Is a vote for a 3rd party really a vote for a 3rd party?

#27
#27
In the beginning? Yes, you are correct, it is "throwing" your vote away.

However, the logic behind people being fed up with both parties and going for a third party candidate to avoid voting for the "lesser of the two evils" is akin to immediate versus long-term gratification. For the past couple election cycles, voters took the immediate gratification by going with a candidate in which they though their vote would matter. Having had a couple of election cycles to see where that gets them, voters are realizing that they have to sacrifice any possibility of an immediate gratification for any hope that they can incite a long-term beneficial change in the political structure of Washington.
 
#28
#28
volinbham said:
One more devil's advocate position. Unless you enthusiastically want the 3rd party candidate to be POTUS then all you've done is go from lesser of 2 evils to lesser of 3 evils. In the end, it is still a vote against rather than a vote for.
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If you are wanting me to vote for Romney, you are failing.

But if you want the honest answer, I would be voting FOR a 3rd party candidate and not voting AGAINST Obama. I vote the way I want my govt to legislate, in the affirmative. Just like I would rather vote for something than against it, govt should legislate in a way to give us more freedom, not prohibiting freedoms.
 
#30
#30
volinbham said:
In another thread, a couple posters indicated they would not make a lesser of two evils vote but instead vote their conscience and go 3rd party.

I understand the logic but isn't that also a defacto vote for one of the two main candidates? The 3rd party is never truly a 3rd alternative and most commonly serves as a vote splitter from one side only.

So in voting your conscience aren't you indirectly supporting the side that is most ideologically different than you?

Eg. a vote for Johnson = a defacto vote for Obama?

I can see both sides of this argument - just thought I'd throw it out there.

(the other consideration is that if you are in a really red state then it doesn't have this effect but in a swing state it does)
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I like you.

Respect you.

But aren't you one of the ones I was saying not to vote third party because it would be a vote for Obama?

Maybe I'm wrong but I coulda swore this happened.
 
#32
#32
Obama or Romney never had my vote to begin with, so how does what I do either hurt or help one candidate over the other?

You can't lose what you never had...
 
#33
#33
NEOCON said:
You guys are playing with fire when you think the country can take another 4 years of Obama.
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And that will be the debate within some of the more conservative corners of the GOP over the next 6 months -- is getting rid of Obama by continuing to support status quo nominees worth it?

Surely, some portion of those who think the party has drifted to far too the center will literally brag about and advertise not voting for Romney because they think the only way to win back the party to the right is to prevent it from winning the WH with a centrist candidate.

I mean, my gosh, the man is on record as having championed the great boogeyman of the individual mandate.
 
#36
#36
Another thing to ask yourself is are you fine with who is in the white house and the direction he is taking our country. Reason being that in reality a 3rd party will not win. Sure it would be fun being that the US always pulls for an underdog but in politics it just doesnt work that way. Dont look at it as how much better will our country be if that 3rd party candidate won but look on it as what if he doesnt. Will you be ok with another 4 yrs of Big O? What if it was Mitt? This isnt the early 90s when it was Bill running for a 2nd term and the country was doing ok. Personally I'm pulling for Mitt because I do not think we can afford to have Big O another 4 years. As a lame duck POTUS he could do even more damage that the first 3.5 yrs. Do I agree on Mitt's stances? No but I'd rather have him that what we've been thru.

Big O is doing exactly what needs to be done. In his first years he did all the unpopular things - healthcare act and passing a so called stimulus that stimulated nothing. Now we're less than a year and he's playing it on the 'what have you done for me lately' vote. Gas has gone thru the roof since he's been in office and only now is he looking into it. He's finally gotten around to pulling troops out. All things where he can go "see what I did?". All things he said he'd get on if he were elected and its take more than half his term to even start.

Before you start wanting to cast that Green party or Libertarian vote, better make sure the worst case will be ok for you. It sure isnt for me.
 
#37
#37
NEOCON said:
You guys are playing with fire when you think the country can take another 4 years of Obama.
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we can't afford to sit for the next decade while the same old politicians take office. Eventually things have to change and personally I've chosen this election to seriously change my voting habits. I've always told myself that if there is a candidate I truly believe in then I will vote for them. Unfortunately he doesn't have much of a chance but he does exist
 
#38
#38
volinbham said:
This surprises me given your position on most issues.

You support another 4 years for Obama over Romney?
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I'm not supporting Obama. I'm supporting my candidate or my personal platform (or the closest candidate to it). Romney is nowhere near conservative enough to be considered and he is not going to take the appropriate measures. We need some outside of the box thinking and borderline (if not cross the line) austerity measures in this country.

Neither of these clowns are gonna do that.
 
#39
#39
slh1089 said:
At this point it seems Romney getting elected is just slowing the train from 100 MPH to 70 MPH. Not too much of a change in my opinion.
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Well if you are driving a team of runaway mules you have to slow them down before you can get them stopped.

earvotersobama.jpg
 
#40
#40
GreveHaller said:
Another thing to ask yourself is are you fine with who is in the white house and the direction he is taking our country. Reason being that in reality a 3rd party will not win. Sure it would be fun being that the US always pulls for an underdog but in politics it just doesnt work that way. Dont look at it as how much better will our country be if that 3rd party candidate won but look on it as what if he doesnt. Will you be ok with another 4 yrs of Big O? What if it was Mitt? This isnt the early 90s when it was Bill running for a 2nd term and the country was doing ok. Personally I'm pulling for Mitt because I do not think we can afford to have Big O another 4 years. As a lame duck POTUS he could do even more damage that the first 3.5 yrs. Do I agree on Mitt's stances? No but I'd rather have him that what we've been thru.

Big O is doing exactly what needs to be done. In his first years he did all the unpopular things - healthcare act and passing a so called stimulus that stimulated nothing. Now we're less than a year and he's playing it on the 'what have you done for me lately' vote. Gas has gone thru the roof since he's been in office and only now is he looking into it. He's finally gotten around to pulling troops out. All things where he can go "see what I did?". All things he said he'd get on if he were elected and its take more than half his term to even start.

Before you start wanting to cast that Green party or Libertarian vote, better make sure the worst case will be ok for you. It sure isnt for me.
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We can either drive over the cliff at a leisurely pace (Romney) or go balls to the wall over the edge (Obama). The only thing that changes is the pace, not the end result between those two.

I'ld rather vote for someone that is going to change direction.
 
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#41
#41
gsvol said:
Well if you are driving a team of runaway mules you have to slow them down before you can get them stopped.

earvotersobama.jpg
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Shoot the lead mule in the head and you'll create a pile up.

Then you get on a horse and change directions.
 
#42
#42
Rasputin_Vol said:
We can either drive over the cliff at a leisurely pace (Romney) or go balls to the wall over the edge (Obama). The only think that changes is the pace, not the end result between those two.

I'ld rather vote for someone that is going to change direction.
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Do I think a 3rd party could make that direction change? oh, probably a good chance. Will your vote do it? no. Will all the votes for that candidate do it? again, no. Is it worth the risk of having Big O for another 4 years for casting a vote for someone that would change direction but wont win? Big f____ng NO.

I'll take the leisurely pace over the cliff with the possiblity of change in 4yrs over the quickened pace Big O and his cast of village idiots.
 
#43
#43
GreveHaller said:
Is it worth the risk of having Big O for another 4 years for casting a vote for someone that would change direction but wont win?
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like an addict, sometimes you have to hit rock bottom before you can get better. Pretty good chance we'll be close once O is done with the USA

GreveHaller said:
with the possiblity of change in 4yrs
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doesn't really exist
 
#44
#44
utvolpj said:
we can't afford to sit for the next decade while the same old politicians take office. Eventually things have to change and personally I've chosen this election to seriously change my voting habits. I've always told myself that if there is a candidate I truly believe in then I will vote for them. Unfortunately he doesn't have much of a chance but he does exist
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People dont understand what most of us employers are going through. I pay 9-13.00 per hour. You have to bust butt but 13.00 is achievable. All of my staff are HS graduates, not college workers. I cant even max out my business because unemployement is up to 99 weeks now and you can take home 8 dollars an hour on unemployment in the state of TN.

Why work for me at 11 when you can stay home for 8 after tax?

The other issue I have is my employees know the cut of for when they lose their big 10,000 tax returns or benefits. When they get close they begin calling off sick. I have more people pretend to be sick just to keep on welfare.

Right now I am having to use halfway houses and ORC programs where someone has to work or they are kicked out of the house. Over 60% of my staff are of this kind.

Obama has created a welfare state. It is forcing businesses like mine that employ blue collar people with limited skill sets to not have a candidate pool anymore.

This is just one example.

Lastly, lets say you prove your point but but the time you do so many businesses have pulled out that there are no jobs to even go back to? This could happen.
 
#45
#45
GreveHaller said:
Do I think a 3rd party could make that direction change? oh, probably a good chance. Will your vote do it? no. Will all the votes for that candidate do it? again, no. Is it worth the risk of having Big O for another 4 years for casting a vote for someone that would change direction but wont win? Big f____ng NO.

I'll take the leisurely pace over the cliff with the possiblity of change in 4yrs over the quickened pace Big O and his cast of village idiots.
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Once Obama is re-elected (I'm calling it), you and I will be on the same page 4 years from now. You don't want real change bad enough right now, so you have to suffer a lil bit more to see the error in your ways.
 
#46
#46
utvolpj said:
like an addict, sometimes you have to hit rock bottom before you can get better. Pretty good chance we'll be close once O is done with the USA



doesn't really exist
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so youre saying that if Mitt gets in he'll be a 2 termer? Or is it that nothing will change whether its Mitt or Newt or whomever. Because that being said you can say the same about the direction changing 3rd party candidate too. Everything said is good in theory until you get in office and find out the reality of running the office. Even someone as extreme as a socialist party candidate would have to compromise their principles to get a few things done with the democrats and republicans.
 
#47
#47
NEOCON said:
Obama has created a welfare state. It is forcing businesses like mine that employ blue collar people with limited skill sets to not have a candidate pool anymore.
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while I think he's worthless, to claim he created the welfare state is wrong. It's been growing for a long time and he's just leading the train now. He is not doing anything to stop it but he didn't start it

NEOCON said:
Lastly, lets say you prove your point but but the time you do so many businesses have pulled out that there are no jobs to even go back to? This could happen.
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then I adapt and do what I can. I'm no doomsday prepper but I do have land and skills enough to support my family
 
#48
#48
GreveHaller said:
so youre saying that if Mitt gets in he'll be a 2 termer? Or is it that nothing will change whether its Mitt or Newt or whomever. Because that being said you can say the same about the direction changing 3rd party candidate too. Everything said is good in theory until you get in office and find out the reality of running the office. Even someone as extreme as a socialist party candidate would have to compromise their principles to get a few things done with the democrats and republicans.
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Congress needs to go home also. 3rd party congressional candidates need to be supported as well.
 
#49
#49
gsvol said:
Well if you are driving a team of runaway mules you have to slow them down before you can get them stopped.

earvotersobama.jpg
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Did you know that, if not ANOTHER Mexican EVER crossed the border, that by 2050 a third of the USA will be Hispanic, anyway? That Hispanic children in this country are being born at a rate of 9-1 compared to deaths of Hispanics, whereas with whites the ratio is 1-to-1?

So yeah, GOP, keep antagonizing Hispanic voters. Real good strategy you got there.
 
#50
#50
utvolpj said:
while I think he's worthless, to claim he created the welfare state is wrong. It's been growing for a long time and he's just leading the train now. He is not doing anything to stop it but he didn't start it



then I adapt and do what I can. I'm no doomsday prepper but I do have land and skills enough to support my family
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I'll just move to Brazil.
 
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