Interesting Self-Defense Case Brewing in NYC

#52
#52
evillawyer said:
I think this is the relevant portion of the penal code:

2. A person may not use deadly physical force upon another person
under circumstances specified in subdivision one unless:
(a) The actor reasonably believes that such other person is using or
about to use deadly physical force. Even in such case, however, the
actor may not use deadly physical force if he or she knows that with
complete personal safety, to oneself and others he or she may avoid the
necessity of so doing by retreating; except that the actor is under no
duty to retreat if he or she is:
(i) in his or her dwelling and not the initial aggressor; or
(ii) a police officer or peace officer or a person assisting a police
officer or a peace officer at the latter`s direction, acting pursuant to
section 35.30; or
(b) He or she reasonably believes that such other person is committing
or attempting to commit a kidnapping, forcible rape, forcible criminal
sexual act or robbery; or
(c) He or she reasonably believes that such other person is committing
or attempting to commit a burglary, and the circumstances are such that
the use of deadly physical force is authorized by subdivision three of
section 35.20.
Click to expand...

Maybe he thought the guy was gonna rape him.
 
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#53
#53
evillawyer said:
I think this is the relevant portion of the penal code:

2. A person may not use deadly physical force upon another person
under circumstances specified in subdivision one unless:
(a) The actor reasonably believes that such other person is using or
about to use deadly physical force. Even in such case, however, the
actor may not use deadly physical force if he or she knows that with
complete personal safety, to oneself and others he or she may avoid the
necessity of so doing by retreating; except that the actor is under no
duty to retreat if he or she is:
(i) in his or her dwelling and not the initial aggressor; or
(ii) a police officer or peace officer or a person assisting a police
officer or a peace officer at the latter`s direction, acting pursuant to
section 35.30; or
(b) He or she reasonably believes that such other person is committing
or attempting to commit a kidnapping, forcible rape, forcible criminal
sexual act or robbery; or
(c) He or she reasonably believes that such other person is committing
or attempting to commit a burglary, and the circumstances are such that
the use of deadly physical force is authorized by subdivision three of
section 35.20.
Click to expand...

I would think there would be some strong support for one or more of the boldened under "unless".
 
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#54
#54
evillawyer said:
The use of deadly force for self-defense is limited to certain situations under NY law. That's probably what is driving Bragg's decision (not saying I agree with it).
Click to expand...

Yeah the idea that the old man has to allow himself to be beat to death in a fight he will obviously lose or hope his attackers are merciful is the type of insane standard that only NY would have
 
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#55
#55
da-bragg-file-1.jpg

Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg argued there’s a chance Jose Alba’s murder charge will be dropped.

DA Bragg 'absolutely' considering dropping Jose Alba murder charge
 
#57
#57
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#62
#62
The left: even if she doesn’t say “no” and was perfectly sober and awake, it can still be rape

So no actual duty.

The left on self defense: well, obviously you should try to run away from your attacker first.

In both cases is the problem not the person doing the assault (sexual or physical)?

Or is the problem the victim?
 
#67
#67
Vol8188 said:
My apologizes. Many here on the left have issues with the right to stand your ground
Click to expand...

Although everyone on this board, myself included, are quick to label... I own guns. I carry.

On most social issues I am liberal, but on most fiscal issues, I am conservative though the nobody in power on either side embraces that ideal. It is just to whom they wish to give my hard earned money that is the difference.
 
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#68
#68
ClearwaterVol said:
Although everyone on this board, myself included, are quick to label... I own guns. I carry.

On most social issues I am liberal, but on most fiscal issues, I am conservative though the nobody in power on either side embraces that ideal. It is just to whom they wish to give my hard earned money that is the difference.
Click to expand...


I continue to hear and read similar comments almost everywhere. I think most people fall into these categories:
1. Hard core, died in the wool partisan.
2. Votes for whoever seems to match their values, etc closest.
3. Votes for what they consider the least of two evils.

We could put a stop to these canned choices if we had term limits for every elected position in this nation, eliminated the paid ads and only had equal air time across all media. Probably the most effective measure would be to remove the pay and benefits of being in Congress and institute a per diem system where all representatives remaine in thier respective states / constituencies, worked real jobs and conducted the largest part of the nation’s business via secure internet. Once a quarter they all travel to DC to vote, hold hearings, etc and recieve something akin to military housing and per diem rates while there. No retirement, no healthcare, compenation that only offsets the direct costs of being in DC and a two term limIt. This would return elected positions to the true service and duty they were designed to be.
 
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#69
#69
Video Compilation Shows events that led to deadly NYC bodega stabbing

Chilling surveillance videos captured the events that led to a deadly confrontation between a Manhattan bodega clerk and his assailant earlier this month.

The first clip, released by the NYPD on July 5, showed ex-con Martin Simon, 35, shoving store clerk Jose Alba, 61, against the wall after the younger man walked behind the register of the Blue Moon convenience store in Hamilton Heights on July 1.

Police say Simon attacked Alba after the 35-year-old man’s girlfriend got into an argument with the clerk because she couldn’t pay for a bag of chips.

WARNING: GRAPHIC SCENES
Video compilation shows events that led to deadly NYC bodega stabbing
 
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#70
#70
Franklin Pierce said:
Video Compilation Shows events that led to deadly NYC bodega stabbing

Chilling surveillance videos captured the events that led to a deadly confrontation between a Manhattan bodega clerk and his assailant earlier this month.

The first clip, released by the NYPD on July 5, showed ex-con Martin Simon, 35, shoving store clerk Jose Alba, 61, against the wall after the younger man walked behind the register of the Blue Moon convenience store in Hamilton Heights on July 1.

Police say Simon attacked Alba after the 35-year-old man’s girlfriend got into an argument with the clerk because she couldn’t pay for a bag of chips.

WARNING: GRAPHIC SCENES
Video compilation shows events that led to deadly NYC bodega stabbing
Click to expand...
Would certainly appear that attempted "forcible robbery" could be argued. That's clearly in the "unless" section.
 
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#73
#73
so he was just working at one of these bowdegahs and guy got violent because his old lady wanted a bag of chips?
 
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#74
#74
el Jeffe said:
I continue to hear and read similar comments almost everywhere. I think most people fall into these categories:
1. Hard core, died in the wool partisan.
2. Votes for whoever seems to match their values, etc closest.
3. Votes for what they consider the least of two evils.

We could put a stop to these canned choices if we had term limits for every elected position in this nation, eliminated the paid ads and only had equal air time across all media. Probably the most effective measure would be to remove the pay and benefits of being in Congress and institute a per diem system where all representatives remaine in thier respective states / constituencies, worked real jobs and conducted the largest part of the nation’s business via secure internet. Once a quarter they all travel to DC to vote, hold hearings, etc and recieve something akin to military housing and per diem rates while there. No retirement, no healthcare, compenation that only offsets the direct costs of being in DC and a two term limIt. This would return elected positions to the true service and duty they were designed to be.
Click to expand...
I don’t disagree
 
#75
#75
Franklin Pierce said:
Video Compilation Shows events that led to deadly NYC bodega stabbing

Chilling surveillance videos captured the events that led to a deadly confrontation between a Manhattan bodega clerk and his assailant earlier this month.

The first clip, released by the NYPD on July 5, showed ex-con Martin Simon, 35, shoving store clerk Jose Alba, 61, against the wall after the younger man walked behind the register of the Blue Moon convenience store in Hamilton Heights on July 1.

Police say Simon attacked Alba after the 35-year-old man’s girlfriend got into an argument with the clerk because she couldn’t pay for a bag of chips.

WARNING: GRAPHIC SCENES
Video compilation shows events that led to deadly NYC bodega stabbing
Click to expand...

That’s the first time I’ve watched the whole video . 2 points here.. 1) why does any store in a city have open access to its employees like that ? ( 2) The old man tried to walk away it looked like but the young buck put hands on him and pulled him back . This is why we don’t put hands on each other , some people aren’t going to tolerate it . That DA is going to get hammed if he doesn’t drop the case and do some major sucking up .
 
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