Is Heupel too loyal?

#28
#28
TeacherVol007 said:
I’d love to get other’s thoughts on Heupel’s loyalty to his players. Is he too loyal? Putting Milton talk aside and looking at the Mincey “suspension”, then Hadden’s consistent playing time, inconsistent/mediocre players getting more reps than others, and discipline issues on the team, it just seems like there’s a huge lack of discipline going on. And maybe loyalty isn’t the best word choice, but I’m genuinely curious your all’s take on this.
And to add, there’s nothing wrong with being loyal to your guys, but it just feels to me that Heupel is afraid of disciplining at times.
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Loyal is the perfect word of choice. Let’s put aside all the players and look at his coaches. It appears that Martinez and Banks can do no wrong. Martinez group has been terrible the entire time he has been back on campus. Banks defnese has been good at times and other times have been terrible. Banks defense is more inconsistent as Milton passing. Part of the reason the players are bad is because of the coaches. At some point you have to blame the couches for the players lack of ability and sitll getting ran out there.
 
#31
#31
chattavol420 said:
I’ve kind of said the same thing for the last couple of years. Once guys get on the field their jobs are never in jeopardy. You almost never see personnel changes. I think he places so much value on their knowledge of the playbook and the reps they have been given that he just has trouble pulling the trigger on changes. It’s most obvious, of course, at quarterback. Milton was so bad to start Heupel’s tenure here, and yet no other quarterback ever took a snap until he was injured. That’s not typically the way new incoming coaches play that situation. Typically coaches will give multiple quarterbacks playing time until one player has convincingly won the job with his in gameplay. That’s ironically exactly the way Tom Allen has handled the quarterback situation at Indiana with Trevon Jackson.
Make no mistake about it… Heupel’s has made a mistake with Milton. I don’t give a crap what anybody says. It is the truth. Milton has never been a good player. Ever. Not here. Not at Michigan. I fully expected Heupel to encourage Milton to look around after that first year. He had to four seasons to prepare for life after milton. A huge percentage of the fans expected this season to go exactly the way it went. Milton is going to play like garbage and Heupel is just going to stick with him until the season is just a complete and utter disaster.
That’s all not to say I don’t believe he’s not still, the best coach we’ve had here in a long time and a spectacular offensive strategist. But this is a flaw in his coaching resume. If you don’t have a quarterback… You won’t have a good team. It’s just that simple. And you don’t know if you have a quarterback, based on how he carries himself at practice or in the film room. You have to throw him under the bright lights and see if he’s able to process all the information necessary. It doesn’t take long to recognize if a guy has it or not. We recognized hooker had it within just a couple of quarters of playing. It took about that same amount of time to recognize Milton didn’t have it. Yep three years later here we are… Still hoping the coach will put somebody else out there.
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I agree with a lot of what you said. There are players who simply need to be removed from the starting lineup. I also agree, and have said so elsewhere, that hitching your wagon to Milton was a mistake. I truly felt like we needed a 1 year guy from the portal to come in and keep the train on the tracks while Nico matured. Like you, I believe that Milton is a finished product and this is as good as he'll be. One point in defense of Heupel sticking with Milton. Given the awful OL play and the youth/inexperience of Nico, I can see why he's not made a change yet. Frankly, Milton's numbers and play are decent. Not nearly as bad as what Bama is going through. You just can't throw a true freshman in behind that OL at this point in the season. Maybe Nico ends up the starter this year, but when you have a talent like Nico, you groom him and bring him along slowly, safely and with his future in mind. He's not the kind of recruit you take chances with. We've seen some kids here thrown into the fires too early with devastating results. No need to do that with Nico on this years team. Way too many deficiencies and the ceiling for this bunch is 7-8 wins. With Nico, eyes on the future. Give him several series a game going forward. Same for a whole bunch of youngsters on this roster. Take your lumps this year...which we all knew were coming...and season the young talent for next year. And get a long damned list of OL targets for the portal.
 
#33
#33
TeacherVol007 said:
Yea it’s called striking up conversations and taking a break from working. God forbid people do that 😰
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Oh! I thought most threads were to get others feedback and not an ongoing respond and defend as this one was/appears. God has better things to do than defend a thread on UT futbol.
 
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#35
#35
bofa25 said:
What cracks me up about all of this is it was completely avoidable. People were so angry when fans were saying we needed a transfer quarterback. People were blinded by Milton because of the Clemson and Vanderbilt game. Heupel has mismanaged quarterbacks since he’s gotten here. I think that’s an unavoidable fact at this point.
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Help me here as he has "mismanaged quarterbacks since he's gotten here". I'm open to your enlightenment on this alleged faux pas with qb's. We weren't blinded by vandee or clemp n son. Played good in both. Had Darnell Wright at Lt and Cooper Mays at center as you might recall. Blocking can go a long way in assisting a qb in play execution. Just saying...
 
#36
#36
VolMarine1371 said:
Loyal is the perfect word of choice. Let’s put aside all the players and look at his coaches. It appears that Martinez and Banks can do no wrong. Martinez group has been terrible the entire time he has been back on campus. Banks defnese has been good at times and other times have been terrible. Banks defense is more inconsistent as Milton passing. Part of the reason the players are bad is because of the coaches. At some point you have to blame the couches for the players lack of ability and sitll getting ran
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#37
#37
bofa25 said:
What cracks me up about all of this is it was completely avoidable. People were so angry when fans were saying we needed a transfer quarterback. People were blinded by Milton because of the Clemson and Vanderbilt game. Heupel has mismanaged quarterbacks since he’s gotten here. I think that’s an unavoidable fact at this point.
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Not sure how you come to that conclusion. Heupel could’ve put Milton back in over Hooker once he was healthy but he didn’t and it didn’t cause a locker room issue when he didn’t. I’d say he managed that well.
 
#38
#38
TeacherVol007 said:
I’d love to get other’s thoughts on Heupel’s loyalty to his players. Is he too loyal? Putting Milton talk aside and looking at the Mincey “suspension”, then Hadden’s consistent playing time, inconsistent/mediocre players getting more reps than others, and discipline issues on the team, it just seems like there’s a huge lack of discipline going on. And maybe loyalty isn’t the best word choice, but I’m genuinely curious your all’s take on this.
And to add, there’s nothing wrong with being loyal to your guys, but it just feels to me that Heupel is afraid of disciplining at times.
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He can’t be afraid of disciplining and at the same time suspend players for one of the biggest games of the season.
 
#40
#40
Vol4gzus said:
Oh! I thought most threads were to get others feedback and not an ongoing respond and defend as this one was/appears. God has better things to do than defend a thread on UT futbol.
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You clearly have too much time on your hands if you’re seriously criticizing my posting habits. I’d recommend praying to G-zus, maybe he’ll fix my wayward ways.
 
#41
#41
bofa25 said:
What cracks me up about all of this is it was completely avoidable. People were so angry when fans were saying we needed a transfer quarterback. People were blinded by Milton because of the Clemson and Vanderbilt game. Heupel has mismanaged quarterbacks since he’s gotten here. I think that’s an unavoidable fact at this point.
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I hope he can mismanage another quarterback into what should’ve been an invitation to New York for the Heisman ceremony .He turned Hendon Hooker into a Heisman contender, and despite what all of the geniuses in this thread seem to think, Milton is actually serviceable. Does Milton need some more help than Hendon? Yeah. Is he getting it? Not even close. We’re missing 3 starters from last years O line. 2 in the NFL and our best, most important lineman is recovering from a hernia surgery. There’s a lot of improvements to be made by a lot of people, but it doesn’t begin and end with Milton.
 
#42
#42
TeacherVol007 said:
Who did he suspend? If you say Mincey, I’m calling BS because the kid still played on special teams, which is not a suspension.
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Umm he’s our best RT and he didn’t play at that position all game. Call BS though bc that entire game was absolute BS
 
#43
#43
TeacherVol007 said:
I’d love to get other’s thoughts on Heupel’s loyalty to his players. Is he too loyal? Putting Milton talk aside and looking at the Mincey “suspension”, then Hadden’s consistent playing time, inconsistent/mediocre players getting more reps than others, and discipline issues on the team, it just seems like there’s a huge lack of discipline going on. And maybe loyalty isn’t the best word choice, but I’m genuinely curious your all’s take on this.
And to add, there’s nothing wrong with being loyal to your guys, but it just feels to me that Heupel is afraid of disciplining at times.
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It's not a bad thing but the AD needs to guide him to needed changes. Ultimately the AD is responsible for the health of the athletics programs at the University....
 
#44
#44
Vol4gzus said:
Help me here as he has "mismanaged quarterbacks since he's gotten here". I'm open to your enlightenment on this alleged faux pas with qb's. We weren't blinded by vandee or clemp n son. Played good in both. Had Darnell Wright at Lt and Cooper Mays at center as you might recall. Blocking can go a long way in assisting a qb in play execution. Just saying...
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Okay let’s start with 2021 and his insistence on playing Melton over Hooker. He lucked himself into Hooker. Then, knowing he signing Nico, he pigeonholed himself into the binary option of Nico or Melton. I know the brain trust on the board seems to believe that a walk-on might be able to play but, truthfully, he should have signed one of the many QBs in the portal this last offseason for competition for Melton. No one wants Nico to play this year. Not even Hepuel. There, you’ve been enlightened, kemo sabe.
 
#45
#45
I can see no FB explanation why Hadden still starts and the fact that Hype stated there was poor technique and tackling by the DB's Sat. And 3 of those starting DB's are Sr's. That's 3 yrs under Martinez with freshman mistakes still happening by Sr's. Question: is loyalty coming into play here by Hype with him? Maybe?
 
#46
#46
VOLfrombama said:
I agree about the off the field discipline, but his on field discipline leaves a lot to be desired.

Currently the Vols are ties with Colorado for 107th in fewest penalty yards per game. They are second only to Arkansas in the SEC, with 24 penalties for 202 yards or 66.7 per game.

That’s the type of discipline that I question.
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I would submit two things. One, the last two games have tilted sharply against UT in terms of bad calls. Think about the WR quick screens over the last couple of weeks. There were two or three BS calls on UT WRs in the APSU game. Then there were 1 or 2 more in the UF game. UT didn't do anything especially egregious... they just got called and the opponent didn't on very similar plays. Hopefully that crap starts to even out or this is going to be a long frustrating year.

Two, the pre-snap penalties are a big problem that he is very obviously frustrated by. The worst part is that it hasn't been the new LG or LT or even RT that much. The two veterans you really had to feel you could count on are responsible for most of it based on memory- Spraggins and Lane.

Spraggins has been one of my favorites since he committed. But he's not playing well. Many are calling for Joe's job... but as much as it pains me to say it, Spraggins should be benched first. He's not blocking well particularly in pass pro and I think he's had numerous false starts. I remember at least two holding calls on him.
 
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#47
#47
bofa25 said:
Okay let’s start with 2021 and his insistence on playing Melton over Hooker. He lucked himself into Hooker.
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MILTON EARNED THE JOB IN PRACTICE. I'm not sure why you guys are so dense about that. It wasn't just Heupel who saw it. There was no debate from ANYONE. Reporters said he ran away with the job. Former players were excited and said he was far ahead of the others. That's why Heupel played him and expected better.

Prove that he "lucked" himself into Hooker. There is no way to know how long he might have stuck with Milton. You want to be critical so you make assumptions. But Milton wasn't severely injured. Had he needed to play the next game he could have. Heupel gave Hooker a shot instead and saw a "gamer".
bofa25 said:
Then, knowing he signing Nico, he pigeonholed himself into the binary option of Nico or Melton.
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Do what? He signed a guy who appears to have elite potential. He inherited a pretty crappy situation at QB. He could have taken a pretty low level portal transfer willing to come in strictly as a back up... but why? Maybe he thinks his walk ons are better than those options?
bofa25 said:
I know the brain trust on the board seems to believe that a walk-on might be able to play but, truthfully, he should have signed one of the many QBs in the portal this last offseason for competition for Melton. No one wants Nico to play this year. Not even Hepuel. There, you’ve been enlightened, kemo sabe.
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Hardly. We just now know your biases. Which portal QB SPECIFICALLY should he have signed? You know that who was chomping at the bit to come in for one year in the hope, not guarantee, of being the starter? Add to that Heupel's O and its demands of the QB. Who wanted to come in a compete with a guy with great talent and a two year head start?
 
#48
#48
Lot of great college football coaches on here. Maybe White should just fire Heupel now and look on here for his replacement.

SMH.
 
#49
#49
sjt18 said:
MILTON EARNED THE JOB IN PRACTICE. I'm not sure why you guys are so dense about that. It wasn't just Heupel who saw it. There was no debate from ANYONE. Reporters said he ran away with the job. Former players were excited and said he was far ahead of the others. That's why Heupel played him and expected better.

Prove that he "lucked" himself into Hooker. There is no way to know how long he might have stuck with Milton. You want to be critical so you make assumptions. But Milton wasn't severely injured. Had he needed to play the next game he could have. Heupel gave Hooker a shot instead and saw a "gamer".

Do what? He signed a guy who appears to have elite potential. He inherited a pretty crappy situation at QB. He could have taken a pretty low level portal transfer willing to come in strictly as a back up... but why? Maybe he thinks his walk ons are better than those options?

Hardly. We just now know your biases. Which portal QB SPECIFICALLY should he have signed? You know that who was chomping at the bit to come in for one year in the hope, not guarantee, of being the starter? Add to that Heupel's O and its demands of the QB. Who wanted to come in a compete with a guy with great talent and a two year head start?
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Clearly, the smart move was to ride with two scholarship quarterbacks and hope for the best.

Melton is like fetch. Heupel keeps trying to make fetch a thing but it just doesn’t work. I love Heupel but Milton is not built to run this offense. I really believe in the system and you know who would have been a perfect fit for the Veer and Shoot? Brenan Armstrong or Devin Leary.
 
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