Iron Bowl Child Support Sting - AWESOME!

#26
#26
wounded mullet said:
Like I said in the first thread, I don't understand the logic behind locking up somebody for backed child support. It's not accomplishing a damn thing except ironically we are paying to support him now.
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Execution would be better imo
 
#27
#27
I didn't think my post was going to spark a child support debate. Since it did, here's my two cents --

I'm a lawyer. I've been appointed by Courts on numerous occasions as pro bono Guardian ad Litem on behalf of kids involved in bad custody disputes (usually involving some type of abuse by either or both parents). I have been doing it for years. I can tell you for a fact that I have NEVER seen a parent thrown in jail for failing to pay the full amount of child support owed if that parent is making a good faith effort to pay what they can, even if that amount falls short of the court ordered amount. NEVER. Even if the parent is not making a good faith effort to pay, the Courts typically give MULTIPLE opportunities for the parent to start making some kind of payment (even the most minute amount) to avoid jail. In addition, because it does not accomplish the goal of supporting the child if the parent is in jail, Courts typically wait until the non-paying parent has racked up THOUSANDS of dollars in back support before putting them in jail -- at some point, it become blatantly obvious to the court that the non-paying parent is never going to pay, so jail is the only and last option to get their attention.

For those that don't know, the court uses a very specific calculation based on what the parent earns to figure out what he/she owes in child support -- there's NOTHING subjective about it. The parties are ordered to turn over pay stubbs, and an accounting of all their assets. In fact, parents usually are ordered to pay far less than they probably should pay b/c people are very good about hiding income. If the parent loses his/her job, gets a pay cut, has a necessary emergency expense (like a medical procedure), or somehow cannot afford to pay the ordered amount, that parent petitions the court for a modification of the order and the court adjust the amount accordingly. Likewise, if the paying parent starts to earn more then when the court ordered child support, the receiving parent can petition the court and ask that the amount of support be raised. There's no conspiracy involved (Rasputin Vol, I'm talking to you)!! Family court judges, most of whom are men btw, are very good at what they do and can typically smell BS from a mile away.

I understand your friend's pain Countvolcula (divorce sucks -- you lose time with your kid and it costs money), but at the end of the day, his kid should be his #1 priority above all else. If "extra expenses" come up, his kid should still be his #1 priority. I'm not saying that your friend is like this (or a bad dad), but you would not believe the "necessary" expenses that some parents put before paying their child support -- cigarettes, alcohol, drugs, a fancy car (instead of a modest car that just gets you from A to B), gifts for the new girlfriend (and HER kids), botox, money for the new boyfriend's hobby, cell phones, iPads, not wanting to liquidate stocks/bonds/401k's, etc. I'VE HEARD IT ALL and I almost can't believe my ears when I hear dead beat parents (moms and dads alike) try to give the judge an excuse of why he/she can't pay to support their own child. It's a total disgrace.

Knowing what I know and seeing what I've seen in person, I have ZERO sympathy for the people arrested in this sting. The odds of them having been given multiple chances to pay something (not everything, just something to show good faith) is near 100%. Lock em' up and throw away the key. They ARE deadbeats and deserve to pick up trash on the side of the highway in a prison jump suit.

:twocents:

Edit: Here's an article that talks about these parents -- each owed somewhere between $35,000 - $75,000 in back child support. It's not like they missed one or two payments and then were thrown in jail.

http://blog.al.com/montgomery/2011/08/gotcha_auburn_police_lure_dead.html
 
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#28
#28
VKAman said:
Guilty until proven innocent. Nice to see that people are still ignoring the most basic principles of U.S. law.
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Not true. These people don't get a criminal trial because they aren't going to jail on criminal charges. They are being held in "contempt of court" for failing to abide by a civil court order.
 
#29
#29
Someone explain to me why they couldn't serve the warrant in another fashion. If they knew where to mail the letter, why wouldn't they be able to serve the warrant at the address to where the letter was sent?
 
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#30
#30
pl3 said:
Someone explain to me why they couldn't serve the warrant in another fashion. If they knew where to mail the letter, why wouldn't they be able to serve the warrant at the address to where the letter was sent?
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I thought it was brilliant. It takes a LOT of time, money, and man-power to run around to people's homes and serve warrants. The way they did it, these idiots simply came to them. It also is much riskier to serve a warrant at someone's home where they may have guns, weapons, means of escape, etc. than it is in a very controlled place like they did it. It was also a way for them to get the press involved -- it sent a message to other dead-beat parents to pay up or suffer the same consequence.
 
#31
#31
Maybe so, but they had @ 30 people there and the setup and time involved couldn't have been too cheap. Seems like 3 groups of 3-4 people could have served those losers and been done with it before mid morning.
 
#32
#32
pl3 said:
Maybe so, but they had @ 30 people there and the setup and time involved couldn't have been too cheap. Seems like 3 groups of 3-4 people could have served those losers and been done with it before mid morning.
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Even though the video only shows 4 people being arrested, close to 12 were taken. 140 letters were sent out -- asking the police to round up that many people is a little tough. I'm sure they sent letters to last known addresses hoping to bring in a few. Each person arrested owed anywhere from $35,000-$75,000 EACH for back child support, so these were not people we should feel sorry for.

I understand your point -- the gov't doesn't always do things the most efficient way. With that said, tracking dead beat parents down is hard to do and it's usually not a first priority for police departments so I would call this a success. In any event, I don't mind my tax dollars being spent this way and I don't think the way in which these people were arrested somehow excuses their actions.

Gotcha! Police lure deadbeat parents to arrest with fake Iron Bowl tickets | al.com
 
#33
#33
Doubtless everyone who turned up was hoping to re-sell the tickets so that they could catch up on their child support. :ermm:
 
#35
#35
PMC2726 said:
There's no conspiracy involved (Rasputin Vol, I'm talking to you)!!
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We'll just have to agree to disagree. Conspiracy is a strong word. I would rather use the term racket.

If you want to make real change in family courts, then there probably needs to be an effort to remove the incentive to have kids if you can't afford them in the first place. These mothers know that they will always have a safety net, weather it be off of the backs of the biological father thru child support or welfare (out of my taxes). Hold the mothers more accountable for their role in the situation.

In that video, you had 4 men to 1 woman. There is no way you can tell me that the system doesn't favor one gender over the other.
 
#36
#36
Deadbeats got what they deserved.
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#37
#37
Rasputin_Vol said:
Deadbeats? Because they didn't pay or because they couldn't afford the excessive payments that the courts placed on them so they fell behind? We have no idea what condition these guys were in. You people throw around the word "deadbeat dad" without taking into consideration any of the abuses that occur in these misandrous family courts.
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I don't know all of the details, but I do agree with you about the courts.................
"Been there, done that, lost the shirt."

As an aside, they tried to give away Free Opera tickets, but didn't have a very large turnout.
 
#39
#39
Rasputin_Vol said:
We'll just have to agree to disagree. Conspiracy is a strong word. I would rather use the term racket.

If you want to make real change in family courts, then there probably needs to be an effort to remove the incentive to have kids if you can't afford them in the first place. These mothers know that they will always have a safety net, weather it be off of the backs of the biological father thru child support or welfare (out of my taxes). Hold the mothers more accountable for their role in the situation.

In that video, you had 4 men to 1 woman. There is no way you can tell me that the system doesn't favor one gender over the other.
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Its a flawed system no doubt. Baby mommas hold all the cards. There are alot of pos dads out there though, yet i have little sympathy for the moms considering they made the choice to procreate with them.
 
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#40
#40
wounded mullet said:
Its a flawed system no doubt. Baby mommas hold all the cards. There are alot of pos dads out there though, yet i have little sympathy for the moms considering they made the choice to procreate with them.
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ding ding ding

"Who is more foolish, the fool, or the fool who follows him" -Jesus ... (or was that obi-wan?)
 
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#42
#42
PMC2726 said:
I didn't think my post was going to spark a child support debate. Since it did, here's my two cents --

I'm a lawyer. I've been appointed by Courts on numerous occasions as pro bono Guardian ad Litem on behalf of kids involved in bad custody disputes (usually involving some type of abuse by either or both parents). I have been doing it for years. I can tell you for a fact that I have NEVER seen a parent thrown in jail for failing to pay the full amount of child support owed if that parent is making a good faith effort to pay what they can, even if that amount falls short of the court ordered amount. NEVER. Even if the parent is not making a good faith effort to pay, the Courts typically give MULTIPLE opportunities for the parent to start making some kind of payment (even the most minute amount) to avoid jail. In addition, because it does not accomplish the goal of supporting the child if the parent is in jail, Courts typically wait until the non-paying parent has racked up THOUSANDS of dollars in back support before putting them in jail -- at some point, it become blatantly obvious to the court that the non-paying parent is never going to pay, so jail is the only and last option to get their attention.

For those that don't know, the court uses a very specific calculation based on what the parent earns to figure out what he/she owes in child support -- there's NOTHING subjective about it. The parties are ordered to turn over pay stubbs, and an accounting of all their assets. In fact, parents usually are ordered to pay far less than they probably should pay b/c people are very good about hiding income. If the parent loses his/her job, gets a pay cut, has a necessary emergency expense (like a medical procedure), or somehow cannot afford to pay the ordered amount, that parent petitions the court for a modification of the order and the court adjust the amount accordingly. Likewise, if the paying parent starts to earn more then when the court ordered child support, the receiving parent can petition the court and ask that the amount of support be raised. There's no conspiracy involved (Rasputin Vol, I'm talking to you)!! Family court judges, most of whom are men btw, are very good at what they do and can typically smell BS from a mile away.

I understand your friend's pain Countvolcula (divorce sucks -- you lose time with your kid and it costs money), but at the end of the day, his kid should be his #1 priority above all else. If "extra expenses" come up, his kid should still be his #1 priority. I'm not saying that your friend is like this (or a bad dad), but you would not believe the "necessary" expenses that some parents put before paying their child support -- cigarettes, alcohol, drugs, a fancy car (instead of a modest car that just gets you from A to B), gifts for the new girlfriend (and HER kids), botox, money for the new boyfriend's hobby, cell phones, iPads, not wanting to liquidate stocks/bonds/401k's, etc. I'VE HEARD IT ALL and I almost can't believe my ears when I hear dead beat parents (moms and dads alike) try to give the judge an excuse of why he/she can't pay to support their own child. It's a total disgrace.

Knowing what I know and seeing what I've seen in person, I have ZERO sympathy for the people arrested in this sting. The odds of them having been given multiple chances to pay something (not everything, just something to show good faith) is near 100%. Lock em' up and throw away the key. They ARE deadbeats and deserve to pick up trash on the side of the highway in a prison jump suit.

:twocents:

Edit: Here's an article that talks about these parents -- each owed somewhere between $35,000 - $75,000 in back child support. It's not like they missed one or two payments and then were thrown in jail.

Gotcha! Police lure deadbeat parents to arrest with fake Iron Bowl tickets | al.com
Click to expand...

Bingo. :hi:
 
#43
#43
pl3 said:
Someone explain to me why they couldn't serve the warrant in another fashion. If they knew where to mail the letter, why wouldn't they be able to serve the warrant at the address to where the letter was sent?
Click to expand...

Because all you have to do is have your girlfriend, etc come to the door and say "he's not here."

PMC2726 said:
Even though the video only shows 4 people being arrested, close to 12 were taken.
Click to expand...

Close to 12? Like.... 11? 10?


Also, this video is awesome.
 
#44
#44
LOL @ all the people with sympathy for the deadbeat dads. I easpecially like the part where people are blaming the courts. At least in TN, child support is set by statute and no judge or court has much control at what amount each ancillary parent has to pay. So the "poor me, the big bad judge made me pay too much child support" argument doesn't hold water. Parent A who makes x pays the same support and parent B who makes x and so on.

Also, as PMC put it: you're not going to jail for missing a child support payment. You're not even going to jail for falling several thousand behind as long as you're making a good faith effort to hold/find a job and pay what you can. If warrants are going out for arrests, these guys haven't been paying support for years and they haven't been coming to Court hearings. No sympathy needed. Arrests and imprisonment for support is the utter last resort of Child Support Court, because then it is assured that no income is being made by the deadbeat. However, it's a deterrrant for other parents and the one who got locked up once he/she is released.
 
#46
#46
pl3 said:
That's not how I understand a warrant.
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That's how arrest warrants work, especially the ones issued from child support court. You may be thinking of search warrants.

This is actually a pretty good idea, because going around and serving these individually would be time consuming, dangerous and mostly futile, as these parents are already evading the court system, they would probably try to evade arrest as well.
 
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