and give patients other avenues to try and get better. Their head pharmacist chimed in quickly and said, "why would we want to do that?". I left soon thereafter. Their existence is having the same patients come in to have the same procedures, get the same tests, and get the same meds monthly. Then they bill the government a fee that is coded for reimbursement for each item. They were buying $50 TENS units, prescribing for every patient, and getting @ $500 back for each one, not including pills scripted, tests, etc.
 
#22
#22
volinbham said:
Okay then cars have made people fat, TV has made people fat, etc. etc. etc.

If they are a net negative then do you think we'd be better off without them?
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No, I think we'd be better off in an environment where doctors tend to prescribe appropriately, and people in turn used them more appropriately.

I think the problem will be alleviated as we're seeing health care gradually move away from a fee for service system.
 
#23
#23
Spartacavolus said:
Medicare mills. Most are pain clinics. I'm in the medical business and most pain clinics and doctors are quacks. I put together a presentation a few years ago that would give them the ability to stop filling so many scripts with pills and give patients other avenues to try and get better. Their head pharmacist chimed in quickly and said, "why would we want to do that?". I left soon thereafter. Their existence is having the same patients come in to have the same procedures, get the same tests, and get the same meds monthly. Then they bill the government a fee that is coded for reimbursement for each item. They were buying $50 TENS units, prescribing for every patient, and getting @ $500 back for each one, not including pills scripted, tests, etc.
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This is the crap I'm talking about.
 
#25
#25
milohimself said:
Unfortunately, marketing culture and big pharma having a strong influence on the way many doctors practice medicine both like the idea that taking a pill will fix it.
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Man, you ain't kidding. A lot of those commercials are very effective at what they're trying to do. Those Valtrax commercials make herpes look quite enjoyable.

Since most pain pills are opiates I put them into the same hard drug class of heroin and the like. Just because they're behind a counter and a dude in a white coat gives them to you doesn't mean they're not just as deadly or addictive. It actually legitimizes them to a lot of folks.
 
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