Irrational obsession with the Gators

[OrangeFrenzy]

lg,
I feel confident that if we reel off several 5-loss seasons, the coaching staff will make whatever changes they feel are needed. The fact that our output has been dismal enough lately to make some UT fans cry about it, yet we are still able to win 90% of our games with it, would almost read as a compliment to our staff, no? We will be fine. We know that. You know that. let's hope that UM gets it together so that we can fear you again.

 

[GatorsN07]

Originally posted by volbrian@Oct 4, 2005 3:14 PM
Ok.  Heres the deal. 

Zook was UFs 3rd pick to replace SOS.  Bob stoops was the top choice, but he declined.  I cant remember who they tried next.  But they settled for Zook.

A lot of UF fans were cautiosuly optimistic about Zook.  They kept saying lets wait and give him a chance.  Let him get his own players into the system

In his first year, UF BEAT UT.  Or, as all VOL fans can remember, the Vols iimploded during the UF game.  It was a game where UF has us backed up to our own goal line and Casey Clausen coulnt even get the snap from center.  He fumbled 3 straight snaps.  How he kept a UF safety from happening is beyond me.

ANyhoo, after the game, every gator fan jumped on the RZ bandwagon.  If he beat UT, then he is a legit coach.  Turns out, RZ lost 2 more that year and as it turned out, beating UT wasnt any big deal in 2002 (we had more problems then than we do now).

Point is, after the UT win "legitimized" Zook, we know how that turned out.  Gatorfans like yourself, seem to be following the same path with UM.  You are right, time will tell.  But the paralells of the 2 seasons are uncanny.

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Okay, I thought you were referring to the hype after the initial hire. Because after Zook was hired there wasn't near the hype that occurred after UM was hired. It was as you said, a wait and see mentality with Zook. Anyway, their second choice was Mike Shanahan of the Denver Broncos, just for useless informational purposes. Bob Stoops, Mike Shanahan, Ron Zook, kind of a large step down, don't you think? Well, good luck VOLS. If you had played like you did in the second half of the LSU game, we would be 3-2 (scary). ost-20645-1119625378:

 

[lawgator1]

Originally posted by OrangeFrenzy@Oct 4, 2005 3:18 PM
lg,
I feel confident that if we reel off several 5-loss seasons, the coaching staff will make whatever changes they feel are needed.  The fact that our output has been dismal enough lately to make some UT fans cry about it, yet we are still able to win 90% of our games with it, would almost read as a compliment to our staff, no?  We will be fine.  We know that.  You know that.  let's hope that UM gets it together so that we can fear you again.

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See, in the end I think its the players who ought to be criticized for the WAY that we lost to 'bama. We lost because they are a better football team. But the manner of the loss seemed to me to indicate a real lack of character and desire on the part of the UF players.

Coaching can help that some, but not entirely and there needs to be a big shift in the way these kids collectively respond to adversity or it is going to be a long year.

 

[Lexvol]

Originally posted by lawgator1@Oct 4, 2005 3:21 PM
See, in the end I think its the players who ought to be criticized for the WAY that we lost to 'bama.  We lost because they are a better football team.  But the manner of the loss seemed to me to indicate a real lack of character and desire on the part of the UF players.

Coaching can help that some, but not entirely and there needs to be a big shift in the way these kids collectively respond to adversity or it is going to be a long year.

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If that game is in the swamp, there is an entirely different outcome. I think that the win over a terrible UK team in the fashion that it occured also worked against you a little bit.

They were also a little overconfident because they handed UT offense their butts.

 

[lawgator1]

Originally posted by lawgator1@Oct 4, 2005 3:21 PM

Coaching can help that some, but not entirely and there needs to be a big shift in the way these kids collectively respond to adversity or it is going to be a long year.

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And at the risk of talking to myself again, the point is that your team responded very well to adversity against LSU while by beloved Gators folded up like a cheap tent.

 

[Lexvol]

Originally posted by lawgator1@Oct 4, 2005 3:23 PM
And at the risk of talking to myself again, the point is that your team responded very well to adversity against LSU while by beloved Gators folded up like a cheap tent.

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Just bad timing. Read my post above.

 

[VolBeef88]

Originally posted by lawgator1@Oct 4, 2005 3:23 PM
And at the risk of talking to myself again, the point is that your team responded very well to adversity against LSU while by beloved Gators folded up like a cheap tent.

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I may use that as my signature! LOL thanks!

 

[surrealvol]

Well. guess I should throw in a thought or two.

UM, in my opinion, will do well at UF, much better than RZ because he is a better coach. However, that just makes the rivalry that much better for me, because it is always fun to beat a good program than a program that is not so good, or down.

I think the reason we (The Vol Nation) is sorta preoccupied with UM at this point in the season is that we need for UF to lose again, so we can make it to the SECCG. Of course, we have to do our part to get there.

If UF loses again, and I think they will, the UM thing will probably deescalate. Anyway, whether it does or not, it makes for exciting fun because of the rivalry that will probably never lessen.

I think Leak is one of the most overrated QBs in the country, but that is just my opinion. And he and his brother just add to the rivalry because of all that happened there.

I, for one, would not want any of our major rivalries to become back burner items because that is what get the juices going. I think we gave the game away in Gainesville, and I was extremely disappointed in our offense and special team play.

BUT, that game is over and we have a BIG one coming up this Saturday. If we win that one, we will wait for UF to lose another, and then we will begin to think about Alabama and Notre Dame, and the SECCG, and some, if not the, bowl at the end of the season.

There's nothing super special about UM. I think he's a good coach. I don't think the spread is going to work unless he comes up with THE QB of QBs. We'll just wait and see.

With all that rambling done, I look forward to the future of the U.T./U.F. rivalry because it is what BIGTIME college football is all about and it gives us all a great reason to look forward to Saturdays in the Fall.

If the truth is known, the ACC, Pacifier 10, Big(?) 12, Big 10 or 11 or 12 or whatever, and the Little East are ALL jealous that the SEC has a BUNCH of these big rivalries, and that is what makes us THE BEST CONFERENCE in the nation.

No love lost between me and UF, UAT, AU, LSU, etc., but I do enjoy being part of a program that is involved in the best conference in the country. And our rivalries make it just that!

GO VOLS!!!!!!!

 

[Lexvol]

Even if he comes up with the Qb of Qbs, he will need to make some major scheme adjustments to protect the health of his QB.
Every good SEC team has a pair of linebackers with 4.5-4.6 speed, and most have more than a pair.

 

[GatorsN07]

Originally posted by surrealvol@Oct 4, 2005 3:31 PM
Well. guess I should throw in a thought or two.

UM, in my opinion, will do well at UF, much better than RZ because he is a better coach.  However, that just makes the rivalry that much better for me, because it is always fun to beat a good program than a program that is not so good, or down.

I think the reason we (The Vol Nation) is sorta preoccupied with UM at this point in the season is that we need for UF to lose again, so we can make it to the SECCG.  Of course, we have to do our part to get there.

If UF loses again, and I think they will, the UM thing will probably deescalate.  Anyway, whether it does or not, it makes for exciting fun because of the rivalry that will probably never lessen.

I think Leak is one of the most overrated QBs in the country, but that is just my opinion.  And he and his brother just add to the rivalry because of all that happened there. 

I, for one, would not want any of our major rivalries to become back burner items because that is what get the juices going.  I think we gave the game away in Gainesville, and I was extremely disappointed in our offense and special team play.

BUT, that game is over and we have a BIG one coming up this Saturday.  If we win that one, we will wait for UF to lose another, and then we will begin to think about Alabama and Notre Dame, and the SECCG, and some, if not the, bowl at the end of the season.

There's nothing super special about UM.  I think he's a good coach.  I don't think the spread is going to work unless he comes up with THE QB of QBs. We'll just wait and see.

With all that rambling done, I look forward to the future of the U.T./U.F. rivalry because it is what BIGTIME college football is all about and it gives us all a great reason to look forward to Saturdays in the Fall.

If the truth is known, the ACC, Pacifier 10, Big(?) 12, Big 10 or 11 or 12 or whatever, and the Little East are ALL jealous that the SEC has a BUNCH of these big rivalries, and that is what makes us THE BEST CONFERENCE in the nation.

No love lost between me and UF, UAT, AU, LSU, etc., but I do enjoy being part of a program that is involved in the best conference in the country.  And our rivalries make it just that!

GO VOLS!!!!!!!

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Great post, I agree 100%. I guess that's why you are the guru. :bow:
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[volinbham]

LG,

My posts were sarcastic because I found it funny that you are attributing these deep psychological reasons to us jumping on UM. I'm just poking fun because your thesis is preposterous to me. It's sarcasm dude.

I can only speak for myself but it has nothing to do with some deep seated jealously or attribution of concerns about UT.

It has everything to do with being right (in my own mind ). All along I've questioned the viability of the UM scheme while virtually all gator fans I've heard from have dismissed those questions and bought in 100%. The results so far have been below average. My initial thoughts were confirmed. End of story.

 

[GatorsN07]

Originally posted by volinbham@Oct 4, 2005 3:42 PM
LG,

My posts were sarcastic because I found it funny that you are attributing these deep psychological reasons to us jumping on UM.  I'm just poking fun because your thesis is preposterous to me.  It's sarcasm dude.

I can only speak for myself but it has nothing to do with some deep seated jealously or attribution of concerns about UT.

It has everything to do with being right (in my own mind  ).  All along I've questioned the viability of the UM scheme while virtually all gator fans I've heard from have dismissed those questions and bought in 100%.  The results so far have been below average.  My initial thoughts were confirmed.  End of story.

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Wow, didn't "take long" for you to confirm UM's scheme is not viable. You must be one of those guys, a little quick. :nener:

 

[volinbham]

Originally posted by GatorsN07@Oct 4, 2005 3:53 PM
Wow, didn't "take long" for you to confirm UM's scheme is not viable.  You must be one of those guys, a little quick. :nener:

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Nice :lolabove:


Do all you Florida fans have Psychology degrees?

 

[OWB]

He willed us to a win over UT this year, and you know it.

I'm sorry lawgator, he didn't do that much to win that game. As far as I'm concerned, we gift wrapped and gave you all that win. I'm not trying to take anything from the win itself, but you all were in scoring range most of the game thanks to our special team play and LACK of offense and all you could do was kick FG's. Doesn't take much of a coach to realize you need to kick it.

I think that Meyer will probably end up being an above average coach in the SEC, but saying he "willed" you all to a win is a little much.

 

[lawgator1]

Originally posted by Orangewhiteblood@Oct 4, 2005 4:00 PM
I'm sorry lawgator, he didn't do that much to win that game.  As far as I'm concerned, we gift wrapped and gave you all that win.  I'm not trying to take anything from the win itself, but you all were in scoring range most of the game  thanks to our special team play and LACK of offense and all you could do was kick FG's.  Doesn't take much of a coach to realize you need to kick it.

I think that Meyer will probably end up being an above average coach in the SEC, but saying he "willed" you all to a win is a little much.

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Maybe a bit of an exaggeration but I do think his attitude and promotion of toughness(the 'bama game notwithstanding) is a welcome relief from the play-not-to-lose mentality of the Zooker.

 

[rwemyss]

I think UM is actually a really good coach... HOWEVER, I am still not sold on the spread option in the SEC. The Defenses have become too fast, and are too well coached to allow a gimmick like that to work on them. That said, I believe UM will see this, and the sooner he does, the worse for us. He's a motivator, and that is VERY important.

You are right though, LG, it seemed like the UF players gave up on Saturday, and that should be a major concern... our guys sure didn't give up 21-0 at halftime.

 

[lawgator1]

Originally posted by rwemyss@Oct 4, 2005 5:57 PM
I think UM is actually a really good coach... HOWEVER, I am still not sold on the spread option in the SEC.  The Defenses have become too fast, and are too well coached to allow a gimmick like that to work on them.  That said, I believe UM will see this, and the sooner he does, the worse for us.  He's a motivator, and that is VERY important.

You are right though, LG, it seemed like the UF players gave up on Saturday, and that should be a major concern... our guys sure didn't give up 21-0 at halftime.

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Agree with you on all that except that I am not convinced yet that the spread option cannot work. Just as SEC defenses are better, so are the offensive players. Now, one could credibly argue that Leak and Wynn are not the skill players for that offense and I'd probably agree with that. And for next year expect to see more drop back passing to take advantage of Leak's strengths.

But UM is probably already recruitng some Vick-type kids to play in his system. In 2-3 years it will be the UF offense.

 

[Lexvol]

Originally posted by lawgator1@Oct 4, 2005 6:34 PM
Agree with you on all that except that I am not convinced yet that the spread option cannot work.  Just as SEC defenses are better, so are the offensive players.  Now, one could credibly argue that Leak and Wynn are not the skill players for that offense and I'd probably agree with that.  And for next year expect to see more drop back passing to take advantage of Leak's strengths.

But UM is probably already recruitng some Vick-type kids to play in his system.  In 2-3 years it will be the UF offense.

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Though I think the jury is still out on UM spread viability, do you really think the Gatornation will give him 2-3 years to "work it out"?

 

[lawgator1]

Originally posted by Lexvol@Oct 4, 2005 6:38 PM
Though I think the jury is still out on UM spread viability, do you really think the Gatornation will give him 2-3 years to "work it out"?

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Yes, I feel very sure of that. At least 2 losses in last year's 7-5 season were due directly to the team's lack of mental and physical toughness and that I lay directly at the feet of the Zooker. He was one heckuva recruiter and he worked hard, but I don't think he had command of the team on the field. I think Meyer won't put up with nonsense and has the respect of the team and the fans.

So, if we hover in the 10-2, 9-3, 8-4 area for a few years while he brings along some kids to take over and run that offense more effectively, we'll wait on it.

 

[WA_Vol]

Originally posted by lawgator1@Oct 4, 2005 3:10 PM
You nailed it brg.  Its a gimmick to sell stuff.  That's what happened to fireronzook.com in the end.  Just a sales technique.

For those feigning surprised delight that there is discord in Gainesville, puuuhhhhllleeeaaassseee.  We all know you do not mean it when you say you hope he sticks around so as to make it easier to beat Florida.  He willed us to a win over UT this year, and you know it.

Whether he sticks with an option attack and recruits accordingly, or alters it to be better suited to the type of talent UF traditionally gets remains to be seen.  But in the end he will not be stale.  He's young and innovative and any honest fan of an opposing team would admit that in the long haul this worries them.

In fact, an honest UT fan would admit that they worry that the fear of change in your offensive schemes is what ails your program.  UF is a team experimenting with a new offense and everyone knows that Meyer is smart enough and talented enough to tinker with it or change it altogether if he can't make it work at UF.  On the other hand, there is considerable reason to believe that the UT coaching staff is unreasonably intransigent in adapting and changing much because they worry that, if they do, they are admitting they made a mistake in their game design.

To be blunt, you got your own discord to worry about.  Don't waste time on ours.

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I was worried before the season started, but after seeing how he has done the several games, I'm not worried at all. In fact, I think that system doesnt work well at this level with the speed of the SEC defenss. These defenses are disciplined and fast making an option type offense hard to run. Look what happened to Nebraska, even they, of all people have done away with the option. I think Meyer either retools his scheme to be more pass oriented less run option plays or he isnt going to win like he is expected too.

 

[rwemyss]

Originally posted by lawgator1@Oct 4, 2005 7:46 PM
He was one heckuva recruiter and he worked hard, but I don't think he had command of the team on the field.  I think Meyer won't put up with nonsense and has the respect of the team and the fans.

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So you think that Saturday UM had command of the team on the field? Honestly?

About the spread option... the whole idea is to spread defenses out and get them out of position to make a play... but when the defense is THIS fast, and well coached the opportunity to get them out of position is slim to none. The defenses in the SEC are so fast, they can make up for being spread out! Not to say it won't pop a big one every now and again. We got caught with our proverbial pants down on the reverse, but in general it cannot be effective because the D can make up the ground with their speed to the ball.

 

[lawgator1]

Originally posted by rwemyss@Oct 4, 2005 6:51 PM
So you think that Saturday UM had command of the team on the field?  Honestly?

About the spread option... the whole idea is to spread defenses out and get them out of position to make a play... but when the defense is THIS fast, and well coached the opportunity to get them out of position is slim to none.  The defenses in the SEC are so fast, they can make up for being spread out!  Not to say it won't pop a big one every now and again.  We got caught with our proverbial pants down on the reverse, but in general it cannot be effective because the D can make up the ground with their speed to the ball.

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I do.

As I said before, the loss itself was because 'bama has a whole lot better team than UF. The style and margin of the loss was the result of a lack of character on the part of the UF players. Your UT team has character and right now the Gators don't and I start by blaming the players for that, not UM.

Ultimately, is it his job to build that character? Yes. But there is a limit to what Meyer should be expected to do, especially as it is the first loss of the UM regime. We'll see how he and the team respond. The Zooker made losing, losing in the last minutes, and losing ugly a habit. Every team in the SEC loses a game or two except in the rarest of seasons so let's just see if UM can get ahold of the collective psyche of the team and get them to focus now on winning the SEC East, the rest to be worried about later.

 

[Vol67]

I hope the loser with his gimmick offense sticks around, maybe next year Fulmer will play the right QB and win

 

[lawgator1]

Originally posted by Vol67@Oct 5, 2005 9:49 AM
I hope the loser with his gimmick offense sticks around, maybe next year Fulmer will play the right QB and win

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I hope he does, too. But because I think he will adapt the offense to Leak and Wynn and the talent he does have and then in 2-3 years after he has recruited the next Vick he'll be tearing up all sorts of SEC records for rushing yards by a QB.

 

[OrangeFrenzy]

Originally posted by lawgator1@Oct 5, 2005 1:31 PM
I hope he does, too.  But because I think he will adapt the offense to Leak and Wynn and the talent he does have and then in 2-3 years after he has recruited the next Vick he'll be tearing up all sorts of SEC records for rushing yards by a QB.

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<Insert herpes joke here>

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