Intruder shot, killed after kicking in door, charging occupant with a knife

[NorthDallas40]

Still waiting for that data love

Having a Gun in the House Doesn't Make a Woman Safer

BTW again this all started with your competing rights claim. So let’s start with you proving your own assertion sister.

 

[volinbham]

Still waiting for that data love

Having a Gun in the House Doesn't Make a Woman Safer

so I'm working my way through this article - found this interesting:

"In another study, published in the American Journal of Public Health, researchers interviewed 417 women across 67 battered women’s shelters. Nearly a third of these women had lived in a household with a firearm. In two-thirds of the homes, their intimate partners had used the gun against them, usually threatening to kill (71.4%) them. A very small percentage of these women (7%) had used a gun successfully in self-defense, and primarily just to scare the attacking male partner away. Indeed, gun threats in the home against women by their intimate partners appear to be more common across the United States than self-defense uses of guns by women."

some interesting language: threats vs self defense. I'd say this study shows how a woman can against a threat of violence.

more to come

 

[luthervol]

Ok, so you were wrong with your first rebuttal and to the second you have no clue.

I was correct and you have no rebuttal. (That's the way it reads to me)

 

[volinbham]

continued - a couple interesting parts in this paragraph

"Another large case-control study compared women who were murdered by their intimate partner with a control group of battered women. Only 16 percent of the women who had been abused, but not murdered, had guns in their homes, whereas 51 percent of the murder victims did. In fact, not a single study to date has shown that the risk of any crime including burglary, robbery, home invasion, or spousal abuse against a female is decreased through gun ownership. Though there are examples of women using a gun to defend themselves, they are few and far between, and not statistically significant."

the first is the same study I pointed out in the previous article. again we are "gun in the home" vs killed by a gun. having looked into the study from the previous article the 51% includes women who were murdered but not by a gun. it is also looking a people who've been murdered vs those who are alive. those who were murdered were also highly likely to have been abused repeatedly before their eventual murder. finally, the study shows a stronger explanatory variable - was the partner unemployed - guess Joe shouldn't have extended those UE payments...

Now to the false argument that examples of women defending themselves are few and far between and "not statistically significant". the prior paragraph disproves the quoted part - there is data in the study this article included. But the bigger problem with this statement is that this data simply isn't collected. It's like saying Ring doorbells don't prevent theft because no one is reporting when a non-theft occurs. The very subject of this thread is an example of a woman defending herself with a gun. We only know that because it was on the news AND the defense involved killing another person. If you don't shoot it ain't on the news or in the databases.

more to come

 

[volinbham]

continued - an easy one here

"A 2005 study examining mortality data from 1998-2000 found that when a female was shot by her intimate partner, the perpetrator subsequently killed himself in two thirds of the cases."

tells us nothing about the topic other than crazy dudes that kill their partner are crazy

 

[evillawyer]

continued - an easy one here

"A 2005 study examining mortality data from 1998-2000 found that when a female was shot by her intimate partner, the perpetrator subsequently killed himself in two thirds of the cases."

tells us nothing about the topic other than crazy dudes that kill their partner are crazy

Let me know when you have affirmative, non-spitballing, non-armchair empirical evidence for your empirical claim that gun ownership/access makes women safer.

The Idea That Women Use Guns For Self-Defense Against Men Is A Big Lie | HuffPost

 

[DancingOutlaw]

so I'm working my way through this article - found this interesting:

"In another study, published in the American Journal of Public Health, researchers interviewed 417 women across 67 battered women’s shelters. Nearly a third of these women had lived in a household with a firearm. In two-thirds of the homes, their intimate partners had used the gun against them, usually threatening to kill (71.4%) them. A very small percentage of these women (7%) had used a gun successfully in self-defense, and primarily just to scare the attacking male partner away. Indeed, gun threats in the home against women by their intimate partners appear to be more common across the United States than self-defense uses of guns by women."

some interesting language: threats vs self defense. I'd say this study shows how a woman can against a threat of violence.

more to come

The party of progress doth think the lady ought fire a blunderbuss into the night's sky such that the constable may hear the alarm and rush to save her from the scofflaw.

 

[NorthDallas40]

Now to the false argument that examples of women defending themselves are few and far between and "not statistically significant". the prior paragraph disproves the quoted part - there is data in the study this article included. But the bigger problem with this statement is that this data simply isn't collected. It's like saying Ring doorbells don't prevent theft because no one is reporting when a non-theft occurs. The very subject of this thread is an example of a woman defending herself with a gun. We only know that because it was on the news AND the defense involved killing another person. If you don't shoot it ain't on the news or in the databases.

more to come

Just quoting this part to slam dunk on @evillawyer you are literally in a thread illustrating that firearms in the home made a woman and her family safer, from her domestic abuser even, crying about an illogical competing rights claim, then dropping articles that insert their own ridiculous conclusions from poorly cherry picked studies even.

So back on point of your first reply to me since you’re into making demands. Can you prove your competing rights claims?

Because DC vs Heller disagrees with your assertion and nearly every state which allows lethal self defense claims I believe does not recognize self defense as an affirmative defense of prosecution in cases where the self defense claimant is the aggressor.

So... do you have a valid point sister?

 

[82_VOL_83]

I was correct and you have no rebuttal. (That's the way it reads to me)

Looth i would go to the trouble of quoting you but there is paint drying on the wall. Your foolish attempt to show 2A love is mitigated by your semi-auto ban.

 

[Wireless1]

Criminal homicide vs. Justifiable Homicide is 35-1.

Gun Use in Crimes Outpaces Justifiable Homicides, 35 to 1 | The Crime Report

More legal guns would improve the ratio

 

[RikidyBones]

Let me know when you have affirmative, non-spitballing, non-armchair empirical evidence for your empirical claim that gun ownership/access makes women safer.

The Idea That Women Use Guns For Self-Defense Against Men Is A Big Lie | HuffPost

Let us know when you can present something that isn't total bulls**t.

 

[luthervol]

continued - an easy one here

"A 2005 study examining mortality data from 1998-2000 found that when a female was shot by her intimate partner, the perpetrator subsequently killed himself in two thirds of the cases."

tells us nothing about the topic other than crazy dudes that kill their partner are crazy

You are proving that a gun in the home is detrimental? Correct?

 

[luthervol]

Let me know when you have affirmative, non-spitballing, non-armchair empirical evidence for your empirical claim that gun ownership/access makes women safer.

The Idea That Women Use Guns For Self-Defense Against Men Is A Big Lie | HuffPost

It seems he keeps proving just the opposite. I feel like I must be missing something.

 

[NorthDallas40]

Let us know when you can present something that isn't total bulls**t.

Right now she’s 0 for 3.

 

[luthervol]

Just quoting this part to slam dunk on @evillawyer you are literally in a thread illustrating that firearms in the home made a woman and her family safer, from her domestic abuser even, crying about an illogical competing rights claim, then dropping articles that insert their own ridiculous conclusions from poorly cherry picked studies even.

So back on point of your first reply to me since you’re into making demands. Can you prove your competing rights claims?

Because DC vs Heller disagrees with your assertion and nearly every state which allows lethal self defense claims I believe does not recognize self defense as an affirmative defense of prosecution in cases where the self defense claimant is the aggressor.

So... do you have a valid point sister?

It didn't prove that at all.

 

[NorthDallas40]

It didn't prove that at all.

“It”?

 

[luthervol]

Just quoting this part to slam dunk on @evillawyer you are literally in a thread illustrating that firearms in the home made a woman and her family safer, from her domestic abuser even, crying about an illogical competing rights claim, then dropping articles that insert their own ridiculous conclusions from poorly cherry picked studies even.

So back on point of your first reply to me since you’re into making demands. Can you prove your competing rights claims?

Because DC vs Heller disagrees with your assertion and nearly every state which allows lethal self defense claims I believe does not recognize self defense as an affirmative defense of prosecution in cases where the self defense claimant is the aggressor.

So... do you have a valid point sister?

From the article
not a single study to date has shown that the risk of any crime including burglary, robbery, home invasion, or spousal abuse against a female is decreased through gun ownership

 

[NorthDallas40]

From the article
not a single study to date has shown that the risk of any crime including burglary, robbery, home invasion, or spousal abuse against a female is decreased through gun ownership

It really shows no correlation at all to the article(s) claim which is all of the points bham is making. I realize your brain cannot accept that.

 

[McDad]

I've always had a great deal of respect for 72. I was a little surprised he blocked me but I was able to twist it into a positive.
It is frustrating to say one thing over and over for four years only to have others claim otherwise. But I don't fault my message and it certainly isn't only with the gun debate. To me, it highlights a much larger and obvious problem.

If it's frustrating to iterate and repackage the same message and you don't fault your message, you must fault your audience?

 

[luthervol]

“It”?

The study.
Volinbham continues to post pieces from the article proving a gun does not make a woman safer.
Maybe I'm juggling to many things at once.

 

[NorthDallas40]

If it's frustrating to iterate and repackage the same message and you don't fault your message, you must fault your audience?

So you saw my homer meme right? That’s exactly what he does. It’s all of us not him.

 

[evillawyer]

It didn't prove that at all.

I've stopped trying to reason with nortdallasknuckledragger. He the embodiment of that George Bernard Shaw quip: Never wrestle with a pig. You both just get dirty, except the pig enjoys it.

 

[NorthDallas40]

The study.
Volinbham continues to post pieces from the article proving a gun does not make a woman safer.
Maybe I'm juggling to many things at once.

Nah you’re just clueless keep juggling it doesn’t make a difference.

 

[NorthDallas40]

I've stopped trying to reason with nortdallasknuckledragger. He the embodiment of that George Bernard Shaw quip: Never wrestle with a pig. You both just get dirty, except the pig enjoys it.

So... prove your competing rights assertion sister? Because you are at odds with the laws on your assertion.

 

[luthervol]

If it's frustrating to iterate and repackage the same message and you don't fault your message, you must fault your audience?

True. But it's a little like erosion. Slow, imperceptible, but ultimately effective in its relentless.
Do you know of an argument or approach that has been effective with the 2a crowd? Just curious.