Is Heupel too loyal?

[Checker_the_Shire]

I’d love to get other’s thoughts on Heupel’s loyalty to his players. Is he too loyal? Putting Milton talk aside and looking at the Mincey “suspension”, then Hadden’s consistent playing time, inconsistent/mediocre players getting more reps than others, and discipline issues on the team, it just seems like there’s a huge lack of discipline going on. And maybe loyalty isn’t the best word choice, but I’m genuinely curious your all’s take on this.
And to add, there’s nothing wrong with being loyal to your guys, but it just feels to me that Heupel is afraid of disciplining at times.

 

[Old Spice]

somewhere a Hooker just laughed

 

[Checker_the_Shire]

lol

I’m being genuine here. Maybe loyal is the wrong word. But I just get the sense he’s too afraid to discipline at times, and that’s concerning.

 

[camp_steveo]

The answer I give for interview question, "what is your biggest weakness?"

 

[Old Spice]

I’m being genuine here. Maybe loyal is the wrong word. But I just get the sense he’s too afraid to discipline at times, and that’s concerning.

I edited my post

 

[Checker_the_Shire]

The answer I give for interview question, "what is your biggest weakness?"

Do you also say you work too hard and care too much? Because you see, David, my weaknesses are actually my strengths.

 

[chattavol420]

I’ve kind of said the same thing for the last couple of years. Once guys get on the field their jobs are never in jeopardy. You almost never see personnel changes. I think he places so much value on their knowledge of the playbook and the reps they have been given that he just has trouble pulling the trigger on changes. It’s most obvious, of course, at quarterback. Milton was so bad to start Heupel’s tenure here, and yet no other quarterback ever took a snap until he was injured. That’s not typically the way new incoming coaches play that situation. Typically coaches will give multiple quarterbacks playing time until one player has convincingly won the job with his in gameplay. That’s ironically exactly the way Tom Allen has handled the quarterback situation at Indiana with Trevon Jackson.
Make no mistake about it… Heupel’s has made a mistake with Milton. I don’t give a crap what anybody says. It is the truth. Milton has never been a good player. Ever. Not here. Not at Michigan. I fully expected Heupel to encourage Milton to look around after that first year. He had to four seasons to prepare for life after milton. A huge percentage of the fans expected this season to go exactly the way it went. Milton is going to play like garbage and Heupel is just going to stick with him until the season is just a complete and utter disaster.
That’s all not to say I don’t believe he’s not still, the best coach we’ve had here in a long time and a spectacular offensive strategist. But this is a flaw in his coaching resume. If you don’t have a quarterback… You won’t have a good team. It’s just that simple. And you don’t know if you have a quarterback, based on how he carries himself at practice or in the film room. You have to throw him under the bright lights and see if he’s able to process all the information necessary. It doesn’t take long to recognize if a guy has it or not. We recognized hooker had it within just a couple of quarters of playing. It took about that same amount of time to recognize Milton didn’t have it. Yep three years later here we are… Still hoping the coach will put somebody else out there.

 

[camp_steveo]

Do you also say you work too hard and care too much? Because you see, David, my weaknesses are actually my strengths.

I also don't charge for overtime because I love the extra experience I gain from it!

 

[vavolfan6]

I’d love to get other’s thoughts on Heupel’s loyalty to his players. Is he too loyal? Putting Milton talk aside and looking at the Mincey “suspension”, then Hadden’s consistent playing time, inconsistent/mediocre players getting more reps than others, and discipline issues on the team, it just seems like there’s a huge lack of discipline going on. And maybe loyalty isn’t the best word choice, but I’m genuinely curious your all’s take on this.
And to add, there’s nothing wrong with being loyal to your guys, but it just feels to me that Heupel is afraid of disciplining at times.

OP, I think you raise a valid concern. Its one that had crossed my mind too. But I think its out of genuine care and love Huepel has for his players that he is willing to give them an extra benefit of the doubt. He is willing to stick with his guys for better or for worse, or at least longer than he probably should.

Right now, Huepel has earned the extra grace to do so. So he is going to be loyal. The pressure gets heated up though as expectations aren't met.

So, yes. I do agree that he is a bit extra loyal to his players. But I don't think it is quite aggregious yet. And while it has hurt us in some instances, Huepel's genuine care for his players is why the culture and program has turned around so quickly. Gotta take the good with the bad for now until the bad outweighs the good.

 

[Checker_the_Shire]

I’ve kind of said the same thing for the last couple of years. Once guys get on the field their jobs are never in jeopardy. You almost never see personnel changes. I think he places so much value on their knowledge of the playbook and the reps they have been given that he just has trouble pulling the trigger on changes. It’s most obvious, of course, at quarterback. Milton was so bad to start Heupel’s tenure here, and yet no other quarterback ever took a snap until he was injured. That’s not typically the way new incoming coaches play that situation. Typically coaches will give multiple quarterbacks playing time until one player has convincingly won the job with his in gameplay. That’s ironically exactly the way Tom Allen has handled the quarterback situation at Indiana with Trevon Jackson.
Make no mistake about it… Heupel’s has made a mistake with Milton. I don’t give a crap what anybody says. It is the truth. Milton has never been a good player. Ever. Not here. Not at Michigan. I fully expected Heupel to encourage Milton to look around after that first year. He had to four seasons to prepare for life after milton. A huge percentage of the fans expected this season to go exactly the way it went. Milton is going to play like garbage and Heupel is just going to stick with him until the season is just a complete and utter disaster.
That’s all not to say I don’t believe he’s not still, the best coach we’ve had here in a long time and a spectacular offensive strategist. But this is a flaw in his coaching resume. If you don’t have a quarterback… You won’t have a good team. It’s just that simple. And you don’t know if you have a quarterback, based on how he carries himself at practice or in the film room. You have to throw him under the bright lights and see if he’s able to process all the information necessary. It doesn’t take long to recognize if a guy has it or not. We recognized hooker had it within just a couple of quarters of playing. It took about that same amount of time to recognize Milton didn’t have it. Yep three years later here we are… Still hoping the coach will put somebody else out there.

So I wanted to avoid Milton, because although I agree with you on just about every point, I also think Milton looks like trash right now because anyone would look like trash behind that oline. Even Caleb Williams would be struggling, and he’s a favorite for a heisman repeat. However, since you brought him up, he is another example of the loyalty issue because you’re right, he doesn’t have it and everyone knows he doesn’t have it. But I look at others too. For example, Sampson. The dude killed it in game one, and didn’t even touch the ball on Saturday. Now maybe he’s hurt and I missed that, but just feels off to me.

 

[Voltopia]

I don't think anyone here has the first clue what Heupel is "afraid of," if he's even afraid of anything. In fact, unless someone's actually in the practice building, attending meetings, and sitting in on staff discussions, I don't think anyone here knows much of any damn thing about what's going on in either Heupel's head or in the collective decision-making of the staff. But boy do people sure do think they know.

When the team does well, everyone thinks the coaches are smart. When the team sucks, everyone thinks the coaches are morons. Never mind that it's the same coaches. There's no time to think rationally when there's football crap to complain about on a message board.

 

[Checker_the_Shire]

OP, I think you raise a valid concern. Its one that had crossed my mind too. But I think its out of genuine care and love Huepel has for his players that he is willing to give them an extra benefit of the doubt. He is willing to stick with his guys for better or for worse, or at least longer than he probably should.

Right now, Huepel has earned the extra grace to do so. So he is going to be loyal. The pressure gets heated up though as expectations aren't met.

So, yes. I do agree that he is a bit extra loyal to his players. But I don't think it is quite aggregious yet. And while it has hurt us in some instances, Huepel's genuine care for his players is why the culture and program has turned around so quickly. Gotta take the good with the bad for now until the bad outweighs the good.

It’s absolutely a catch-22. He’s developed a strong culture that everyone in that building relates to and builds off of. But as you said, eventually that loyalty, love, appreciation, whatever we want to call if is going to have to go away and tough decisions need to be made.

I didn’t even mention his staff, but at some point Banks is going to have to either be let go or given some ultimatums.

 

[Checker_the_Shire]

I don't think anyone here has the first clue what Heupel is "afraid of," if he's even afraid of anything. In fact, unless someone's actually in the practice building, attending meetings, and sitting in on staff discussions, I don't think anyone here knows much of any damn thing about what's going on in either Heupel's head or in the collective decision-making of the staff. But boy do people sure do think they know.

When the team does well, everyone thinks the coaches are smart. When the team sucks, everyone thinks the coaches are morons. Never mind that it's the same coaches. There's no time to think rationally when there's football crap to complain about on a message board.

Hey now, just to clarify, this is not a bashing Heupel post. Or even hating on him in any way. I’m just genuinely interested in other fans’ thoughts on loyalty and if that could be playing a role in the decision making of Heupel and company.

 

[sonofUT62]

I’d love to get other’s thoughts on Heupel’s loyalty to his players. Is he too loyal? Putting Milton talk aside and looking at the Mincey “suspension”, then Hadden’s consistent playing time, inconsistent/mediocre players getting more reps than others, and discipline issues on the team, it just seems like there’s a huge lack of discipline going on. And maybe loyalty isn’t the best word choice, but I’m genuinely curious your all’s take on this.
And to add, there’s nothing wrong with being loyal to your guys, but it just feels to me that Heupel is afraid of disciplining at times.

I’ve thought the same thing. Then I remembered that after Callaway dropped that gimme 4th down 2 years ago, he basically spent his remaining 15 months in Knoxville on a milk carton.

 

[Vol4gzus]

Wow! Out of 14 posts as of this hr. 6 are by the poster originator. Hmmmm...

 

[Checker_the_Shire]

Wow! Out of 14 posts as of this hr. 6 are by the poster originator. Hmmmm...

Yea it’s called striking up conversations and taking a break from working. God forbid people do that

 

[sjt18]

I’d love to get other’s thoughts on Heupel’s loyalty to his players. Is he too loyal? Putting Milton talk aside and looking at the Mincey “suspension”, then Hadden’s consistent playing time, inconsistent/mediocre players getting more reps than others, and discipline issues on the team, it just seems like there’s a huge lack of discipline going on. And maybe loyalty isn’t the best word choice, but I’m genuinely curious your all’s take on this.
And to add, there’s nothing wrong with being loyal to your guys, but it just feels to me that Heupel is afraid of disciplining at times.

No. He is not too loyal... at least by anything we've seen so far.

If guys earn PT in practice, they play. They're putting the guys out there that they believe give them the best chance to win. Heupel wants to win and doesn't want to be fired. That's his motive. How you treat your guys and the mutual loyalty you have is a long term investment. So no, he isn't likely to toss them aside easily.

Discipline issues on the team? You think this is "discipline issues"? Most if not all SEC teams have had worse in the last year. You must not be old enough to remember Fulmer's last few years, right?

UT has had remarkably FEW discipline issues since Heupel arrived and they've dealt with them pretty well.

 

[The Tall Gguy]

Is Dooley too loyal, is Butch too loyal, is Pruitt too loyal, is Heupel too loyal. Same conversation every coach.

 

[VolDaddy61]

I’d love to get other’s thoughts on Heupel’s loyalty to his players. Is he too loyal? Putting Milton talk aside and looking at the Mincey “suspension”, then Hadden’s consistent playing time, inconsistent/mediocre players getting more reps than others, and discipline issues on the team, it just seems like there’s a huge lack of discipline going on. And maybe loyalty isn’t the best word choice, but I’m genuinely curious your all’s take on this.
And to add, there’s nothing wrong with being loyal to your guys, but it just feels to me that Heupel is afraid of disciplining at times.

Without knowing any of the facts, I would find it hard pressed to believe any coach would play anyone they didn't feel would help them win, it goes against everyone's best interests.

 

[ChrisVFL]

I think it’s time for Heup to have the to conversation with Milton . “Can you you perfect?” Just watched Friday Night Lights! One of My all time favs. At the begging a fan in the radio says, “ It’s going to be one hell of a year, Winchell is going to take us all the way” . Feel like that’s how along of us felt this year with Milton. Is it sad that I still tear up watching Friday Night Lights?

 

[unfrozencvmanvol]

Is Dooley too loyal, is Butch too loyal, is Pruitt too loyal, is Heupel too loyal. Same conversation every coach.

It's part of the mental coping process, when you have previously put all your eggs in a coach's basket, these kind of criticisms, which partly compliment the coach come easiest at first.

 

[VOLfrombama]

No. He is not too loyal... at least by anything we've seen so far.

If guys earn PT in practice, they play. They're putting the guys out there that they believe give them the best chance to win. Heupel wants to win and doesn't want to be fired. That's his motive. How you treat your guys and the mutual loyalty you have is a long term investment. So no, he isn't likely to toss them aside easily.

Discipline issues on the team? You think this is "discipline issues"? Most if not all SEC teams have had worse in the last year. You must not be old enough to remember Fulmer's last few years, right?

UT has had remarkably FEW discipline issues since Heupel arrived and they've dealt with them pretty well.

I agree about the off the field discipline, but his on field discipline leaves a lot to be desired.

Currently the Vols are ties with Colorado for 107th in fewest penalty yards per game. They are second only to Arkansas in the SEC, with 24 penalties for 202 yards or 66.7 per game.

That’s the type of discipline that I question.

 

[CornbreadVol]

I’ve kind of said the same thing for the last couple of years. Once guys get on the field their jobs are never in jeopardy. You almost never see personnel changes. I think he places so much value on their knowledge of the playbook and the reps they have been given that he just has trouble pulling the trigger on changes. It’s most obvious, of course, at quarterback. Milton was so bad to start Heupel’s tenure here, and yet no other quarterback ever took a snap until he was injured. That’s not typically the way new incoming coaches play that situation. Typically coaches will give multiple quarterbacks playing time until one player has convincingly won the job with his in gameplay. That’s ironically exactly the way Tom Allen has handled the quarterback situation at Indiana with Trevon Jackson.
Make no mistake about it… Heupel’s has made a mistake with Milton. I don’t give a crap what anybody says. It is the truth. Milton has never been a good player. Ever. Not here. Not at Michigan. I fully expected Heupel to encourage Milton to look around after that first year. He had to four seasons to prepare for life after milton. A huge percentage of the fans expected this season to go exactly the way it went. Milton is going to play like garbage and Heupel is just going to stick with him until the season is just a complete and utter disaster.
That’s all not to say I don’t believe he’s not still, the best coach we’ve had here in a long time and a spectacular offensive strategist. But this is a flaw in his coaching resume. If you don’t have a quarterback… You won’t have a good team. It’s just that simple. And you don’t know if you have a quarterback, based on how he carries himself at practice or in the film room. You have to throw him under the bright lights and see if he’s able to process all the information necessary. It doesn’t take long to recognize if a guy has it or not. We recognized hooker had it within just a couple of quarters of playing. It took about that same amount of time to recognize Milton didn’t have it. Yep three years later here we are… Still hoping the coach will put somebody else out there.

Milton isn’t close to our biggest problem dude

 

[bofa25]

I’ve kind of said the same thing for the last couple of years. Once guys get on the field their jobs are never in jeopardy. You almost never see personnel changes. I think he places so much value on their knowledge of the playbook and the reps they have been given that he just has trouble pulling the trigger on changes. It’s most obvious, of course, at quarterback. Milton was so bad to start Heupel’s tenure here, and yet no other quarterback ever took a snap until he was injured. That’s not typically the way new incoming coaches play that situation. Typically coaches will give multiple quarterbacks playing time until one player has convincingly won the job with his in gameplay. That’s ironically exactly the way Tom Allen has handled the quarterback situation at Indiana with Trevon Jackson.
Make no mistake about it… Heupel’s has made a mistake with Milton. I don’t give a crap what anybody says. It is the truth. Milton has never been a good player. Ever. Not here. Not at Michigan. I fully expected Heupel to encourage Milton to look around after that first year. He had to four seasons to prepare for life after milton. A huge percentage of the fans expected this season to go exactly the way it went. Milton is going to play like garbage and Heupel is just going to stick with him until the season is just a complete and utter disaster.
That’s all not to say I don’t believe he’s not still, the best coach we’ve had here in a long time and a spectacular offensive strategist. But this is a flaw in his coaching resume. If you don’t have a quarterback… You won’t have a good team. It’s just that simple. And you don’t know if you have a quarterback, based on how he carries himself at practice or in the film room. You have to throw him under the bright lights and see if he’s able to process all the information necessary. It doesn’t take long to recognize if a guy has it or not. We recognized hooker had it within just a couple of quarters of playing. It took about that same amount of time to recognize Milton didn’t have it. Yep three years later here we are… Still hoping the coach will put somebody else out there.

What cracks me up about all of this is it was completely avoidable. People were so angry when fans were saying we needed a transfer quarterback. People were blinded by Milton because of the Clemson and Vanderbilt game. Heupel has mismanaged quarterbacks since he’s gotten here. I think that’s an unavoidable fact at this point.

 

[Raebo]

Doubt it is loyalty. Maybe there are some favorites he might play over someone else if they have equal ability in his/staffs mind. For example that guy that comes to practice early and stays late, the guy that practices hard, the guy that follows team rules, the guy that helps and encourages his roommates, the guy that treats student managers with respect, the guy that has been there 3/4 years and never caused problems, etc..
Yes he may be a little bit more forgivping of certain players but he is probably “loyal” to Dan White, administration, staff who expect him to follow the rules and put the best team possiBle on the field.
But I am in no position to know who would be the best game day players.