Inflation Reduction Act

#476
#476
BigOrangeMojo said:
TCJA barely moved the needle on rates if you were a poor or middle class wage earner. Let's not kid what it was: it was a Corporate and upper income tax cut with a marginal rate decrease for red state middle class taxpayers to get it through reconciliation. I'm not saying it was bad because if you were invested in the stock market, you did very well....
Click to expand...
The ones that took a hit were from high tax states that had a hefty state income and property tax rate and their federal income tax deduction got limited to $10k. Red state recipients came out smelling like a rose because we didn't pay NJ/NY/CA taxes and made less overall.
 
  • Like
Reactions: marcusluvsvols, SpaceCoastVol and BigOrangeMojo
#477
#477
SpaceCoastVol said:
I heard the other day that the US federal government employs more people than the populations of over 100 countries on earth.

And just think, that is 87,000 more lifetime pensions/health care that will be funded by you... Those are always funded, and will never be taken away.
Click to expand...
And you had to go and remind me...
 
  • Like
Reactions: StarRaider
#478
#478
VolStrom said:
The ones that took a hit were from high tax states that had a hefty state income and property tax rate and their federal income tax deduction got limited to $10k. Red state recipients came out smelling like a rose because we didn't pay NJ/NY/CA taxes and made less overall.
Click to expand...

Yes, TN did better than literally any other state but once again, the individual income tax savings were minimal for most citizens.

Unless your income was in the top 10%, you saw less than a 2% reduction in taxes due to TCJA on average. If someone in the middle class did not receive a TCJA bonus or was not invested in a 401k, it could be argued they are worse off now due to TCJA's impact on inflation...

Now if you were invested in a 401k plan, TCJA helped you out due to rising stock prices from the corporate rate cut.
 
#479
#479
Back on topic, this law is extremely poorly written. Typically, firms like the AICPA or large accounting firms are given advance drafts to point out any huge errors. In the rush to pass this bill, that wasn't done here. Expect technical corrections for years or until repealed...
 
  • Like
Reactions: marcusluvsvols, Vol since 77 and Orangeslice13
#481
#481
VolStrom said:
The ones that took a hit were from high tax states that had a hefty state income and property tax rate and their federal income tax deduction got limited to $10k. Red state recipients came out smelling like a rose because we didn't pay NJ/NY/CA taxes and made less overall.
Click to expand...
That was the best thing DJT with regard to taxes. Why should anyone get a discount on their federal bill just because they pay taxes that stay in their state of residence? You choose to live in Cali... you pay for that ****. I live in Florida. I shouldn't be paying more than my fair share of the FEDERAL bill just because you want to live in LA.
 
  • Like
Reactions: marcusluvsvols, Vol since 77, VolStrom and 1 other person
#482
#482
SpaceCoastVol said:
That was the best thing DJT with regard to taxes. Why should anyone get a discount on their federal bill just because they pay taxes that stay in their state of residence? You choose to live in Cali... you pay for that ****. I live in Florida. I shouldn't be paying more than my fair share of the FEDERAL bill just because you want to live in LA.
Click to expand...

I agree here. A Tennessee resident shouldn't subsidize New York taxation...
 
  • Like
Reactions: marcusluvsvols, Orangeslice13 and SpaceCoastVol
#484
#484
85SugarVol said:
Do we?
Click to expand...

There's two separate questions here.

1. Does New York, in aggregate, subsidize government assistance and EITC, in states where higher percentage of population (such as TN) utilizes those programs? Yes

2. Does a tiny sliver of the income tax I pay go to subsidize taxpayers who live in high tax areas? Yes
 
  • Like
Reactions: Orangeslice13
#485
#485
VolinMichigan said:
Remind me again who benefitted the most from Trump’s tax plan? It wasn’t the middle class…..
Click to expand...
What do you consider the middle class?
IRS data proves Trump tax cuts benefited middle, working-class Americans most
Income data published by the IRS clearly show that on average all income brackets benefited substantially from the Republicans’ tax reform law, with the biggest beneficiaries being working and middle-income filers, not the top 1 percent, as so many Democrats have argued.
 
  • Like
Reactions: marcusluvsvols and StarRaider
#486
#486
  • Like
Reactions: marcusluvsvols, StarRaider, Vol since 77 and 1 other person
#487
#487
Carl Pickens said:
What do you consider the middle class?
IRS data proves Trump tax cuts benefited middle, working-class Americans most
Income data published by the IRS clearly show that on average all income brackets benefited substantially from the Republicans’ tax reform law, with the biggest beneficiaries being working and middle-income filers, not the top 1 percent, as so many Democrats have argued.
Click to expand...

The opinion piece was based on an analysis by Heartland, which is a very right leaning think tank. The IRS's own numbers and those from reputable non partisan sources such as AICPA show a nominal benefit to the middle class...

I cost reference some far left leaning "analysis" that would purport to have a contrary opinion and that would be just as wrong...
 
#488
#488
rekinhavoc said:
Biden Energy Secretary Granholm mocked for touting 30% tax credit on solar panels for middle-class Americans

"If you want heat pumps, insulation, new windows, that is covered," she said. "If you are moderate income, today you can get 30% off the price of solar panels. Those solar panels can be financed, so you don't have to have the big outlay at the front … it's a significant incentive."

The government encouraging folks to go into debt. What could possibly go wrong?
Click to expand...

Will solar ever hurdle financially? 20 years of incentives and they still do not hurdle except in largely outlier cases or with some type of leveraged tax equity partner...

This doesn't even factor in the environmental impact
 
  • Like
Reactions: marcusluvsvols, rekinhavoc and Orangeslice13
#489
#489
BigOrangeMojo said:
Yes, TN did better than literally any other state but once again, the individual income tax savings were minimal for most citizens.

Unless your income was in the top 10%, you saw less than a 2% reduction in taxes due to TCJA on average. If someone in the middle class did not receive a TCJA bonus or was not invested in a 401k, it could be argued they are worse off now due to TCJA's impact on inflation...

Now if you were invested in a 401k plan, TCJA helped you out due to rising stock prices from the corporate rate cut.
Click to expand...

You’re trying to convince people who were much better off in virtually every way before this abomination that they weren’t better off. 😂
 
  • Like
Reactions: marcusluvsvols, StarRaider and VolStrom
#490
#490
BigOrangeMojo said:
The opinion piece was based on an analysis by Heartland, which is a very right leaning think tank. The IRS's own numbers and those from reputable non partisan sources such as AICPA show a nominal benefit to the middle class...

I cost reference some far left leaning "analysis" that would purport to have a contrary opinion and that would be just as wrong...
Click to expand...
https://www.heartland.org/_template-assets/documents/Trumps Tax Cuts Policy Paper.pdf
There’s a table on page 3
 
  • Like
Reactions: marcusluvsvols and StarRaider
#491
#491
C-south said:
You’re trying to convince people who were much better off in virtually every way before this abomination that they weren’t better off. 😂
Click to expand...

Oh, people (depending on specific circumstances) were better off for sure. It's not for the reasons they think though. I would bet where most people got the biggest benefit wasn't from their own tax return or a bonus but because of the stock market gains they had. And yes, the 17-19 stock market gains were largely due to TCJA...

If you have 100,000 in a 401k, the average person probably saw 60K of earnings from 17-19, a large percentage was due to TCJA. If you had a 100K of income, you probably saved a few hundred dollars on average per year. That's what I was trying to say.
 
#492
#492
85SugarVol said:
Do we?
Click to expand...
Hell yes you do. Think about it. In very simple terms: If a New Yorker had a $1000 federal tax bill, and a $500 state bill, they got to deduct that $500 from their federal taxes. Since Tennessee has no such state income tax, they are paying the full $1000 of their federal bill. If the federal budget were $1500, who is not paying their fair share?
 
  • Like
Reactions: marcusluvsvols and StarRaider
#493
#493
BigOrangeMojo said:
There's two separate questions here.

1. Does New York, in aggregate, subsidize government assistance and EITC, in states where higher percentage of population (such as TN) utilizes those programs? Yes

2. Does a tiny sliver of the income tax I pay go to subsidize taxpayers who live in high tax areas? Yes
Click to expand...
$.01 or $10Mill it matters not. High state taxed states are not paying their fair share to the .gov. Period.
 
  • Like
Reactions: marcusluvsvols
#494
#494
BigOrangeMojo said:
Oh, people (depending on specific circumstances) were better off for sure. It's not for the reasons they think though. I would bet where most people got the biggest benefit wasn't from their own tax return or a bonus but because of the stock market gains they had. And yes, the 17-19 stock market gains were largely due to TCJA...

If you have 100,000 in a 401k, the average person probably saw 60K of earnings from 17-19, a large percentage was due to TCJA. If you had a 100K of income, you probably saved a few hundred dollars on average per year. That's what I was trying to say.
Click to expand...

No
 
#495
#495
SpaceCoastVol said:
$.01 or $10Mill it matters not. High state taxed states are not paying their fair share to the .gov. Period.
Click to expand...

The other side of the equation is New York has a far lower percentage of residents on govt assistance than TN. A much higher percentage of NY's residents pay some type of income tax than TN. So in that regard, they are subsidizing a portion of the welfare/food stamps in TN...

Both statements are true.

1. Other states are subsidizing NY's high taxes
2. New York filers are subsidizing states with higher than avg public assistance rolls...
 
#496
#496
BigOrangeMojo said:
You all know this goes both ways. Trump used the IRS to go after EITC claims and "woke companies" and DeSantis is currently weaponizing the FL Dept of Revenue.....
Click to expand...

Trump is no longer in office.

I don’t live in Florida. Floridians will have the opportunity to vote DeSantis out of office if they so choose too.

This bill will have direct affect on middle and lower income families.
 
  • Like
Reactions: marcusluvsvols, SpaceCoastVol and StarRaider
#497
#497
BigOrangeMojo said:
TCJA barely moved the needle on rates if you were a poor or middle class wage earner. Let's not kid what it was: it was a Corporate and upper income tax cut with a marginal rate decrease for red state middle class taxpayers to get it through reconciliation. I'm not saying it was bad because if you were invested in the stock market, you did very well....
Click to expand...

You didn’t like Trumps tax cut because it benefited “corporate and upper income earners”, but have no problems with Biden effectively raising taxes on the middle and lower income earners?
 
  • Like
Reactions: marcusluvsvols, SpaceCoastVol, LadyVolette and 2 others
#498
#498
MOOOOONEY said:
You didn’t like Trumps tax cut because it benefited “corporate and upper income earners”, but have no problems with Biden effectively raising taxes on the middle and lower income earners?
Click to expand...

Where did I say I didn't like it? I made a shitton of money from the stock market increase because of TCJA...
 
#500
#500
Carl Pickens said:
https://www.heartland.org/_template-assets/documents/Trumps Tax Cuts Policy Paper.pdf
There’s a table on page 3
Click to expand...

I went back and verified numbers for 2017 and 2018 to determine an effective tax rate. Effective Tax Rate was Total Tax after Credits/Adjusted Gross Income

50-75K: (2017, 8.95% 2018, 7.53%) The avg person making $62,500 saved $887.

75-100K (2017 10.36% 2018, 8.86%). The avg person making $87,500 saved $1,312.

$100-200K (2017 13.24% 2018 11.78%). The average person making 150,000 saved $2,190.

Pretty consistent across the board that the middle class had an extra 1.4% - 1.5% of their income go to the bottom line because of TCJA.
 
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.

VN Store



Back
Top