Is a vote for a 3rd party really a vote for a 3rd party?

#1
volinbham

volinbham

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#1
In another thread, a couple posters indicated they would not make a lesser of two evils vote but instead vote their conscience and go 3rd party.

I understand the logic but isn't that also a defacto vote for one of the two main candidates? The 3rd party is never truly a 3rd alternative and most commonly serves as a vote splitter from one side only.

So in voting your conscience aren't you indirectly supporting the side that is most ideologically different than you?

Eg. a vote for Johnson = a defacto vote for Obama?

I can see both sides of this argument - just thought I'd throw it out there.

(the other consideration is that if you are in a really red state then it doesn't have this effect but in a swing state it does)
 
#2
#2
If a 3rd party candidate had a chance to win, it would not bother me if people voted 3rd party but seeing none of them have a chance then it's at best pointless. I doubt there will be enough of them to effect the election.
 
#3
#3
I get your point but, if true, how will anything ever change? Is it my job to just vote for the GOP or is it their responsibility to present a candidate worth my vote?

the only candidate that even gets close to matching my views will get my vote. If that gets Obama elected then maybe the GOP will take notice (not likely). I mean, this was an election they had to try hard to get wrong and they did.

I just don't believe we'll ever see a real change in options unless we start eliminating the terrible ones they trot out
 
#4
#4
I guess it could be seen as a vote for the guy you like least.

...but if enough people did it and the winner of the election doesn't even get 40% of the vote it would send a big message that independents are fed up.
 
#5
#5
A third party vote is essentially a vote taken away from the major candidate on the same political wing, as long as the two major parties are essentially blocking nearly any third party candidate from participating in the debates and from gaining a national foothold.

There's a good doc out there on Nader's 2000 run. The Dems at the time placed most of the blame on him for Al Gore's defeat, yet they said he was too insignificant to take part in the debates. And had Gore won, I guarantee the GOP would have said the same of Pat Buchanan.
 
#6
#6
My suspicion is that, in swing states, the number of people voting for a third party conservative will be very, very small. Reason being that those people considering a third party candidate would tend to be extremely conservative. And so if a state is projected to be close, my hunch is that their overwhelming desire to defeat Obama will overcome their discontent with Romney and they will go ahead and vote GOP.

If anything, they might just end up not voting, which is probably what worries the GOP more, right now.
 
#7
#7
One more devil's advocate position. Unless you enthusiastically want the 3rd party candidate to be POTUS then all you've done is go from lesser of 2 evils to lesser of 3 evils. In the end, it is still a vote against rather than a vote for.
 
#8
#8
utvolpj said:
I get your point but, if true, how will anything ever change? Is it my job to just vote for the GOP or is it their responsibility to present a candidate worth my vote?

the only candidate that even gets close to matching my views will get my vote. If that gets Obama elected then maybe the GOP will take notice (not likely). I mean, this was an election they had to try hard to get wrong and they did.

I just don't believe we'll ever see a real change in options unless we start eliminating the terrible ones they trot out
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There should be a place for additional parties, but the system is set up to exclude third party candidates on the national level, with the only exception being a Ross Perot type who can come in and bankroll their own campaign.
 
#9
#9
lawgator1 said:
Reason being that those people considering a third party candidate would tend to be extremely conservative.
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do you even know who we're talking about?

volinbham said:
One more devil's advocate position. Unless you enthusiastically want the 3rd party candidate to be POTUS then all you've done is go from lesser of 2 evils to lesser of 3 evils. In the end, it is still a vote against rather than a vote for.
Click to expand...

I would love for Johnson to be POTUS. IMO you're viewing it from the position of a party member and not simply a single voter (not accusing, just an opinion)
 
#10
#10
Isn't the point of our democratic process to give every individual the opportunity to vote for who they support? It isn't to just vote between the guys that would most likely win. If I dug the 3rd party candidate, I'd definitely vote for him, because I've only got one vote. It's mine to use for the candidate I support.
 
#11
#11
You should vote for the one that best represents your ideological leanings. Be it a 3rd party or not.
 
#12
#12
Panthro said:
Isn't the point of our democratic process to give every individual the opportunity to vote for who they support? It isn't to just vote between the guys that would most likely win. If I dug the 3rd party candidate, I'd definitely vote for him, because I've only got one vote. It's mine to use for the candidate I support.
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My point is that often times the 3rd party is seen as the best alternative; "support the most" is different than support.

I support Romney much more than Obama but I'm not really a Romney fan. I like some things about Johnson more than Romney but I question his potential effectiveness in the job.
 
#13
#13
slh1089 said:
You should vote for the one that best represents your ideological leanings. Be it a 3rd party or not.
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Agree in principle but the consequence may be helping elect someone that least represents your ideological leanings.
 
#14
#14
volinbham said:
I support Romney much more than Obama but I'm not really a Romney fan. I like some things about Johnson more than Romney but I question his potential effectiveness in the job.
Click to expand...

just wondering how you can question Johnson's effectiveness but not Romney's? His resume kills Mitt's IMO
 
#15
#15
volinbham said:
Agree in principle but the consequence may be helping elect someone that least represents your ideological leanings.
Click to expand...

At this point it seems Romney getting elected is just slowing the train from 100 MPH to 70 MPH. Not too much of a change in my opinion.
 
#16
#16
Johnson is getting my vote.

I know Johnson isn't going to win, but I also don't see that as a vote for Obama.
 
#17
#17
Volst53 said:
Johnson is getting my vote.

I know Johnson isn't going to win, but I also don't see that as a vote for Obama.
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Depends on where you live. If the vote tally is close, it is a defacto vote for Obama. The effect is the same.
 
#19
#19
volinbham said:
Depends on where you live. If the vote tally is close, it is a defacto vote for Obama. The effect is the same.
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Romney is going to win Tennessee. I know voting for Johnson hurts Romney more than Obama, but Johnson matches my views the best.
 
#21
#21
Volst53 said:
Romney is going to win Tennessee. I know voting for Johnson hurts Romney more than Obama, but Johnson matches my views the best.
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I'm with you. I just threw this out for discussion and I've been playing devil's advocate to keep it going.

I'm in the same boat with Alabama - it won't matter if I vote Romney or not. They'll call it for him the second polls close.
 
#22
#22
If there is ever an election to vote 3rd party it is this one. I would love to see a 3rd, 4th and even a 5th party get the required (I think it is 3%, could be wrong) to be included in the election cycle next go around.
 
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#23
#23
That might be how it works out in the end, but imo, representative democracy is failing because of the two party system. And it will continue to fail as long as people only vote for the lesser of two evils.

And I like Gary Johnson, for his policies, resume, and independent thinking. We need leaders, not puppets.
 
#25
#25
volinbham said:
I'm with you. I just threw this out for discussion and I've been playing devil's advocate to keep it going.

I'm in the same boat with Alabama - it won't matter if I vote Romney or not. They'll call it for him the second polls close.
Click to expand...



I know, but they'll never be change that we want to see unless we vote for that change.
 
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