Is a vote for a 3rd party really a vote for a 3rd party?

#51
#51
GreveHaller said:
so youre saying that if Mitt gets in he'll be a 2 termer? Or is it that nothing will change whether its Mitt or Newt or whomever. Because that being said you can say the same about the direction changing 3rd party candidate too. Everything said is good in theory until you get in office and find out the reality of running the office. Even someone as extreme as a socialist party candidate would have to compromise their principles to get a few things done with the democrats and republicans.
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read up on what Johnson did while in office. I have more confidence in him than any other politician running

thing is, I used to hear all the time that people were "economic conservative, socially liberal" but when a candidate is presented they just can't pull the lever.
 
#52
#52
lawgator1 said:
Did you know that, if not ANOTHER Mexican EVER crossed the border, that by 2050 a third of the USA will be Hispanic, anyway? That Hispanic children in this country are being born at a rate of 9-1 compared to deaths of Hispanics, whereas with whites the ratio is 1-to-1?

So yeah, GOP, keep antagonizing Hispanic voters. Real good strategy you got there.
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Idiocracy (2006) - IMDb

Rasputin_Vol said:
I'll just move to Brazil.
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I'll be in Hawkins Co :)

(which I now find ironic when paired with my link above)
 
#53
#53
utvolpj said:
read up on what Johnson did while in office. I have more confidence in him than any other politician running

thing is, I used to hear all the time that people were "economic conservative, socially liberal" but when a candidate is presented they just can't pull the lever.
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They don't do it because they don't have any guts. Revolutions are started by radicals, not pragmatists.
 
#54
#54
volinbham said:
In another thread, a couple posters indicated they would not make a lesser of two evils vote but instead vote their conscience and go 3rd party.

I understand the logic but isn't that also a defacto vote for one of the two main candidates? The 3rd party is never truly a 3rd alternative and most commonly serves as a vote splitter from one side only.

So in voting your conscience aren't you indirectly supporting the side that is most ideologically different than you?

Eg. a vote for Johnson = a defacto vote for Obama?

I can see both sides of this argument - just thought I'd throw it out there.

(the other consideration is that if you are in a really red state then it doesn't have this effect but in a swing state it does)
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Valid points, and I believe this is true in the short run, but in the long run I don't see it as a throwaway vote. If Republicans are fed up with Romney-type candidates they need to signal that to the GOP by refusing to vote for their lesser of 2 evils BS. If you keep voting for Romneys/McCains/Bushes you're going to end up with the same **** product in the future.
 
#55
#55
Rasputin_Vol said:
Congress needs to go home also. 3rd party congressional candidates need to be supported as well.
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I'll tell you what - I'll give you $100 everytime a 3rd party candidate is elected to the house, senate, or POTUS and you give me $5 a democrat or republican is elected. Point is that its nice to "say" they need to go but in the real world it wont happen. 3rd parties have been around long before any of us were born and will be long after we die and they never do anything. Accept it and move on? no not at all but dont think "this is the year we do it" because it will never happen. I'd love for a good 3rd party candidate to come forward so I didnt have to vote for Mitt but I'd rather have a bad Mitt than a God-awful Big O.
 
#56
#56
GreveHaller said:
3rd parties have been around long before any of us were born and will be long after we die and they never do anything.
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The country hasn't gotten bad enough for people to be clammering for a 3rd option. Even now, there isn't much incentive or sense of urgency in the electorate to take austerity measures.

But don't worry... in about 10 more years (no matter if it is a second term of Obama or 2 terms of Romney), the country will be in that place where they will grow tired of the usual suspects...
 
#57
#57
yes lets rip open the chest of this country and pull out the heart and yell see see you needed a doctor, i told you so, heart disease.
 
#58
#58
NEOCON said:
yes lets rip open the chest of this country and pull out the heart and yell see see you needed a doctor, i told you so, heart disease.
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Do most people find religion when they have just hit the lottery or when they are on death row? When they are fit as a fiddle or when they are fighting for their life?

There is not enough incentive or urgency yet to take the steps needed to turn this thing around.
 
#59
#59
this country is already done.

It's not going back.


My only concern is that I have enough time left to make as much money possible to stick in accounts so when it does completely fall aprt my family is able to relocate if need be and we are ok.


I'm not voting for 50 years down the road because it wont matter. I'm voting to get another 10 in.

Just being honest.
 
#60
#60
NEOCON said:
this country is already done.

It's not going back.


My only concern is that I have enough time left to make as much money possible to stick in accounts so when it does completely fall aprt my family is able to relocate if need be and we are ok.


I'm not voting for 50 years down the road because it wont matter. I'm voting to get another 10 in.

Just being honest.
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Then you aren't fully invested in overall long term health of the country anyways if your window in just 10 years from now. So what's the point? That is the kind of attitude that got us where we are at right now. "Just let me get mine, and the people/generation behind me can clean up the mess..." LOL, guess what? The can has been kicked down the road and left somebody else to clean up for the last 50+ years. Sorry, but it looks like it is left to us to pay the tab or deal with it in another manner.

They pyramid scheme ends with us holding an empty bag...
 
#61
#61
I am actually quite surprised by many of the views posted in this thread. I think many are extremely naive and others are seemingly defiant for no apparent or logical reason.

Vbham is absolutely correct regardless of how anyone may want to spin it... at this point voting for anyone other than Obama or Romney is in fact supporting the candidate you would least want elected. If you favor one over the other, even if only slightly, then you should vote for him. If you clearly do not favor one over the other then you should just stay home and make the lines shorter for those of us who want our vote to count.

Anyone who thinks they are "sending a message" by voting third party needs a major dose of reality. Other than how it may affect them (which was I believe the OP's message), neither party cares if you decide to vote 3P or not vote at all. To both Dems and Pubs the end result is the same... it's either a vote they didn't get or their competition didn't get.

Now... I am very much in favor of a 3P rising up and hopefully waking up both the Dems and Pubs because they each need a major slap in the face. Unlike some, however, I think it is quite possible for this to happen and at some point (if things don't change) likely will happen. There have clearly been opportunities in the past when a 3P could have become a significant factor in a major election. You only need to look back as far as the creation of the Tea Party. Relatively speaking, they quickly rose to prominence. However, they never really delivered a key figure head that others could rally behind which seems to be the reoccurring failure of most third party movements. Michelle Bachmann??? Seriously??? How about Jesse Ventura... really???

If a Christie or Rubio were the figure heads for a 3P movement you would see a MAJOR swing in viability. When this happens, then we will see the rise of a third party.
 
#62
#62
IBlvNTmWrk said:
I am actually quite surprised by many of the views posted in this thread. I think many are extremely naive and others are seemingly defiant for no apparent or logical reason.

Vbham is absolutely correct regardless of how anyone may want to spin it... at this point voting for anyone other than Obama or Romney is in fact supporting the candidate you would least want elected. If you favor one over the other, even if only slightly, then you should vote for him. If you clearly do not favor one over the other then you should just stay home and make the lines shorter for those of us who want our vote to count.

Anyone who thinks they are "sending a message" by voting third party needs a major dose of reality. Other than how it may affect them (which was I believe the OP's message), neither party cares if you decide to vote 3P or not vote at all. To both Dems and Pubs the end result is the same... it's either a vote they didn't get or their competition didn't get.

Now... I am very much in favor of a 3P rising up and hopefully waking up both the Dems and Pubs because they each need a major slap in the face. Unlike some, however, I think it is quite possible for this to happen and at some point (if things don't change) likely will happen. There have clearly been opportunities in the past when a 3P could have become a significant factor in a major election. You only need to look back as far as the creation of the Tea Party. Relatively speaking, they quickly rose to prominence. However, they never really delivered a key figure head that others could rally behind which seems to be the reoccurring failure of most third party movements. Michelle Bachmann??? Seriously??? How about Jesse Ventura... really???

If a Christie or Rubio were the figure heads for a 3P movement you would see a MAJOR swing in viability. When this happens, then we will see the rise of a third party.
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So - to sum up this post - let's all continue to vote for turds and expect a different result?

No thanks; I'll vote third-party.
 
#63
#63
Pepe_Silvia said:
So - to sum up this post - let's all continue to vote for turds and expect a different result?

No thanks; I'll vote third-party.
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Please point to any part of my post where I said, or even implied, this. Otherwise, you may want to spend more time practicing your summation skills.
 
#65
#65
Rasputin_Vol said:
Then you aren't fully invested in overall long term health of the country anyways if your window in just 10 years from now. So what's the point? That is the kind of attitude that got us where we are at right now. "Just let me get mine, and the people/generation behind me can clean up the mess..." LOL, guess what? The can has been kicked down the road and left somebody else to clean up for the last 50+ years. Sorry, but it looks like it is left to us to pay the tab or deal with it in another manner.

They pyramid scheme ends with us holding an empty bag...
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The point I am making is that I have 0 faith that this country can be fixed at this point. Too many are on welfare. Too many have lost a work ethic. It's over people. Rome part 2 fell.
 
#66
#66
Really, the only way to send a message with your vote is to leave the POTUS box blank.
 
#67
#67
NEOCON said:
You guys are playing with fire when you think the country can take another 4 years of Obama.
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Congress is much more important than POTUS.

Unemployment at 99 -> congress
Minimum wage -> congress
Tax increases -> congress
Welfare -> congress

Veto -> POTUS

and the win goes to CONGRESS!!!!!!!!!

We long as the GOP owns the house, then nothing Obama wants can happen.
 
#68
#68
NEOCON said:
The point I am making is that I have 0 faith that this country can be fixed at this point. Too many are on welfare. Too many have lost a work ethic. It's over people. Rome part 2 fell.
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Why do you think this is a new problem? You dont think that every generation since 1776 has thought we're going into the crapper?

The bad thing about America is that we change and change is never widely accepted. The good thing about America is that we always overcome and make the best of it. Whether we fall deeper into the welfare state of Big O or a minimal government with Mitt, we will come out much better than any country in the world.
 
#69
#69
RespectTradition said:
Congress is much more important than POTUS.

Unemployment at 99 -> congress
Minimum wage -> congress
Tax increases -> congress
Welfare -> congress

Veto -> POTUS

and the win goes to CONGRESS!!!!!!!!!

We long as the GOP owns the house, then nothing Obama wants can happen.
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Yes, you are correct. But he can do other things (czars etc) that can seriously f this country up. He is finding ways to get around congress. Also, there is a very good chance the next President will pick a SCJ. If he gets to pick, we are f'd. I honestly find the ability to pick a SCJ the most powerful ability in America.
 
#70
#70
volinbham said:
This surprises me given your position on most issues.

You support another 4 years for Obama over Romney?
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Romney and Obama have very little that differentiates them except taxes and regulations. Even then, Romney is not a regulation-phobe, he is simply for different regs.

Foreign policy is essentially the same.
Mercantilist economics policies is basically the same.
The use of regulations to help favored industries/companies is about the same.
The list goes on...
 
#71
#71
GreveHaller said:
Why do you think this is a new problem? You dont think that every generation since 1776 has thought we're going into the crapper?

The bad thing about America is that we change and change is never widely accepted. The good thing about America is that we always overcome and make the best of it. Whether we fall deeper into the welfare state of Big O or a minimal government with Mitt, we will come out much better than any country in the world.
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we are not changing for the better. we are so indebt it's not even plausible at this point.
 
#72
#72
NEOCON said:
Yes, you are correct. But he can do other things (czars etc) that can seriously f this country up. He is finding ways to get around congress. Also, there is a very good chance the next President will pick a SCJ. If he gets to pick, we are f'd. I honestly find the ability to pick a SCJ the most powerful ability in America.
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Only with approval of the senate.
 
#73
#73
A vote for Johnson is a vote for Johnson, not Obama.

If you live in a blue state and you vote for Romney even though you know that Obama will win your state, have you really voted for Obama? It is no different if I vote for someone that I know will lose.

At least I am not a coward that is willing to compromise myself out of fear of Obama.
 
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